Podcast Summary

Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Allison Caine, "Restless Ecologies: Climate Change and Socioecological Futures in the Peruvian Highlands" (U Arizona Press, 2025)
Date: February 2, 2026
Host: Caleb Zakrin [B]
Guest: Allison Caine [C], Assistant Professor of Cultural Anthropology, University of Wyoming

The episode centers on anthropologist Allison Caine’s book, “Restless Ecologies,” which explores the impact of climate change and modernization on alpaca herders in the highlands of Peru. Through ethnographic immersion, Caine investigates the ways local people, particularly women, navigate shifting environmental, economic, and social landscapes while maintaining connections to the land, animals, and each other.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Allison’s Path to Anthropology and Peruvian Highlands

• Caine’s Background: Grew up in Maine; first traveled to Ecuador and Peru during college; Fulbright Scholar in Peru; drawn back repeatedly to the Andes.
• Anthropological Methods: Emphasis on “going places, meeting people, hanging out, and really getting to know people.”
  • "That's just... been such a privilege to have that be a part of my life." [02:11]

2. Why Study the Peruvian Highlands? “Writing Climate Change from the Ground Up”

• The region near the Kelccaya Ice Cap is a global center for climate science.
• Caine aimed to understand how people there experience, interpret, and adapt to climate change in their own terms.
  • "My primary motivation for this project was to write climate change from the ground up, right? To go to this place... and to really understand how the people living there see the world and see their world changing..." [03:53]

3. Life in Chilca: Ecology, Animals, and Economic Livelihoods

• Location: Chilca – 14,000 feet above sea level; harsh, dry, high-altitude environment.
• Main Activities: Predominant focus on alpaca herding; also sheep (quick cash), llamas (transport), minimal agriculture (potatoes). International wool market crucial for income.
  • "Sheep: the checking account to the alpaca savings account." [05:24]

4. Central Figures: Concepcion Rojo and the Community of Herders

• Concepcion Rojo: Key interlocutor; matriarch and mentor. Took Caine in, taught her the intricacies of alpaca herding.
  • "She made it sort of her project to turn me into a proper alpaca herder... incredibly generous, knowledgeable, incredible person." [07:16]

5. A Day in the Life: Herding as Culture and Sensory Experience

• Early mornings, intuition about animal needs, coordination with neighbors, balancing herd movement, weaving, and socializing in the pastures.
  • "She would often kind of wake herself up because she has, like, whistled or uttered some sorting command in her sleep... it's so baked into your being up there." [09:20]
• Social but also solitary; women’s networks vital.

6. Human–Animal Relationships: Sensing Climate and Environment

• Herders are deeply attuned to animals’ behavior as indicators of landscape and environmental change.
  • "You can tell a lot by... how the animals are moving... their ears... the sounds that they're making." [12:43]
• Droughts: animals restless, harder to herd—tangible impact of climate change.
  • "That frustration can actually accumulate in your body and make you feel sick... you just see everything start to get really, really tense." [14:48]

7. Gender Dynamics: Women as Primary Herders

• Contrary to expectations, alpaca herding is mainly women’s work in Chilca.
  • "Women are the ones who are taking their animals out... they just have this incredibly deep and robust sense of their herd..." [16:48]

8. Shifting Religious and Spiritual Practices

• Generational and religious change: shift from indigenous/Catholic syncretism to evangelicalism.
• Diminished ritual relations with landscape beings (e.g., mountain spirits), rise of evangelical conceptions of nature.
  • "Fewer people are giving offerings to mountains... now understanding their environmental relationships within the sort of evangelical understanding..." [18:26]

9. Modernization, Land Tenure, and Cash Economy

• Movement from communal herding and land use toward privatized tenure; altered social rhythms, less spontaneous interaction, more time for wage labor and schooling.
  • "People had to... constantly be in contact with one another... with the strains... there's been a shift towards privatized land tenure." [21:07]

10. Generational Tensions and Outmigration

• Elders like Concepcion feel loss of communal ties but support younger generations seeking education and new professions.
  • "People say the work feels a lot lonelier now... but she's enthusiastic about sending her grandchildren to school in the cities, to university." [23:17]
• Some young people return; pride in being herders is still strong, though many diversify livelihoods.
  • "You wouldn't see as much outmigration now as you might expect... there's an interest in doing a variety of different things, but definitely a large resistance, this idea of getting rid of alpacas altogether." [25:05]

11. Feeling the Landscape: Presence, History, Trauma

• Mountains like Asangatte are felt as social beings—deep, lived connection even as practices change.
• Shadow of colonial and hacienda-era violence impacts sense of place and belonging.
  • "You do have this sense of being watched over by them... that recognition of those mountains... it's important to recognize them and to be in relationship with them." [27:10]

12. Political and National Identity

• Despite remoteness, a sense of connection (and sometimes abandonment) to the wider Peruvian nation; radio is a key source of information.
  • "Certainly felt themselves very connected to what else... was happening in Peru." [29:47]

13. Aging and Life Course in the Highlands

• Elders’ experience of aging is entwined with the aging/degradation of landscape and herds.
  • "It was very much a process that the landscape and people were going through together." [31:38]

14. Reflections on Entanglement, Resilience, and Romanticization

• The community’s relationship with the environment is not idyllic but laborious and fraught.
  • "We often romanticize that... In reality, it's incredibly difficult. There's a lot of alterity there..." [33:55]
• Despite severe challenges, the ethos is to “stay with the trouble” (Donna Haraway reference).
  • "No matter what unfolds... people are sticking with it. They're staying with the trouble." [36:36]

15. Wyoming–Peru Connections and Caine’s Ongoing Research

• Noted surprising links: Peruvian herders work in Wyoming sheep ranches.
  • "There are quite a significant number of Peruvian herders here... we've been able to talk about that sort of interesting connection between this place and somewhere else..." [37:48]
• Future research focuses on transnational pastoral connections and the dynamics of sheep/herd cultures in both locations.

16. Ethnographic Practice: Boundaries, Access, and Advice

• Gender impacts access to spaces and stories; respecting community boundaries is essential.
  • "There were definitely members of the community who were not interested in talking to me... I really respected that." [41:26]
• Advice: Embrace discomfort, be patient, honor relationships and boundaries.
  • "The biggest thing is being comfortable with discomfort... sitting with that discomfort and constantly reminding yourself that it's just part of it and that it's temporary is really, really helpful." [43:24]

17. The Reciprocal Gaze: Community Curiosity Toward the Anthropologist

• Community keenly interested in Caine’s American background, cultural practices, even mundane habits.
  • "A lot of the questions were kind of oriented around that, you know, what is your town like? What are people like there? What do they do? Women were always interested in, you know, how old are women when they get married there, how many children do they have?" [45:51]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Writing Climate Change “from the ground up”:
  "To go to this place that generates so much knowledge about our planet and to really understand how the people living there see the world and see their world changing..." – Allison Caine [03:53]

• On Animal-Human Communication:
  "You can tell a lot by, you know, how the animals are moving... These little cues... gave the herders really detailed and robust information about the health of the grasslands, the health of the waterways..." – Allison Caine [12:43]

• On the Landscape as Social and Historical:
  "You do have this sense of being watched over by them... even if many of these practices... are changing, people still feel that there's a relationship there that is worth cultivating." – Allison Caine [27:10]

• On Romanticization:
  "We often romanticize that, right? We're like, oh, how lovely to be living in harmonious entanglement... In reality, it's incredibly difficult. It's really hard work." – Allison Caine [33:55]

• On Adapting to Change:
  "No matter what unfolds... people are sticking with it. They're staying with the trouble..." – Allison Caine [36:36]

• On the Practice of Fieldwork:
  "The biggest thing is being comfortable with discomfort. It can be profoundly uncomfortable to be the new kid somewhere... but the sort of, you know, sitting with that discomfort... is really, really helpful." – Allison Caine [43:24]

Key Timestamps

• [03:53] – Motivation for fieldwork in the Andes and “writing climate change from the ground up.”
• [05:24] – Description of the region, animals, and local economy.
• [07:16] – Introduction to Concepcion Rojo and her impact as mentor.
• [09:20] – A day in the life of a herder; rhythms and sociality.
• [12:43] – Animal-herder attunement and sensing environmental change.
• [16:48] – Gender roles and women’s expertise in alpaca herding.
• [18:26] – Transformation of religious and landscape practices.
• [21:07] – Shift from communal to privatized land tenure.
• [23:17] – Concepcion’s feelings about social and economic changes.
• [25:05] – Youth migration, changing aspirations, and maintaining herding.
• [27:10] – Emotional and historical meaning of the landscape.
• [29:47] – Community’s connection to broader Peruvian society.
• [31:38] – How aging is experienced alongside changes in landscape.
• [33:55] – Reflections on the realities of environmental entanglement.
• [36:36] – Prospects for Chilca’s future: “staying with the trouble.”
• [37:48] – Wyoming–Peru herder connections and future research plans.
• [41:26] – On respect for community boundaries and ethnographic access.
• [43:24] – Advice for those unfamiliar with new places: “Be comfortable with discomfort.”
• [45:51] – Community’s curiosity about the anthropologist.

Tone & Style

The conversation is warm, inquisitive, and deeply respectful. Caine blends evocative storytelling with clear, grounded anthropological analysis, often highlighting the complexities and difficulties beneath seemingly idyllic rural lifestyles.

This summary provides a comprehensive overview of Allison Caine’s New Books Network interview, capturing the core themes, arguments, and personalities that animate “Restless Ecologies: Climate Change and Socioecological Futures in the Peruvian Highlands.”