Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network

Episode: Interview with Amit Varshizky, "The Metaphysics of Race: Science and Faith in the Nazi Worldview"
Host: Amir Engel
Guest: Amit Varshizky
Date: September 19, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode of the New Books Network features a discussion between Amir Engel and historian Amit Varshizky about his book, The Metaphysics of Race: Science and Faith in the Nazi Worldview (Taylor & Francis, 2024). The conversation dives into how Nazi ideology fused scientific language, metaphysical ambition, and religious feeling to create a compelling worldview—a worldview that Varshizky argues addressed deep societal anxieties and desires in interwar Germany, and one that offers enduring lessons for how political myths function today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Take Political Myth Seriously?

• Varshizky anchors his book with a quote from Ernst Cassirer (03:02), emphasizing the need to understand the strengths, not just the absurdities or dangers, of political myths:

  “We should carefully study the origins, the structure, the method, the technique of political myth. We should see the adversary face to face in order to know how to combat him.” — Ernst Cassirer, quoted by Varshizky (02:45)

• Both Engel and Varshizky agree that underestimating the allure of totalitarian ideologies is a grave mistake (05:48).

2. Personal Motivation and Historical Grounding

• Varshizky traces his scholarly motivation to his childhood in Israel, shaped by family Holocaust memories. He seeks to answer the “naive” but urgent question: How could people commit such atrocities? (07:05)

  "I was gripped in a mixture of horror and curiosity. ...How can people be so cruel? ...Most people doing evil deeds do so in the name of good, in the name of justice, in the name of necessity." — Amit Varshizky (09:20)

3. The Concept of the “Metaphysics of Race”

• The book’s title is intentionally provocative: it proposes that the Nazi concept of race was not merely biological, but metaphysical, fusing “science and faith” (10:25).
• Varshizky argues that Nazi biology was not mechanistic or value-neutral. Rather, it was holistic, vitalist, and intended as a ground for meaning, value, and a political worldview (11:51).

  "Nazi intellectuals and scientists understood biology not as a liberal, mechanistic, scientific, naturalistic category, but as something else—holistic, vitalistic, going way beyond mechanistic natural science." — Amit Varshizky (12:32)

4. Science as Meaning-Maker: The Rejection of Mechanistic Biology

• Many interwar German thinkers, not only Nazis, found the “meaninglessness” of mechanistic biology unbearable (16:23).
• Biology became a means to restore value and purpose, offering a “new ground for value making” (18:32).
• The convergence of biology, nationalism, and race: In late 19th-century Germany, nationalism and anthropology interwove, with figures like Ernst Haeckel and Houston Stewart Chamberlain portraying race as the new metaphysical foundation of society (21:44).

5. Chamberlain and Non-Scientific (“Irrational”) Concepts of Race

• Chamberlain rejected the scientific validation of race; for him, race was as self-evident as the perception of color:

  “All I have to do is to open my eyes and see it. The same is true in the case of race.” — Chamberlain, as quoted by Varshizky (24:09)

• For Chamberlain, race was existential and experienced, not an observable scientific category (26:59).

6. The Confluence of Nationalism, Race, and Mental Traits

• German nationalism in the 19th and 20th centuries transformed from a “cultural/linguistic” organic conception to one intensively biological and racial (28:52).
• The shift in anthropology: From describing physical differences to asserting mental and moral traits as heritable, fueling the Nazi racial hierarchy (32:38).

7. The Scientific “Problems” of Race and Racial Typologies

• With Mendelian genetics, scientists could not satisfyingly correlate “mental” and “moral” traits with physical racial features (37:53).
• This scientific impasse drove Nazi thinkers to holistic or “beyond genetics” paradigms, blending science and metaphysics to justify value and hierarchy (39:00).

8. From Academic Debate to State Ideology

• Racial worldviews percolated from academic discourse into broader culture—art, music, politics, language.
• Under the Nazis, these became “official” frameworks and were articulated as a new, holistic “faith in race” (45:06).

  "Race...can only be validated as a kind of existential, intuitive category. That's why he calls it a faith in race." — Amit Varshizky (46:00)

9. Race as Spiritual and Normative Order

• Alfred Rosenberg’s formulation:

  “Soul means race seen from within. And conversely, race is the external expression of a soul. To awaken the racial soul to life, its ultimate values must be recognized. And under their direction, other values must be assigned their organic place in the state, art and religion.” — (47:56)

• The Nazi racial worldview was not only descriptive but also normative—organizing society to “express the inner meaning of our race” (48:51).
• Comparison drawn to Hannah Arendt’s account of totalitarianism as a project of “meaning fulfillment” for both perpetrators and victims, rooted in a cult-like ideology (51:53).

10. Nazism as Religious or Spiritual Phenomenon

• Varshizky argues against the view that Nazism was anti-Christian or anti-religious; rather, it co-opted Protestant language and religious structures, creating a “new political faith” (54:43).

  "They used religious vocabulary, religious reasoning to establish, to articulate their racial worldview... A new conception of religiosity, a new conception of spirituality, which is natural, which is imminent, which is within history, not external to history." — Amit Varshizky (55:01)

• For the Nazis, theology was ultimately anthropological, reflecting the racial “spirit”:

  "Each race has its own God idea... its own conception of the absolute, of the divine, because it comes from the biological predisposition of the race." — Amit Varshizky (57:10)

11. Contemporary Relevance: Political Myth and Identity Today

• Engel and Varshizky highlight parallels to today's return of "organic" conceptions of nationhood, blending religion, ethnicity, and politics—in the U.S., Europe, Israel, India, and beyond (58:59, 60:42).

  "What we experience today is also a certain sense of annihilation, of loss of meaning, of moral decay. And this gives rise to all kinds of authoritarian forms of politics." — Amit Varshizky (61:05)

• Varshizky argues that current liberal societies lack the ability to speak about values, meaning, and justice, ceding ground to powerful populist, mythic narratives (63:53).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Underestimating Myths:
  "We should carefully study the origins, the structure, the method, the technique of political myth.... We should see the adversary face to face in order to know how to combat him." — Ernst Cassirer, read by Engel (02:45)
• On Motivations Behind Atrocity:
  "Most people doing evil deeds do so in the name of good, in the name of justice, in the name of necessity." — Amit Varshizky (09:20)
• On Race and Experience:
  “Like colors, we cannot validate race scientifically… we can validate race only by feeling it, only by experiencing it.” — Amit Varshizky on Chamberlain (26:59)
• On Faith in Race:
  "Race...can only be validated as a kind of existential, intuitive category. That's why he calls it a faith in race." — Amit Varshizky (46:00)
• On Nazi Spirituality:
  "They tried to establish a new conception of religiosity, a new conception of spirituality, which is natural, which is imminent, which is within history." — Amit Varshizky (55:10)
• On Current Relevance:
  "We have to go back to justify philosophically and ethically liberalism because we have to combat very powerful forces now that are threatening the liberal order." — Amit Varshizky (63:37)
• On Liberal Failures:
  "There has been a terrible lack of ability to speak about these things... the right-wing populist movement has been very powerful in offering thoughts and guidance that is useful to people." — Amir Engel (64:20)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:30] — Setting up the main theme and Casirer quote
• [06:21] — Varshizky’s personal background and motivations
• [10:18] — The meanings behind “metaphysics of race” and “science & faith”
• [16:23] — Interwar crisis, cultural pessimism, and the appeal of “holistic biology”
• [21:44] — The roles of Haeckel and Chamberlain; biology as metaphysics
• [24:09] — Chamberlain: Race as existential, non-scientific feeling
• [32:38] — The shift toward inheritable, mental traits in racial science
• [39:00] — The challenge of linking genetics to values/morals in Nazi science
• [45:06] — Transition from academic debate to Nazi state “faith”
• [47:56] — Rosenberg’s articulation of the “racial soul”
• [53:29] — Nazism as substitute religion; co-option of religious language
• [58:51] — Race and religious conceptions (“Each race has its own God idea”)
• [60:42] — Relevance to contemporary nationalism, politics, and liberalism

Tone & Language

The conversation is rigorous but accessible, earnest, and at times emotionally charged—especially when discussing current political parallels. Both speakers balance scholarly analysis with personal engagement, creating a dialogue that is both precise and relatable.

Final Thoughts

Varshizky’s book and this discussion urge listeners to take the meaning-making power of political myth seriously. The Nazi regime, he argues, succeeded not only through terror or pseudoscience, but by answering deep existential and spiritual needs. The warning: Dismissing such myths as merely “ludicrous” leaves societies vulnerable to their renewed appeal.

Concluding Message:
Engel closes by noting that liberal societies must regain the ability to speak about justice, meaning, and values—otherwise, they risk being outflanked by the seductive power of political myth, as Cassirer warned, and as history teaches.