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Amy Landry, "The Ocean of Yoga: A Complete Guide to Living the Teachings, Tradition, and Practice" (Shambhala, 2026)
00:44:16
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the New Books Network. Hello. Welcome back to the New Books Network. I'm your host, Dr. Raj Baltaron. More importantly, I have the pleasure of welcoming to the podcast today Amy Landry, who is author of this brand new Shambhala publication, the Ocean of A Complete Guide to Living the Teachings, Tradition and Practice. Amy, welcome to the podcast.
- [00:24]
B
Thank you. I very much appreciate you having me on the podcast with such an esteemed lineup of previous guests. So, yeah, great honor. Thank you.
- [00:34]
A
Yes, the pleasure is all ours. So you've got to tell us about how you first dipped your tone to this ocean and when you decided to write about it. What's the backstory, however long the gestation may have been? What's the backstory of this?
- [00:48]
B
Yeah.
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A
Wow.
- [00:50]
B
So I think for so long, for many years in mentoring other yoga teachers, but having conversations with fellow students and other teachers in general, there was always this kind of undertone of dissatisfaction in the sense that so many yearn for greater depth and clarity on the path. Quite often I find many people can feel lost and maybe confused or overwhelmed and don't really know where to turn. And funnily enough, we had, on a personal level, myself and my husband and children, we had quite a big personal life change. My husband changed careers, and it meant that we had to move interstate away from family and support. And I just had our second child, and it was just a really big transitional point in time. And in hindsight, interestingly, when I look back at this pivotal period when we moved and it was really challenging, it was very challenging for me at that time. I realized that that moment, which was really the seed of writing this book, because I was forced to stop teaching. I couldn't because we had no support with the kids. My husband was going away a lot for work, and I couldn't be in that relationship with students anymore. And I wanted to find a way that I could stay in creativity and in service to the yoga community. And that's when I started writing this book. And I was writing this book when I was, you know, up awake at night when I was breastfeeding, when I was just suffering so much sleep deprivation. And it was the gem that just gave me so much nourishment and creativity and enrichment in that that time. And what I'm getting to here is that I looked back in hindsight, when the book was complete and realized that I'd just gone through roughly this two and a half year period of Ashta Mashani. So for those listening, it's not the same as, like, Saturn Return or Sadi Sati, but very similar in its essence, where Saturn moves through. So with this period of Ashta Mashani, Saturn moves through the eighth house from the natal moon. And it's known to be a period for really deep transformation, very much bringing unexpected changes and challenges, immense stress, but simultaneously, it fosters resilience and a maturation, forcing personal growth, very much testing our patience. And those who I have had conversations with, who are Jyotishes, they've said to me, this book is that gem or that jewel that has come out of that darkness of that time, that immense strain and stress. So it fueled me in writing it, knowing that it was a book that was going to fuel the yoga community. And it sort of feels, in so many ways, completely divinely guided and aligned, which might seem like a very cliche thing to say, but I do wholeheartedly mean that. Yeah.
- [03:43]
A
Well, thank you for sharing a bit of that backstory. All too often we are faced with pressures of various sorts, and depending on capacity and situation, sometimes we take a turn for the worse, and often we are fortunate enough to turn coal into diamond, so to speak, and harness that, you know, that crucible experience. So it's. It's really interesting that that came out of what you would describe as a transformative period of your life insofar as you were undergoing a transformation, which facilitated you presenting yoga really as a transformation or different. Various types of transformation or transformative, to say the least. Do you want to say a little bit about. Yeah. Without asking too much of a leading question, how would you. How would you qualify a response that. The notion that yoga might be transformative.
- [04:39]
B
That is a big question, Raj. I mean, it's. I mean, you could take that into so many different directions, and that's in some hand, in some way, the beauty of yoga, that there is a degree of subjectivity. And simultaneously, I think there is a danger in that as well, in terms of our putting our own bias and interpretations on what it means for anything to be transformative or whatever yoga is to be to someone. But I do feel that in the way that yoga is experienced primarily across the world today, it is transformative, but it's still limited in that nature. You know, I think it takes us only so far. And hence, that is why I find, just more often than not, people are kind of like, and what now? And what now? Right. We go through these waves and seasons of practice and motivation and inspiration, and that fluctuates very much. And I think that that's because quite often it's not grounded in something that nourishes the spirit. And that is where the potency of yoga in terms of its transformative nature definitely is anchored. And it can look different for all because you know this and so many listeners, I'm sure yoga is this vast spectrum and so it's not going to look the same for everybody, but it holds this great potential for us, for those who are driven, I think fundamentally driven to seek out something beyond the body and beyond this sort of mainstream surface level. I'm not sure if that's the right answer to your question, but that's sort of my sense for yoga as a transformative, let's say, path, if you want to say that yoga is a path, depending on your definition, of course.
- [06:29]
A
Yeah, I mean there's lots there and it's really the open ended questions are just for you to take it as you will. There's no particular answer that I had in mind. But I love what you say about the extent to which everybody will have their own subjective experience or transformations on one level. And for example, if, you know, I do a lot of teaching and maybe coaching with folks and they always have their transformations and the specific contents of their transformation will be utterly unique in a sense. And yet what you talk about, you know, the scaffolding or you say the grounding, so there'll be elements to the grounding that will facilitate that across the board. And I think part of what your book is doing is really is really laying out the ways in which the various yogas have been geared toward transformations and the various scaffolding and the various schools of thought and systems that have really facilitated that in a way that maybe the banyan sort of transplanted with up the soil and it may not thrive as well, if that makes sense.
- [07:32]
B
Yeah, you know, I'm going to sound like a hypocrite because I think it's really important to. If we're seeking sincere depth and transformation on the path, I think it's very important to have the clarity and perhaps the maturity to understand that we can't know it all and we can't pursue it all. And so therefore it is more powerful and effective and potent to really focus or hone our attention in our own individual direction on the path. Whether or not that's through a specific tradition or an alignment with, let's say a Darshana or a philosophical school or system, lineage, et cetera, or set of techniques, yet simultaneously, and this book actually aims to in some sense go wide rather than deep. And that might seem very Hypocritical, because my belief is to go deep and to kind of focus your attention for that potency. And yet I feel like that is very difficult to do when you don't have a solid breadth of grounding of knowledge. Because we don't then have the. Perhaps the faith or the confidence or the trust in going this one direction or following that teacher or following that tradition or whatever that's going to look like. And so the book aims to kind of go wide in a sense, which I think is especially important for people that are born outside of, let's say, the cultural context or the cultural heritage of yoga, because that in itself is an incredible foundation that we don't necessarily get. And so there's often these aspects of yoga that are so beautifully embedded into the culture and the heritage of yoga that we are not connected to or exposed to. And that can be a really. Can create a weak foundation to have that resilience and that confidence and that trust in moving in one direction, being completely committed to one path, if you will. Does that make sense?
- [09:39]
A
Yeah, I think it's both. I think that there has to be sort of on the course of your level, there has to be a breath, so we know the lay of the land. I mean, we're not going to dive into an ocean we don't understand or that we've seen other people dive into, or there may be different diving cultures. I think certainly you could talk about the ways in which the kinds of breath that you advocate. I think that the difference I feel is that, not that you're confining, you're actually extending the buffet. You're extending knowledge of the various avenues and manifestations of yoga. But I suspect there are also that all of those are potential apertures for people to kind of dip in, to dip into whatever may resonate with them. So I think it's breath and depth, but I think it's the. I think, you know, and then. No, I. I don't want to speak for you. You're here. But my sense is that you're advocating the awareness of the breath so as to make an informed decision on a path. The depth.
- [10:44]
B
Yeah, completely. And I think that we can only have depth when we have, as I said before, that foundation of breadth and awareness which brings context for what we're doing. And that context, and even just something as looking at having a solid understanding of the historical timeline of developments of yoga, gives us a real grounding to pursue our path with greater integrity and reverence and therefore trust in the path. And trust in the teachings. And I think that, you know, for many of us, it's. We can be really lacking in that grounded foundation or even the foundation of knowing the source of what it is that we're studying. Where does it come from? Who does it come from? How did it look in the past, historically speaking, or within the culture, the cultural framework? And this is, I think, something that people are feeling ready for and keen to learn, but maybe don't know where to turn to have that kind of awareness of experience. So, yeah, you're precisely right. And I think we have this. When we can hold this vision of the wide ocean or the spectrum, it enables us to feel steady in our choice and in our direction, knowing that you can pivot at any time, of course. But my hope anyway, in writing the book is that it provides that degree of solace, of confidence and a bit more certainty for people reading it.
- [12:10]
A
So give us a little bit of the specifics or the data, what you look at in the book in terms of providing that context of certainty. What are some of the avenues that. That folks can learn about in the book?
- [12:22]
B
Sure. Well, interestingly, I've just been working on the free pre order bonus for the book, which will be available very shortly. And as these things quite synchronistically tend to unfold, just as the book itself is in five parts, the pre order bonus is also in five parts. And it dawned on me that really the five chapters or segments of the book could actually be overlaid with themes of the five elements from the gross, literally from the gross to the more subtle, in that sort of sequential order, which was kind of in some sense really reaffirming or reassuring how important that this work is. So, for example, the first part of the book, as we've just touched on now, is very much associated with this grounding. So the earth into history, into culture, giving that context for the practice, and I guess placing also the influence of teachers and teachings and text within that kind of perspective of the timeline. So I think that that is something that is very much missing. And so we're pointing sort of backwards to give us that grounding and that foundation to ensure that we're engaging in our yoga pursuits with greater integrity and awareness, which was a really fun aspect of the book for me. It was the first part of the book that I wrote, something that I was personally just very interested in at the time and still continue to be so. And then yet you go to the opposite end of the book, into chapter five, and this chapter pertains to Sanskrit and sound and silence and Shastra as well, which is kind of correlating to weaving in the themes of the space element or Akasha, the most subtle of the five elements, where we find ourselves much, you know, closer to dissolving into the source of that which all manifest creation has sprung from. So kind of going on this almost in some sense unintentional systematic journey through the book, and it certainly covers quite a bit, in some sense over a couple of hundred pages. So we have chapter two that really brings the reader into greater clarity around the subtle yogic anatomy and point to how the knowledge of this can provide that immense transformation in terms of how we approach the more tangible techniques and practices. We place so much heavy emphasis on Western anatomy and physiology, which, of course, it has an important place in our world today. I'm not diminishing it in any way, but I think that we have notably neglected an understanding of this yogic, you could say, anatomical framework that has been provided to us through yoga, also through Ayurveda, although Ayurveda provides a slightly different perspective in terms of understanding the body in the context of that system or that science. And then the third chapter, which is the middle of the book, you could say the jewel of the book, it really points toward not only the various and diverse traditions, paths of yoga, but also considerations and reflections on the role of the guru, which can bring up a lot of conflict, I think, in present day yoga land at the moment, but also lineage and what it means to be anchored in sadhana and to be a steward of yoga. And I thought it was really imperative to also speak not only to the more typical paths of yoga, you know, Jnana Yoga, Bhakti yoga, Karma yoga, et cetera, but also speak, give some space to delving into or unpacking the many common mainstream styles of postural yoga. And I did this to not only create clarity on their differentiation, but also to highlight their similarities and provide some indication as to the source of these modern day applications to yoga postures. I thought that this would be really helpful for both students and teachers alike to sort of, in some sense connect the dots or at least understand the majority of points of influence, whether that's a person or a tradition as such. And then chapter four is this very much inwardly oriented framework. You could say it's sort of an expanded version of the common eight limbed path that we associate to classical yoga or Patanjali. Most commonly. There is, of course, the exploration of asana, not in terms of what, you know, you might expect a yoga book to be. There's no pictures, there's no technical instruction. It's this exploration of understanding asana, you know, what does that even mean? And unpacking that and therefore weaving into this relationship with the 108 Karana and to the idea of vyama, so this exercise based practice and so forth, you know, some of them in this whole section of the book, some of the techniques speak to different subtle techniques or the lesser known techniques of the Hatha tradition. And then moving along, of course, we have the typical pranayama, pratyahara and so forth. But interwoven with that is sort of sitting mantra and yoga nidra and bandha and mudra, excuse me. And these all sit into that framework. So you can visually kind of digest this pathway from the more external, outwardly oriented techniques and then follow that into a more just clear, inwardly focused path. And even giving time to unpacking these various types of samadhi. And how does that relate to other concepts like moksha and Kaivalya and Nirvana and so forth? Because I think for most yoga practitioners out there, we hear of all these terms, but how do we hold them all together in the same space or the same approach to our path, like how and where do they all sit and where do these kind of themes and teachings come from and how do they intersect together or not? Yeah, and again then, of course, as I mentioned, Chapter 5 speaks to Sanskrit sound Shastra. But importantly, I will note there that my intent for this last part of the book was to not only shed light on the more commonly known texts like Bhagavad Gita, the Hatha Pradipika and so forth, but also to give space and voice to other texts that might be pertinent, like the Yoga Vasishta and so forth, Because I feel like they have a lot of potency. And maybe outside of lineage, outside of Sampradaya and outside of maybe academia, even these books don't get a lot of attention. They're not spoken to on teacher trainings. And thereby so many practitioners around the world lose the gift of having time with these texts and receiving the nectar from each of these. And many of these texts actually, in my opinion at least, might even be more pertinent to the path for the average yoga teacher and practitioner. So, yeah, so that's probably speaking to sort of the framework of the book in a very expanded sense, but you can see that it's, it very much aims to allude to that ocean. Of course, no book can be complete on yoga, truly, but the intent is there anyway to serve in that way.
- [19:59]
A
Yeah, it's beautiful.
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B
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- [20:31]
A
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- [20:49]
B
So if you've been living in the
- [20:50]
A
White can branch out. Ultra's got a flavor for every vibe and every single1. Is zero sugar tap the banner to learn more and certainly there are a great number of yoga teachers. Yoga practitioners show up at Hinduism School. It's nothing that I do to to target yoga people in particular. It's just that there are a number of people in the yoga world who would love to learn about the mythological, spiritual, philosophical sort of traditions associated with the postures. And I ended up specifically at Therapy House designing a course called Yoga Wisdom where we looked at Patanjali in particular. And I would agree 100% that yoga sutras is not the best source for modern yoga practitioners. It's not written for householders, certainly not written for modern householders. There's a lot that is quite useful, quite translatable, and there's a lot that is completely irrelevant, the ways in which and the situations from which the vast majority of people engage them. And sort of taught many yoga teacher trainings without it really, you know, it's sort of this, this instinct of itself is the go to because that's yoga sutras. But yes, whether it's mythological texts, whether it's the Bhagavad Gita, whether it's yoga Vasishta, there. There are other texts that really flesh out for the consciousness how the sutras can be applied in an embodied sense. Happen to be doing a talk shortly for a Vedanta group. I think that's a YouTube interview at some point soon and it's a Vedanta group and I'm specifically drawing on some Stories to show how Vedanta is embodied in the story of these various ages. And so I couldn't agree more that the fleshing out needed. So there's so many interesting things about what you say and what you lay out, other than the actual topics, which are obviously interesting, whether mudras or vandas or the history of the philosophy. But talk, talk to me or talk to us about this gap. I mean, so this knowledge was preserved for a very long time in lineages, you know, student teacher lineages. And the knowledge currently functions beyond that dynamic. So then what would you. Could you say more about that or more about, you know, that situation or a remedy if it's needed, or the. Say more about that, if you don't mind.
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B
Okay, well, hopefully I'm interpreting your sort of ruminations here correctly or appropriately maybe. Hopefully we're on the same page. But I would say that unfortunately, due to this proliferation of mainstream yoga, let's just call it that, and thereby commodification, commercialization, these conversations that are fairly commonplace these days, it has actually kind of widened the gap. It continues to widen this gap between obviously what the book aims to uphold and. Or uplift. And that is the broader spectrum of yoga compared to that, which is. I sometimes resist saying surface level because it could be conceived as if I'm. There's a negative tone to that, but it's not intended. It's like, you know, you've got the surface level of the ocean and here it is, you can see the waves on the top and then like what's beneath the surface. So that's kind of my intent when I say surface level there. And I think that even though there is this almost empowering intent to drive the. I wouldn't say it's a rebellion against, but this movement away from lineage, this movement away from a relationship to the teacher or to the guru, there is a sort of strong desire to claim innovation. And all these things are parts of the development of yoga. But there is also a detriment to that. And I understand that just as an example, many gurus have fallen from grace. It continues to happen. And because of that, there is a natural sort of resistance to that relationship or to being engaged in a genuine lineage or sampradaya. And I think because of that, that's another reason why there is this gap. There is this. There is a longing and there is a lacking, but we are not able to close that gap for that reason. And others, of course, and I think what I witness in the yoga community is that so many people Consider, and many people also actually do this. They go and spend thousands of dollars on a teacher training simply to gain more knowledge, not because they have any desire to teach yoga. And they are the folks that I really hope this book will serve, but it would also serve those that have spent thousands of dollars on a teacher training. And they've walked away feeling quite underwhelmed, like it just didn't give them what they were hoping for. Or maybe they feel overwhelmed with all the information because it lacked integration. That is also very commonplace as well. And then also for teachers that are facilitating 200 hour trainings because they are pumping out this proliferation of yoga teachers, and yet trainings are extraordinarily basic, let's say. And I think that that is problematic, if I'm completely honest with you. And so I think that's where this kind of hole is, that's this void for so many people is being created through these different sort of scenarios. And so that's why I wrote this book, really, if I'm honest, it's the book I wish existed when I first started practicing. And I was always surprised to think it still didn't exist to this day. I mean, there's other books that I found that are similar in their structure and intent, but they might only specifically focus on the Hatha Yoga tradition rather than this sort of more zoomed out kind of perspective or lens. So I'm not sure, Raj, if that really answers, that was just your thoughts and ruminations were just seeding what I just shared with you.
- [27:07]
A
But yeah, it's always a scenic view. I always respond live. Obviously I'm familiar with the book. I look at all the bits before the interviews. And in this case, for those of you listening, I may or may not have written the foreword for this book. So I'm fairly familiar with the book. But nevertheless, you know, I do my, my shtick of asking these, you know, seemingly straightforward questions, the most difficult questions to answer about what's this book about? So what's yoga? So what's this ocean? So what are the waves? And so I just, I don't have any particular answer in mind. It's just abundantly clear to me that the niche, the gap that you're filling is related in some way, shape or form, without taking the position on the mire entirely to the gap, the current gap. Anyone who's experienced that dynamic recognizes its power. And if I wanted to be a great chef or a great whatever, I would need to at some point cultivate a relationship with some of that knowledge. Hopefully someone whom I trusted, who had the skill and integrity not to abuse the relationship. And so that's, that's obviously one of the cornerstones of the human experience, particularly with knowledge transmission of various kinds, sacred or secular. And so it's, it's fascinating to me that so many quote, unquote, gurus have fallen, but that's a large percentage of the public gurus, which are a tiny percentage of the gurus, even if we count them as actual gurus. I know at least a dozen holy baked individuals. Their names will never appear in print. They won't. They. They. So I'm not just, I'm not saying necessarily that an individual cannot withstand the pressures of meaning, fame. And perhaps there's something corrosive about that, or at least something perhaps. What I mean to say is that one who has experienced an authentic relationship with a teacher, even a grade school teacher, a college professor, a spiritual teacher, yoga teacher, knows how important, how powerful it is. And in the absence of that, then we have to create a community or to create resources to create something to fill the gap of sharing that context. Because the ocean you're talking about, to my mind, is the context of the asanas. It's this vast context. And how can the YTT teacher share something he or she never learned and isn't even considered so off the radar that so many people sense there's more and they suspect there's more and they. And they show up. I'm telling you, the Indian wisdom school is filled with such individuals, with zero targeting of such individuals, just people looking for wisdom traditions or continuing studies. And I think it's fascinating. I don't think it's. I think the traditional parampara has existed for quite some time. Paramparas and will continue to exist, but I think that certainly modification is in the work that I'm doing, the work that you're doing, the work that others are doing, because without a riverbed, how does the river flow? And what is the riverbed? What is the context? What is that support for the transmission? And I feel that that's what your book is perhaps trying to respond to some level.
- [30:24]
B
Yeah, Raj, beautiful. Yeah, I completely. You get it. And, and it is because in some sense there are many folks out there that have not relinquished the idea of guru and lineage, but they haven't perhaps yet had that great boon and blessing to find their guru or what have you. And so in some sense, as well, this book aims to provide a little bit of solace to maybe just fill that void or tend to that longing. And I also wanted to say as well, even though I mentioned earlier that I was hoping that this book would very much be something that I wish existed long ago. I want to be really clear. The book is not about me. It hasn't got any personal stories or anything. It's not personal in any way. And that was very, very intentional because I really try in my work to remain as neutral as possible. And I don't mean neutral as in the accusations that people can get for being neutral is like complicit or fence sitting in present day political conversations and all that sort of stuff. But my point is that I hope it highlights the distinct interconnectedness of culture and traditions and teachings that transcend trends. And when I say trends, I don't mean just trends in terms of like styles of postural yoga or you know, fusions of yoga with this and that, but I also mean political trends and societal trends and, and simultaneously. One thing I will say personally is that I really enjoy reading, studying, academic work on yoga, but I am not, I am definitely not. I'm not an academic. And I strongly believe there is a growing percentage of people that in the yoga community around the world who are there hungry for that high level of knowledge that could be considered scholarly, but that's often in an accessible way that can be assimilated and integrated more easily for those who are anchored in practice, not just an intellectual path. And in some sense I hope that that is what this book can also provide. And I'm running a 300 hour training at the moment for existing teachers, which is in part inspired by writing this book. And for so long I thought I'd have to offer a 200 hour. And I never wanted to because I didn't want to add to the proliferation of yoga teachers. I wanted to actually add to nurturing and serving and supporting and uplifting the knowledge and experience and wisdom within existing teachers. And so that's where the training came about. And on one of the live calls, you know, one of the women on my training, she said to me, amy, I've come and come to your work because I feel like you're always a neutral space. You hold a neutral space. I come to your social media, I come to this, I come to that, and I find solace in that. And I think that's really important in yoga landscape right now. And, and it doesn't mean I don't have my own personal opinions and preferences, but my goal is to always in some sense, rise above that, to hold a blank space where People can come and receive yoga and deepen their knowledge and their experience and refine their path and their practice and what they're doing and how they're serving and uplifting the yoga tradition at large, let's say, without sort of superimposing my opinions or bias or trends. So I just wanted to add that because I think that that is really important and some people might criticize me for doing that, but I also know that there will be many people who that will resonate with, and that's who this book is definitely written for.
- [34:02]
A
Well, absolutely. It's sort of. I'm angsting about a Devi Maatmia translation because of the grammar points, who may not read charitably my renderings for the, for the in the interested English cadence and meter and pitch and flow, liberties being taken. And, you know, the uncharitable reader is the one who might, you know, this guy doesn't know Sanskrit, may not realize what's happening here. But, you know, of all people, though, Wendy Doniger, I had a. I think for my 400th podcast, Wendy Doniger was on and she, she, she. And she's obviously, she can be, she's brilliant. She could be quite a polarizing figure at times. And but she said to me, like, I always imagine a charitable reader, I always imagine a reader who will get what I'm trying to say, will appreciate it. It doesn't mean that our work is beyond critique. Of course not. I wrote a book called the Stories behind the Poses just to share the mythological namesakes of the posture. Someone like, you know, their postures named after sages, for example. And why would that be? I'm not taking a position on the origins or antiquity of yoga. That's not what the book is about at all. It's not saying that the postures are as old as the it's not saying that they were invented, you know, by some gymnast last Tuesday. It's not saying either because it's that's not what the the book is showing the ways in which the stories encode a state of consciousness so that the listener hearer can go on and the ways in which that state may well map onto something of the namesake of the posture. And so no one's work is perfect, but you are speaking to the people who are looking for a variety of reasons they're looking for how do I I need a bit of a tour guide on on the. More I just arrived this wonderful Indian city and it's dizzying and beautiful. I need a bit of a tour Guide. I just came in my yoga class and like, where's the temple and what are they doing and what is that and what's going on? You're giving them a bit of context, which is great. And then people can decide if they want to take that context as the platform for more knowledge expansion for spiritual evolution. But if they don't even know the context, I mean, even people who are very physique oriented, they all know or sense that there's so much more going on here, both experientially, culturally, historically and philosophically that I'm not aware of. But they all know that there's more. And for the people who are looking for that more, the book fills the gap for the people who can access that more. And there has to be space for everyone. I'm teaching an online course at the New Muslim School. It's both the colonialist ideologues need to be critiqued as well as the Hindu national. It's, it's, it's polarization. We have to find space for a different perspective. And as soon as you're like, oh no, this is the only way, then, then it's problematic. And I think what the book does is it's trying just to tease on you saying there's nothing about you in the book. It's not an autobiography of a yogi. It is, it's something different, but it's sort of, it's, it's, it's giving folks the lay of the land of sort of what exists the various lanes of yoga land. And I think they can delve deeper if they wish.
- [37:36]
B
Right? Yeah, absolutely. And just on what you were saying there, I think backtracking a little bit, I think that's why so many people yearn to go to India. You know, once they've got to a certain point on their path, they go, right, I've got to go back to this geographical source of, you know, these wisdom teachings. And then, you know, they have the same thing can happen again like it does in Yogaland outside of India. It's like they go and they have an experience in it. And that's why, you know, folks like you and I take groups to India because you want them to have that, that appropriate guidance so that they can very much steepen an experience that enriches their understanding and path of yoga. Because that's not always the case when you go to India. Of course. Yeah, then that's a whole other conversation altogether. But yeah, exactly what you said resonates deeply, for sure.
- [38:29]
A
Yeah. So fantastic. So Is there anything else about the book in particular or the enterprise in general you'd like us to touch on before we close? I'm sure there's. I get the sense we can talk for five hours quite comfortably, but Mr. Sang Kelsey, you hope you touch on before we close.
- [38:49]
B
Look, not that's compelling me in this moment. I would probably just reaffirm that the book is both for serving practitioners of yoga and also those who have chosen to actively teach yoga. There is a section on the book that speaks to teaching and on being a steward of yoga. And I think that that's an important thing to remember, that we are stewards of something. It's not that we can see ourselves as separate and in somehow, in some way trying to control how yoga is. I think it's more important to, excuse me, I should say how yoga, how we present yoga, how it seemingly is. Right. We actually have to recognize that we need to be a bit more reflective and humble in representing and uplifting yoga. And also in saying all of that, I want to acknowledge that for many people, that can feel challenging because they are almost in a cycle of engaging in and let's say, representing and sharing yoga in a certain way, especially people who are teaching within a studio context and a very challenge between the balance of their livelihood and keeping the work and with not being able to teach what they really want to share and teach. And I think that there is space for you to share with students and within studio environments yoga in its broader spectrum, even if it doesn't feel like it. But we have to remember that, yes, we need to tend to ourselves, take care of ourselves and our livelihoods and so forth, while simultaneously we have to remember our duty in uplifting, again, the ocean of yoga and finding a way to be able to do that, even if it's just small, subtle ways and things that you can weave in into your community, into your online sharing, into your teaching, and your discussions and conversations with other teachers, students, studio owners, because very slowly that will have a ripple effect outward and you just see it as planting seeds. There's a lot of pressure to conform, I think, in mainstream yoga land. And it can be very difficult to step out of that. And that's where you find solace in relating to people and to work, such as you, Raj, and your work, your book, your courses, your trainings and retreats and so forth. There are teachers and people out there that have the knowledge and the respect and the reverence for yoga, and it's just a matter of staying steady in seeking those people and those resources out. So I just wanted to close with that.
- [41:30]
A
Well, that is a lovely thought upon which to close. Thank you very much for bringing on the podcast today.
- [41:34]
B
Thank you so much, Raj. Always a pleasure.
- [41:36]
A
Always a pleasure indeed. For those of you listening, you might be intrigued to learn what the more beyond the postures might be in this yoga ocean. Perhaps you are feeling a bit overwhelmed, so you may want to take a little guided tour of the oceans for the publication the Ocean of Yoga A Complete Guide to Living the Teachings, Tradition and Practice. Brand new Shambhala Publications work by Amy Landry. Until next time, keep listening, keep well, keep reading and keep contemplating this little thing called yoga.