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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the New Books Network. To our viewers and listeners around the world, it gives me a great joy and passion to have our second interview with Stephen. Steve Fraser. Not Frazier, who's in my mind the CEO or the rabbi. The chief honcho of Kidlit. Senior literary agent at Jennifer Di Chiara. A swell person and one of the most giving and generous people not only in children's literature, but that I've ever met in my life. And I didn't get a full answer last time, so maybe Steve will get a better answer this time. So welcome to the New Books Network. I'm Mel Rosenberg. I am the host of the Children's Literature Channel. And I get to interview wonderful people whom I love. Steve, it's great to see you again. Last time we met, we were having hot chocolate in New York.
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B
Yes. At one of my favorite places.
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A
You're allowed to name it. I can't remember the name.
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B
Angelina. Paris. It was interesting because the original Angelina opened in Paris in 1923. 3. And then it made its way to New York, and we're grateful that it did.
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A
And we had traditional hot chocolate and madeleine biscuits.
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B
Yes, and madeleines.
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A
Yes. In honor of Proust and so on. So, Steve, should I call you Steve or Steven?
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B
Because Steve is good.
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A
Okay. Because, like, we're beyond the, you know, in New York several times, and we could be informal. So you promised me today to waive a few of the recent books that you've sold, and now's the first opportunity to do so.
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B
Okay. Well, first of all, I think we have to mention this book, Emily Sa ador, by a very famous writer, Mel Rosenberg. It's absolutely delightful. And so this is the first book we have to mention. Okay.
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A
And I should say that you gave me some good advice in writing that book. You didn't take it. Right. You liked it. And one of the things that you urged me to do is to turn it into a fantasy. And I don't know whether ever I told you, but I tried. I truly failed.
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B
Yes. Well, yes. Okay.
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A
Thank you. Thank you for that.
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B
My pleasure. Okay, so the second book came out in January, and I think you've interviewed the author, Illustrator. It's Crouton by Christina Lombardi. Now, this isn't the book cover, but she did this for me as a little present. Wow. This is Crouton, the cat who adopts a child. It's a pet adoption story, but it's the pet who adopts the human. You know, it's one of these books that as soon as I saw it, I knew it was going to be a bestseller. I, I, number one, I knew I could sell it. Number two, I knew it'd be a bestseller. And I did sell it. And it is doing very, very well. And so I'm very proud of that.
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A
I should tell you. And I told Kristen also that the week I was in New York for my book launch, everywhere I went, I saw her book.
- [03:28]
B
Yes, it's everywhere, which is a good sign. Agents are not supposed to do this, but like, when you go to a bookstore and you see one of your client's books, rumor has it that some agents put the book face out on the shelf so everyone will see it. So I'm not admitting that I do it, but I have heard that some agents do this.
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A
Yes. Whose initials are S.F. for example.
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B
Yes. Who shall remain nameless. Okay, now the second book came out this week.
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A
Nameless. Nameless and Shameless.
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B
Nameless and shameless, absolutely. So another book I want to mention came out this week. It's called the Shrew Detective. It's by Margy Preuss. It's a chapter book published by Abrams, and this book has already gotten four starred reviews, and it's been at all the bookstores, Face out on the shelf, interestingly, in the same way that the Crouton was. But really, this is a delightful chapter book, and it's actually going to be a series. There's another one coming out next year. This is the Case of the Pilfered Pearls. So it's a mystery. A little shrew who's a little teeny, tiny mouse, like, creature solves mysteries in the woodlands. So anyway, I highly recommend it, but I'm very excited. This book just came out.
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A
That's fantastic.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So I have a million gazillion questions for you. The, the first is, why do people call you Stephen Frazier?
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B
You know, I don't know. There was a famous wrestler or boxer named by Frazier who was a black man and he spelled the name differently. But maybe people think I'm, you know, fighting for to get books published so they make a connection. I don't know. Fraser is actually, is a good Scottish name. So if you know anything about the Scots, Fraserborough is in the north of Scotland. They put them far away so they couldn't hurt anybody. It's a very rambunctious crowd.
- [05:32]
A
So, Steve, we tried to get to the bottom of why you are such a generous person. Last time we were on the air together, we mentioned that you see between 12 and 20,000 submissions a year. You're open to submissions. You get between 30 and 50 a day. Everybody else can do the math. And you answer most of the emails that you get?
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B
I answer everyone. I try to do a day of. But sometimes I get kind of ahead of myself. But no, I answer everybody. And if someone doesn't get an answer, they can always email me back because it just means it got buried somehow. And I try to say something helpful. I mean, I would say 90% of what I get I'm not interested in, but 100% I will try to say something unless it's absolutely in left field and it's something I wouldn't in a million years be interested in. Then I just say thank you. It's really not for me, you know, thanks for.
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A
Okay, this is a day of coming clean, Steve. So give me an example of a letter like that that you won't answer.
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B
Well, for instance, if someone doesn't even say my name, if someone says, to whom it may concern, a Dear Agent, I actually delete those because I feel as though you have to make some effort to do a bit of research and at least know my name or the agency's name. If I get something that's really, like a book of military history or, I don't know, something that's really not what I do, then I'll just say, oh, thank you very much. But it's not for me. I. But really, for most submissions, I do try to say something useful like, you know, good use of language or a great title or, you know, good idea needs more work. But, you know, I try to say
- [07:23]
A
something, you know, because I submitted for years and years and I only recently found a agents and a book deal. I submitted to you several times, and you were always so kind, and we had multiple emails. And I think that you are the only one of hundreds of submissions that have that kind of patience for me. And everybody else I speak to says, oh, Stephen, yes, he gave me great advice. He answered me, wow, there's nobody like you out there.
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B
That's. Face it, I don't know if that's true. I mean, I'm hoping as someone who
- [08:03]
A
was in the trenches for almost a decade, I can. That it's true. There is nobody like you. You explain why that is.
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B
Well, you know, when I was at Highlights for Children, my very first job in publishing, we would get 200 manuscripts a week, and every editor, there were eight of us, every editor would read everything. So I got so I could read like a sentence and already know if someone is a writer that I want to work with or if, you know, if someone has a narrative skill. So I'm actually, I've gotten really good at reading really quickly and be able to judge right away, you know, if there's potential there. And maybe not even for me, but just potential as a writer. So. And I always want to be supportive of writers because I think, you know, it's a very lonely business sitting in your room writing. And I think that if you can throw a lifeline, I think it's always a useful thing. And I have an interesting story. A number of years ago, I went to a writers conference, and this man came up to me, this older man, and he said, you know, years ago, I got a rejection letter from an editor, but it was actually really positive. And he said, you know, it's the one thing that's kept me going all these years. And then the next breath, he said, and you're the one who wrote the letter.
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A
Wow. From your HarperCollins days?
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B
Well, actually, even way before then, like 40 years ago. So I was thinking, oh, thank God I said something nice. But then I thought, you know, isn't it interesting that just saying a word of encouragement can really make a difference in a writer's life? So I've always tried to be that person, to be, you know, to have a word of encouragement, because it really can have an effect. And a couple years ago, I started a. A encouragement fund for writers. We give a. We give three grants a year of $2,000 each. It's through SCBWI, this society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators.
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A
But who is we?
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B
Scbwi. So it's the Society of Children, Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, and I fund this grant for writers. But it came about because of that man who had said he had been encouraged. Really? Years ago. Yeah.
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A
That's fantastic. But, I mean, you are one of a kind. Let's now discuss something that you don't always like to talk about, which is your leaving of HarperCollins. Unless you want to tell even better stories.
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B
Oh, wow. I mean, I'd have to tell you over a long lunch the full story, you know.
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A
Okay. I asked you to prepare a few stories. You can choose your own, you know.
- [10:52]
B
No, no, no. This is fine. So when I was at HarperCollins, I mean, there's some publish, like the big five, particularly, I would say Harper Collins at the top, but then Simon and Schuster, you know, Little Brown. They're very corporate. And for instance, I remember going into an editorial meeting with an editor, Joanna Kotler, who had superb taste all her books won awards. She came in with what was gonna be the final book by William Steig, distinguished picture book writer, illustrator, also a novelist. And so she presented this book. The publisher said, joanna, why do we have to publish this book? I thought she was going to faint. I mean, William Steig, every book he does is a bestseller. He wins. He's won the, you know, the Caldecott Newbery honor. So that tells you the climate at HarperCollins 20 something years ago. It was very, very bottom line oriented, very commercial. They only want to publish bestsellers, quote, unquote.
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A
You said that your job was to sell two and a half million dollars of books.
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B
Yes.
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A
That sounds like selling radishes.
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B
I know. Well, that's how they thought of it. Yes. So as executive editor, I had to bring in $2 million worth of revenue yearly, which I did, actually. But, you know, the publisher came to me and said, steve, you can either resign or you can be fired. What happened was they were getting rid of a whole layer of edit. All the executive editors after I left were let go. I decided to resign just because I got a better payout. It become just very, very bottom line, very kind of challenging for a creative person to work in that environment. So I had never thought about being an agent. But my present boss, Jennifer Duchire, who had just started on agency, in fact, I was her very first client. She said, steve, how would you like to come work for me as an agent? And I thought about, and I thought, you know, I've done paperback books, hardcover books, children's magazines, books, book clubs. I've done everything. Yes, I think I could do it because I know all the players, I know all the publishers. So that's what happened. But it wasn't planned. It just kind of happened out of
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A
a, you know, are you a person who looks back on their careers, regrets things, wishes they had done some things differently?
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B
No, not at all. I mean, I'm really proud of all the books that I did. I helped start Karina. I published Brent Hartinger, who's a young adult author. I did his first four books. Dan Gutman, who writes My Weird School, that was my series. I bought that series. That's interesting.
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A
Originally, Dan is another wonderful person I met in New York. And I won't tell you the escapades we had together, but when we have hot chocolate, I will.
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B
So he had wrote this series called I Hate School. And I said, dan, I don't think teachers and librarians are like this. How about something like, oh, I don't know, my Weird school. Well, two million books later, it's still going strong. Yeah. So, no, I don't really regret anything. I'm proud of the books that I did. I did as much as I was able to. You know, I would walk into an editorial meeting and I would get like, 50% of the things that I really wanted to do, which I guess is a good track record for, you know, a big house. No, I'm proud of all the things I did. Yeah. So I have some funny stories to tell you. Is this a good time to. To. I.
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A
Just one thing that I want to ask you, because you. You talk now about it, and then you can tell the funny stories as much as you like. So when you see a manuscript. Okay, what are you thinking? Are you thinking this is a manuscript that I love or this is a manuscript that I love and can sell?
- [15:24]
B
Well, that's a good question. I mean, when I first started off as an agent, I was looking for things that I love, which is, you know, I mean, I think I have good taste. I love good, beautiful language. However, a good agent has to also pair it with what will sell in the current market. I mean, the market is always changing every day, every week, every year, every month. So when I read a manuscript, number one, I have to fall in love with it. And secondly, I have to think, can I sell it? Yeah, it's those two things together because I can love something. But if there really isn't a market for it, it's, you know, it's very difficult. On the other hand, I'm willing to go on a ledge and say, you know, I don't think the market, it doesn't make total sense, but let's make a market for it. And so I, you know, like, I love poetry and they. All the common wisdom is poetry doesn't sell. But you know what? I've sold six verse novels. I have a collection of poems right now. I have two collections of poems that I'm, I. I'm shopping around. So I think you can make a market for something. If you really in your heart believe something deserves to be published, I think you should go for it.
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A
So just before you tell funny stories. So when you say, okay, I think there's a market. So do you have editors in mind? You say, oh, this is something that Harry or Peter or Lindsay might want to see.
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B
Yes. So, I mean, it's probably because I've been doing it for 21 years now. When I read something, immediately editors, names pop into my head. Like, you know, five or six people I'll think about it. I'll go for a walk and I'll think of five or six more. Yeah. So I always think about what's the right publisher. I tell people it's like being a GPS system. An agent is a GPS system for writer. So I have to zoom in. And not just the right publisher, but the right editor at the right publisher. Because every editor is slightly different. Their tastes are different, their needs are different. So. But yeah, I automatically start thinking of people who I think would love something.
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A
But, Steve, editors. Editors leave and they retire and they. What happens when a new editor comes? You set up a coffee date.
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B
So.
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A
Well, or a hot chocolate date.
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B
Welcome to my life. It's musical chairs. Yes. So if there's someone new, I will email them and say, you know, tell me the kinds of things you're looking for. Or I, you know, I'll look at deals that are done in publishers, Marketplace online, and I'll get a name and then. So I'll submit to them and we'll start a dialogue. It's all about building relationships. And yes, it's. It's always changing. So that is my current challenge and challenge of every agent. The players are always changing. People are coming and going. People I knew 20 years ago have now retired or, you know, so it's always changing. But that's. But that's the fun of it, too.
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A
Okay, now. Now I'm going to just let you, you know, put your hair down and have fun. Tell us a few stories, and then I'm going to even ask you to sing.
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B
Oh, okay. Well, no, this is interesting. So years ago, I was pitching a nonfiction picture book to editors, and one editor said, thanks, but no thanks. You know, it's not for me. Which is fine. As fate would have it, she went on sick leave. So her publisher. So she rejected the book. Her publisher found the manuscript sitting on top of the desk, loved it, called, and made an offer. So the same publisher and I didn't say a word. So the same publisher rejected and acquired the same book.
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A
And we want to know which book this is.
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B
Oh, no. So I can't tell you because I don't want to make anyone feel bad, but I thought that was hilarious. The publisher had rejected it and then acquired it. So, I mean, I'm sure there are lots of funny stories like that, but I will never forget that.
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A
That's incredible. Okay, more.
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B
Okay. Now, I'm sure all agents have stories about manuscripts that they have passed on. When I was an editor.
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A
Don't tell me. Don't tell me Harry Potter.
- [19:47]
B
No. But I do have a story about Harry Potter. Okay. So when I was. When I was at Simon's History, I was essentially looking at books for boys. So I did chapter books. I did a series about American heroes. So a manuscript called the Princess Diaries came across my desk, which I passed on. I mean, I told Meg Cabot, I think this is adorable, but I don't. You know, this is not something I can use. So, of course it's history. It went to. Abby McAddan, was the editor at HarperCollins. It became, you know, a series of books. A movie became a huge thing. So I don't feel too bad. But now I do have a friend who passed on Harry Potter who should remain nameless. But of course, Steve, you promised me
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A
a few names today. You know, I'm just saying.
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B
Well, I mean, I can't say Katherine Teigen's name, but it was Catherine Teigen. No, she's retired now. She won't mind. But the thing is, when they were shopping around Harry Potter, they were asking for $50,000 for the first book. Well, no one knew who J.K. rowling was, so. No, no. That's a lot of money. You know, 20 years ago or however many years ago.
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A
Can I. Can I say something and you'll correct me?
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B
Yes.
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A
You know, they always say, oh, 16 agents or editors turned down Harry Potter.
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B
Yes.
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A
And I say, what, only 16, not a hundred?
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B
Well, it was probably more than 16. It was a lot. But Arthur Levine, of course, at Scholastic, said yes. And so that's the important thing. But no. Everyone said no. And it was simply because no one knew who she was. She had no track record. And that was a lot of money for an unknown author at the time, of course, as you know, we know now, it was a culture.
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A
It kind of paid back its advance.
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B
Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yeah. So I don't feel bad about the Princess Diaries, and I do love the book. Now, there's an interesting side story about the Princess Diaries. One of the performers in the Princess Diaries movies was Julie Andrews, who is one of my great idols of all time. Well, now, when I went to work at. HarperCollins, Elise Howard, who hired me, who knew I loved Julie Andrews, said, you know, if you come, you might be able to meet Julie Andrews. So I said yes on the spot to the job offer. And, you know, when she came into the office, I was standing there with a single rose to hand her. Not just the first time she came into the office, but every single time Julie Andrews showed Up. I had a rose for her which shows what a huge dork I am. But you know, my fandom was, did
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A
this ever go beyond the rose? Did you ever have hot chocolate together or Je ne c' est pacquia?
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B
No. I sat in on meeting, she gave me a hug. A full frontal hug.
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A
Wow. So yes, that's easily worth a hundred roses.
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B
Oh yes, absolutely. Now here's some interesting story. One of my clients wrote a middle grade verse novel about a kitten. I had had lunch with an editor several months prior and she said, just inadvertently, oh, I really like cats. Well, so I had this book, I sent it to her and she liked it, but she said, you know, it needs some work. So I let my clients do one revision without a contract. So the author did a revision, we sent it back and she liked it. She said, no, it still isn't good enough. So I broke my rule and I let her do another revision. The editor still held firm and said, no, it's really not strong enough. So a year went by, the author on her own did a revision, and I in my boldness said, you know what, let's go back to the editor one more time. And you know what? She bought the book. So the third revision, she bought the book. So the lesson is never give up.
- [24:10]
A
So have you ever given up?
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B
No. You know, I sold a book after five years. I had a picture book, I sent it to a bunch of people and I'd forgotten that this one editor had it. But a year later, the editor came to me and said, is this book still available? I forgot she had it and I said, yes, it is. So she bought the book after a year. So you never know. I've sold a book overnight, like the next day I've sold a book after several months, a year, five years. So whatever it takes.
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A
You have another story or should I
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B
ask you more questions? I have many stories. Okay, keep going.
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A
But I also want to ask you about what's happening in the idlet world today.
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B
Yeah. In fact, I wanted to address that. Okay, so speaking of editor lunches, I went to lunch with Howard Reeves from Abrams one time. We had a nice lunch. At the very end he just happened to say, you know, I like books with exotic settings. Well, wouldn't you know, the next week I got a middle grade novel by a first time author set in feudal Japan. So I thought Howard Reeves. So I sent it to him. He loved it. So the author had written a couple, two picture books, but never had written a novel. So Abrams published the book. It was her first novel, and it won the Newbury honor. It's called Heart of a Samurai, and it's still in print. We get royalties every six months still. Usually royalties go down every year, but this book still earns royalties. But that was her very first novel. But it shows you sometimes making connection with an editor, just an inadvertent comment can lead to the publication of a book.
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A
So it's a bit of a crapshoot at the end of the day.
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B
Yeah, yeah. I mean, you never know. Okay, what else? Let's see. I published. Oh, no, this is interesting. I spoke a little bit about geography club at HarperCollins. So I was at an editorial meeting and I, as an editor, refused to leave until they let me buy this one book. It was a young adult novel. It was a debut. Debut book. Nothing like putting your career on the line. So they did say yes. They said, well, we'll give you $5,000. Which is very. This was 40 years ago, but this was a very modest advance. At the same meeting, there was a book that had had some media attention written by a college student, and they approved $200,000 to pay this college student who'd never written a book before, but who had some publicity. Well, the good news is my book earned out, became a movie. The 200,000 book bombed and did not earn out. So I'm just show, you know, this is what happens sometimes in publishing, you know, very sometimes publishers, you know, pay big advances for whatever reason to get publicity, you know, a famous celebrity on their list or something. But it doesn't always work out the way that they hope of. But my book did really well and it's still in print, by the way.
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A
Did you mention the book?
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B
It's called the Geography Club and It's Brent Hartinger, HarperCollins. No, I had another book. I had met this writer, Matt Kirby, at a writers conference, and I had read a manuscript and I said to him, you know, this is really good. It's not great, but it's really good. I think it needs a bit of work. Well, a year later, he came back with a polished manuscript and it was the best first novel I've ever read. It's called the Clockwork 3. So I pitched it to publishers, but Scholastic was the one who was the most interested. And I thought, in my mind, okay, if we can get this amount of money, I'd be really happy, but I'd really like to get this amount. So they came in with a preemptive bid, meaning the publishers. I took it off the table. No Other publishers could participate. So I thought, okay, where are they going to come in? So they didn't offer the advance I thought they would advance or the one that I thought would be great. But they went above and beyond what I even had hoped. So the first novel, because it was in an option sold for Piano's bid went for a huge amount of money. So that was a really good story. Which now leads me to the next good story is that after this author had several books published, an editor came to me out of the blue and said, Steve, would your author be interested in writing this series for us which we have developed? So you know, as an agent, you never name a price. The money always comes from the author. But I heard myself saying, well, you know, he's expensive, which I, you know, I would never have done, but. And then the editor said, well, how much? So again, you never name a price. But I heard myself saying this ungodly amount of money. And without blinking, the editor said, oh, okay. So we got him a huge three book deal with big advances. So I broke on all the rules as an agent, but it, it meant he could quit his job as a writer and write full time. His job in teaching and write full time.
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A
So did the events pay out in the end?
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B
Yes. In fact, the first year, I think he sold like a hundred thousand copies of the book.
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A
Fantastic.
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B
Yeah.
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A
So before your next story, and I have to ask you, how many of the books that you sell sell enough copies to pay out the advance?
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B
What's the question? Well, you know, I don't know if I could say exactly. I would say approximately. Well, I would say it's maybe a quarter, maybe 25%. You know, most advances don't earn out, certainly not within the first year. I think, to be fair, I think two years is a better gauge. You know, the first royalty report is only six months out, so you have to wait at least this for the second royalty report. But really a full, I think two years is a better judge. It takes a while for books to find their audience. A picture book or a novel, nonfiction books, maybe even longer. Some books like I, but even Steve,
- [31:04]
A
even at a five year a retrospective
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B
gauge, I guess I would like to say 50%. I think publishers know advances aren't necessarily going to earn out. That's why advances are fairly modest. Yeah, I don't know. The hope is that every book will earn out the advance within the year. But I don't think it happens. Five years most probably.
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A
Okay, so let me ask you the question that. And then you can ask yourself a question. The kid lit community now has been involved in arguments about what makes a good picture book and what the publisher should be publishing and so on. If you want to give a general take on this, because it's a miracle when a manuscript is sold. But picture books are so iffy. You never know what you're gonna get in the end or correct me if I'm wrong.
- [32:14]
B
Yes, I suppose it's like making a movie. You do the best you can. You put it out there, and with the wizardry of editing and everything, it's either a masterpiece or a fail. I mean, who knows? Yeah, I mean, there are trends, of course. I mean, I think at the moment, funny picture books are hot. For a while, picture book biographies were a big deal. And then a couple years ago, editors were saying, you know, stop, we're too many picture book biographies coming out. There are always going to be picture book biographies, but not as many as in the past. I think fairy tales and folk tales, I think, are hard to sell at the moment. And. But that will change again. Contemporary stories and funny stories for picture books, I think are the best at
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A
the moment, but I'm going to make it more specific. One of the arguments is books written towards a purpose as opposed to books written towards a story.
- [33:15]
B
Okay, this is actually a very good point. I think there's a trend, and I think it comes back to. I think adults have a really bad habit, a feeling that they always need to teach children. Yes, teaching is a part of a child's life, but I think the really bad habit of always wanting to teach has produced a really bad trend, which is essentially therapy on paper for children. I mean, every week I read so many manuscripts which are therapy on paper for kids. They're very didactic. I mean, there's a place, I suppose, for some books like that, but I think it's a really bad trend, and I think that we have to get away from that. And even if there's a moral or a lesson which is embedded in the story, it needs to be a good story. And I think that's something that everyone needs to learn, write a good story. You know, a character's actions can teach a lesson. You don't need to come out and say, you know, be fair, be honest, be generous, whatever, be forgiving. That's great, but have it come out in the actions of the characters. But yes, I think that the current trend of teaching of didactic manuscripts is not good. I think we need to get back to real storytelling.
- [34:45]
A
This is a tradition that goes back to Ursula Nordstrom.
- [34:48]
B
Yes. Yeah.
- [34:49]
A
But do you feel like in recent years there is a trend against this to be didactic? You know, I have this thing with Jewish picture books. Right. You know, I'm Jewish. I love Jewish picture books. But sometimes picture books get published because they're about a holiday, you know, the Hanukkiah that wanted to be a giraffe. And I'm always looking for, what's the story? What's the twist in the end?
- [35:19]
B
Yeah, well, as I said, there's a place for a story that teaches a lesson, particularly like a folk tale or something, like, with a religious tradition. Jewish, Christian, Muslim, whatever. But I think it comes back to we really need. It's the human need for story. It's so much a part of the human condition is sharing stories. I mean, it started around the hearth or around a campfire or now it's around, you know, the kitchen table or whatever. Story is so essential to being a human being. So we can't forget. That is an essential thing that we all need. And I think, I hope we will come back to that more. I think this current trend of teaching children always, I think. I don't know, I suppose that therapy is a big part of a lot of people's lives. Mindfulness, you know, is a big thing, and that's fine. But it has its place. But, but let's remember, books for children need to be fun. They need to tell a story.
- [36:20]
A
I'm thinking of Crouton, which is just.
- [36:23]
B
Yeah.
- [36:23]
A
So much fun.
- [36:24]
B
So much fun. Yes.
- [36:27]
A
Let. Let me pick. Let me pick.
- [36:31]
B
Yes. Who am I going to. Who am I going to have as my owner? Christine has another book which I'm shopping around called Nugget, which is about a dog who, you know, in a. In a shelter. So it's kind of the other. The other side. It's quite delightful.
- [36:47]
A
Oh, that's wonderful. So, Steve, are there any more other stories that you want to share before we start to sum up?
- [36:54]
B
Okay. Yes, so I have a couple things. So the very first book that I saw, I pride myself on kind of championing what I would call prestige books. Beautiful language, kind of. Hopefully books that are award winners. They're going to get good reviews. The very first book I sold as an agent was a book called I Was a Teenage Popsicle. It's about a girl who is cryogenically frozen and she wakes up and her little sister is now her older sister. It was quite funny. So it's not at all the kind of book I would think I would sell. But you know what, you have to have to earn a living. So that's the first book that I sold. I've now sold almost 150 books, which, I mean, I wish it was double that. There are always books that you don't sell or you haven't sold yet. But yeah, so that's picture books, chapter books, nonfiction, middle grade ya. So a little bit of everything.
- [37:51]
A
Fantastic. So one or two more stories and we'll save the other stories for our interview next year because I still have to get you this thing.
- [38:00]
B
Yeah, so, I mean, there are a couple things I wanted actually to talk about. One is a lot of people are concerned about AI Artificial intelligence, and rightfully so. I mean, I think illustrators particularly should be concerned because, you know, I don't think it would happen. But conceivably a publisher could, say, illustrate a book in the style of Maurice Sendak and, you know, Marcia Sewell or Christine Lombardi and, you know, and I mean, that could happen. But all our contracts now with publishers, we insist on a clause protecting the author and the illustrator against the use of AI to create a book. And I'm sure all other Asians are doing exactly the same thing. But it's very important to protect our creative people against the use of AI And AI probably has a use for some people, but not for writing books that are going to get published, and certainly not for writing and illustrating books. I will say some submissions I have, you know, sometimes writers think that they have to have a book illustrated if they're going to submit a picture book, when in fact it's the editor's job to hire an illustrator. So when I see a book that's been illustrated, I can always tell when it's been done by AI because they all look the same. They're all kind of cartoony, nondescript characters. You can spot it right away. So all our contracts now have protection against the use of AI So I just thought that would be something to mention.
- [39:39]
A
Absolutely.
- [39:40]
B
The other thing I wanted to mention is the current climate in publishing. The last few weeks I've heard from a lot of people who are concerned saying, are things really as bad as people are saying about the publishing world? You know, Dial Books for young readers disappeared after 30 years. Roaringberg Press, which won so many Caldecott Medals, is gone. So I would say publishing is always changing. Yes, those are disturbing, but it's not really any different from five years ago or ten years ago when I worked at Simon and Schuster. There was every week there was A rumor that Simon and Schuster was going to be bought by someone. Imprints. You know, there were two imprints in HarperCollins that disappeared in one day. So I would say things are always changing. And yes, it's disturbing when imprints go away, when editors leave. One of my clients had an editor for 35 years who then retired, so she felt orphaned. Things are always changing, but there are also really good things going on. There are new imprints coming along. There are new editors who are starting off, who have a lot of energy, if not a lot of experience, but a lot of energy and good instincts. Same with agents, the new agents coming along. So there's a lot of good news. I think the thing is to focus on that and not be too disturbed by, you know, if one book doesn't sell now, then maybe the next book will sell. And you know that the first book may sell in a year. So I would just say, hold on. Things are going to change because they're always changing. But there's a lot of good news, a lot of good books being published.
- [41:27]
A
I'm so happy to hear your good cheer. And I know some of the lucky people that you represent. And based on your book sales and your spirit, you absolutely don't show any signs of slowing down whatsoever.
- [41:48]
B
I feel like I'm just getting going.
- [41:50]
A
Exactly.
- [41:50]
B
I mean, it took me 10 years to be bold enough to say, well, this author is expensive. So when you're first starting off, you're very. Not shy exactly, but very cautious. I'm not cautious at all. Now, if I feel a book is right for one editor, I will give them an exclusive look at something and I'll tell them, I'll give you a month with this and then get back to me. Or I will go back to someone that said you didn't like this book, but we've revised it. I think you'll like it now. So I feel like I'm just getting going and this, the backdrop is always changing. So things that wouldn't sell 20 years ago when I started maybe would sell now. So, yeah, Steve, you can set a
- [42:39]
A
world record and take a manuscript from 20 years ago and brush off the dust and sell it.
- [42:45]
B
You know, I'm not shy. I would do that.
- [42:49]
A
Okay, listen, we're going to save some stuff for our next interview because it's just so much fun. But one of the things that people don't know about you, but that I do, is that you have a road not taken. And your road not taken was of a Hollywood. I'm not Hollywood, Broadway. Or maybe Hollywood, a Broadway actor, singer. And this is a career that you abandoned. And there's nothing wrong with singing a song. Can I ask you to sing a Broadway song?
- [43:27]
B
Well, I mean, I haven't really prepared anything.
- [43:31]
A
Those are the best. You know, I think that mistakes are underrated.
- [43:37]
B
Okay, well, do you know the song from Merrily We Roll Along? Hey, old friend Are you okay, old friend? What do you say, old friend? Oh, now, see, now I've forgotten the words.
- [43:53]
A
You can make up some words, Steve.
- [43:57]
B
Oh, well, now, this is the very last song that Rodgers and Hammerstein wrote together. Edelweiss. Edelweiss.
- [44:12]
A
Go ahead.
- [44:13]
B
Homeland Forever. Well, see, I'm forgetting the words now
- [44:17]
A
that you've put me on as snow May you bloom and grow.
- [44:31]
B
Bless my homeland forever.
- [44:37]
A
It's such a great song that people thought that it's.
- [44:40]
B
Well, people thought it was actually a national song. Yes, I thought it was an actual Austrian song, but it was written probably in upstate New York by Rodgers and Hammerstein.
- [44:50]
A
Did you see the recent movie Blue Moon?
- [44:55]
B
Yes, I saw it twice. Fabulous.
- [44:58]
A
Me, too.
- [44:59]
B
Yeah.
- [44:59]
A
Great movie, right?
- [45:01]
B
It was a great movie and the screenplay was really good. That's why I wanted a second time, because I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. The dialogue was so good.
- [45:10]
A
It was special. Okay, so listen, I don't want to. We're not going to spill all the beans today because I want to have you back next year.
- [45:18]
B
Okay?
- [45:20]
A
And I'm just going to recap that. I've been speaking to the wonderful Stephen Fraser, senior literary agent at Jennifer Tijera, and actually one of the people that started the agency. And we have so much to talk about, but our time is up and we want to have a little chit at chat. We're going to say goodbye to all of our listeners and viewers and wave again, not my book, the other books. So that everybody will run out and buy Crouton and the Shrew Detective.
- [45:54]
B
The Shrew Detective came out this week. It's published by Abrams, Margy Preuss. It's a chapter book. It's fully illustrated. It's just delightful. And it's the first in the series, so next year will be the second mystery.
- [46:07]
A
And Steve, send me the author. I'd love to interview the author.
- [46:10]
B
Yeah, she's actually very good. She does a lot of promotional things, of course. And the second book is Crouton. This is just Crouton, not the book itself. Came out the end of January, actually, almost on my birthday. The day before my birthday selling like hotcakes, I'm really proud to say, and hopefully there'll be many more crouton books, so we'll see.
- [46:34]
A
It's a wonderful book. So, Steve, we're going to say goodbye to everybody. We'll go and come back. And everyone have a great day. And submit, submit, do your best work and good luck to everyone.
- [46:48]
B
Thank you. Thank you for listening to this episode of the New Books Network. We are an academic podcast network with the mission of public education. If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend and rate us on your preferred podcast platform. You can browse all of our episodes on our website, newbooksnetwork.com Connect with us on Instagram and BlueSky with the handle ew booksnetwork, and subscribe to our weekly Substack newsletter at newbooksnetwork.substack.com to get episode recommendations straight to your inbox.