Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Andrew Billing, "Animal Rhetoric and Natural Science in Eighteenth-century Liberal Political Writing" (Routledge, 2023)
Date: February 4, 2026
Host: Gina Stam
Guest: Dr. Andrew Billing

Episode Overview

This episode features a conversation with Dr. Andrew Billing about his recent book, Animal Rhetoric and Natural Science in 18th-century Liberal Political Zoologies of the French Enlightenment. The discussion explores how conceptions of the animal in Enlightenment France, mediated by emerging natural science and exemplified by Buffon's Histoire naturelle, influenced liberal political theory. Billing argues that thinkers like Rousseau, Diderot, La Mettrie, Quesnay, and Restif de la Bretonne used animal rhetoric and scientific reference to interrogate and reformulate political concepts such as liberty, perfectibility, moral sentiment, and authority.

Key Discussion Points

1. Origins of the Book Project

Interest Sparked by Rousseau and Derrida [01:24–02:38]

• Billing’s doctoral work focused on Rousseau, especially animal references in Rousseau’s political writings.
• Attending Jacques Derrida’s seminar The Beast and the Sovereign heightened his interest in the animal’s role in political philosophy.
• This led Billing to broaden his scope to other 18th-century authors, observing a shared preoccupation with animal references, often via Buffon's Histoire naturelle.

Quote [02:16]:

"My claim is that in all of their writings, fundamental to their political thought is a certain question of liberty, political liberty, what it means, and so forth. And so that's really another connection that links them, in addition to the shared interest in the animal..." –Andrew Billing

2. Defining Key Terms: Liberalism & Political Zoology

French Liberalism and "Political Zoology" [05:38–08:36]

• Billing groups these writers as "liberal," though he notes this is a nuanced and at times controversial claim.
• "Political zoology" is borrowed from Derrida, describing a tradition where political thinkers use animal concepts/metaphors to articulate political ideas.
• Billing's innovation is to identify a specifically 18th-century, Buffon-influenced form of political zoology tied to empirical animal science.

Quote [07:16]:

"What I'm arguing is that a distinctive form of political zoology...emerges in the middle of the 18th century in France in relationship to Buffon's natural history and this empirical, or, if you like, scientific approach to the animal." –Andrew Billing

3. Anthropomorphism and Animal Rhetoric

Addressing Humanization of Animals [08:36–12:01]

• Naturalists like Buffon claimed animal study was essential for understanding humanity, moving beyond mere anthropomorphic metaphors.
• 18th-century writers attempted to ground political metaphors in empirical science rather than fables or crude anthropomorphism.
• There remains slippage from empirical observation to metaphor, but the writers saw themselves as working from science.

4. Deep Dives into Key Authors

a. Julien Offray de La Mettrie [12:01–17:45]

• La Mettrie, a physician-philosopher, radicalizes the Cartesian "animal-machine" by extending mechanistic thinking to all human faculties.
• Machine as Hinge: The "machine" model is key not just physiologically but also politically—it underpins deterministic models of justice and a reformist, medicalized state.
• Despite contradictions (determinism vs. liberal reform), his work is a "hybrid science," fusing physiology and politics.

Quote [16:41]:

"The machine image serves La Mettrie as a way to underpin a deterministic conception of animal and human behavior. And it also serves him as a way to think about how determinism should shape the way we think about politics and questions of justice and criminal punishment." –Andrew Billing

b. Concepts of Perfectibility & Moral Sentiments [17:45–21:45]

• Both Rousseau and La Mettrie explore "perfectibility"—humans' capacity for development beyond instinct.
• La Mettrie sometimes posits a human "lack" compensated by perfectibility, but also seeks animal continuity in moral sentiment.
• Billing notes these writers rework or even supplant classical concepts like natural law or rights with new, animal-informed ideas.

c. François Quesnay and the Physiocrats [21:45–28:23]

• Quesnay, foundational to modern economics, sees national wealth rooted in the productive power of nature ("physis")—not commerce or industry.
• His political economy is built on physiological analogies from his earlier medical writing, applying models of the "animal economy" to the nation.
• Uses animals in practical (agricultural) and metaphorical senses—including as workers (horses vs. bulls) and as analogies for social classes (peasantry as quasi-animal consumers).

Quote [25:58]:

"Central to Quesnay's idea of surplus value ... is the idea of not just economic production, but reproduction... there's this quasi-animalization, even of the peasantry there as part of another kind of animal economy." –Andrew Billing

d. Denis Diderot [28:23–35:48]

• Diderot’s political theory is fragmented; he believed that a general theory of morality required attention to animal science.
• He uses animal examples to parse natural rights and moral sentiments, attempting to ground human morality in traits shared with animals.
• Diderot’s physiology (organism, organs, molecules) shapes his political analogies—"the politics of organs" (intermediary bodies, protected liberties) and "the politics of molecules" (democratization, the limits of political society).

Quote [39:06]:

"The organic perspective for Diderot...can be understood as connected with a certain conception of liberty...the molecular point of view is more radical...used to think about democracy and even the possibility of anarchistic organization." –Andrew Billing

e. Jean-Jacques Rousseau [40:30–45:40]

• Rousseau’s Discourse on Inequality scrutinizes the line between animal and human: Billing argues Rousseau refuses a neat metaphysical distinction.
• Contradicts readers who claim "liberty" or "perfectibility" are uniquely human; for Rousseau, animal examples serve as evidence for human freedom—and limits to inequality.
• Animal references are normatively essential, not merely illustrative, often drawing on Buffon’s science for authority.

Quote [44:50]:

"The animal reference isn't just casual, but I argue that it's normative and important and fundamental as...to underpin his argument." –Andrew Billing

f. Restif de la Bretonne [45:40–52:19]

• Restif’s La Découverte Australe is a bizarre, utopian novel where animal-human hybrids populate a fantastical Pacific empire.
• Blends retellings of contemporary colonial voyages with reflections on racial difference, animality, and the paradoxes of liberal empire.
• Billing highlights the text’s attempt to imagine a "liberal" imperial order that both justifies and limits inclusion, with "fraternity" serving as a double-edged ideology.

Quote [50:52]:

"The animal human hybrids Victorin and his descendants encounter are fairly transparent figures for...human racial difference...the political content...is an attempt to sort of think through this paradox of a liberal empire." –Andrew Billing

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On grouping his corpus [02:16]:
  "My claim is that in all of their writings, fundamental to their political thought is a certain question of liberty..."

• On political zoology as tradition [07:16]:
  "...a distinctive form of political zoology...emerges in the middle of the 18th century in France in relationship to Buffon's natural history..."

• On La Mettrie and the machine image [16:41]: "The machine image serves La Mettrie as a way to underpin a deterministic conception of animal and human behavior..."

• On Diderot’s molecular politics [39:06]: "...the molecular point of view...used to think about democracy and even the possibility of anarchistic organization."

• On Rousseau’s use of animal references [44:50]: "The animal reference isn't just casual, but...normative and important and fundamental as...to underpin his argument."

• On Retif and liberal empire [50:52]: "...the political content...is an attempt to sort of think through this paradox of a liberal empire."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:24 – How Billing became interested in political animal rhetoric
• 05:38 – Defining "liberal" and "political zoology"
• 08:36 – Anthropomorphism and empirical animal science
• 12:01 – La Mettrie, the machine, and determinism
• 17:45 – Perfectibility and moral sentiment in Enlightenment thought
• 21:45 – Quesnay, physiocracy, and the animal economy
• 28:23 – Diderot’s politics and animal analogy
• 35:54 – The politics of organs and molecules: Diderot
• 40:30 – Rousseau: human-animal distinction and liberty
• 45:40 – Restif’s La Découverte Australe and the paradoxes of liberal empire
• 52:31 – Dr. Billing discusses future projects

Tone and Style

The conversation is scholarly yet accessible, openly grappling with complexity. Billing is careful to qualify claims and to trace connections with nuance, often citing both secondary literature and historical context. The tone is reflective, sometimes speculative, and always anchored in close textual and historical reading.

Conclusion

Billing’s central insight is that 18th-century French political thinkers drew on the new animal sciences not only as metaphor but as substance, reformulating the core tenets of liberalism and the boundaries of politics itself. Animal rhetoric served as both a medium for critique and a guide in reimagining human nature, justice, and society. The book’s approach, and this podcast conversation, offer a rich meditation on the enduring entanglement of animality, science, and political imagination.