Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: New Books Network – Critical Theory
Host: David
Guests: Anna Strhan & Rachael Shillitoe
Book Discussed: Growing Up Godless: Non-Religious Childhoods in Contemporary England (Princeton UP, 2025)
Date: September 10, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features Anna Strhan and Rachael Shillitoe, co-authors of Growing Up Godless, who discuss their groundbreaking ethnographic study of non-religious children in England. The conversation delves into how non-religion is lived out and transmitted across generations, the agency of children in shaping their beliefs, the interplay between home and school environments, and the emergence of moral frameworks absent of religious underpinnings.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Origins and Motivation for the Study

[02:42 – 05:48]

• The rise of "nones"—people claiming no religion—in the UK has overtaken Christianity for the first time.
• Previous research focused on adults or adolescents; virtually none had addressed younger children's experiences.
• The book was inspired to address how non-religion is formed, lived, and potentially transmitted during childhood.

Quote:

"In the UK, no religion has recently overtaken Christianity as the majority identity here for the first time."
—Anastasia [03:08]

• The research partnership built on both authors’ prior work in sociology of religion and childhood.
• Funded by the "Understanding Unbelief" program.

2. Defining Terms: Non-Religion and Non-Belief

[05:48 – 08:53]

• Non-religion isn’t synonymous with atheism or the absence of belief; it's any position or perspective defined in relation to religion, but not religious itself.
• Non-belief refers specifically to lack of belief in traditionally religious phenomena (e.g., God) not to a total absence of beliefs.

Quote:

"It's not being used to designate something which is the absence of something. It's something that is characterized, at least in the first instance, through its relation to religion."
—Rachel Shillitoe [07:18]

• Children actively hold both beliefs (e.g., in unicorns, science) and non-beliefs.

3. Children's Beliefs: What Do They Actually Believe?

[08:53 – 13:30]

• Most children do not believe in God, aligning with their sampled backgrounds.
• Where belief in God is absent, belief in science (Big Bang, evolution) emerges as an alternative.
• Many children believe in "magical" or fantastical entities—ghosts, dragons, unicorns—as playful and socially significant.
• Children emphasize autonomy in their beliefs, recognizing parental influence but valuing independent choosing.
• Their sources of meaning are rooted in relationships, fun, pleasure, and care for others (friends, pets, animals, nature)—a "this-worldly" orientation.

Quote:

"They spoke about those kinds of beliefs as things that were fun and playful in their lives and also as part of their friendships with each other."
—Anastasia [11:24]

4. Intergenerational Dynamics: Parents and Non-Religious Transmission

[13:30 – 19:42]

• Parent-child transmission of belief is complex—much broader and more multifaceted than a simple "handing down" of non-belief.
• Parents' own upbringings were more likely to include religion; their non-religious stances come with varying levels of critique or openness toward religion.
• Strong commitment among parents to their children's autonomy in belief, although practice sometimes contradicts espoused values of "freedom."
• Children’s agency influences not just themselves but also prompts parents to reflect on or reconsider their own beliefs.

Quote:

"There was a very much a strong sense of the children as having agency in figuring these things out, at the same time, while they were aware their parents' influences as well."
—Anastasia [19:35]

5. The Role of Schools

[21:12 – 28:08]

• Schools, especially religious education (RE), serve as contexts in which children become aware of their non-religious status, especially when religion plays a minor role at home.
• Non-religious perspectives are often equated with scientific ones; empiricism and reason are privileged in the curriculum.
• School climate promotes autonomy and choice, reinforcing agency in belief—not just in religion, but broadly.
• There’s both an implicit “humanist” form of life (focused on rationality, equality, empirical knowledge) and a persistent “ambient Christianity” via assemblies, prayers, and Christian calendar.
• Children are often critically aware when schools privilege Christianity, reflecting broader social values of diversity and equality.

Quote:

"It was often the schools themselves, and particularly the role of R.E., that the children were becoming aware of their own non-religious identities."
—Rachel Shillitoe [22:49]

Memorable exchange:

Jake: "Because they want to get you into the life of Christianity. The school is aimed towards Christianity."
Lucas: "Yes, it's very subtly told. Like, when they did about places of worship in R.E., what was the very first thing they showed us? Church."
[26:20]

6. Ethics Without Religion: “Ordinary Equality”

[28:08 – 32:54]

• Children express strong moral commitments—especially to diversity and equality—without needing religion as a foundation.
• They exhibit an effortless respect for difference, seeing religion as one kind of identity worthy of respect, similar to race or sexuality.
• The authors conceptualize this as an “ethic of ordinary equality”: a taken-for-granted, everyday commitment to respect and equality.
• This achievement is everyday yet fragile—formed in a post-Brexit context of hate crime and social division.

Quote:

"...the children create a world in which they embody an ethic of equality in their everyday interactions. And that's an achievement, but also a fragile achievement as they're growing up in contexts of racism and othering..."
—Anastasia [31:44]

7. Future Research and Reflections

[32:54 – 38:17]

• The book opens new research avenues: theorizing non-religion, longitudinal study of childhood into adolescence, moral frameworks outside religion.
• Anna Strhan is working on research into values, citizenship, and national identity as shaped by religion/non-religion in primary schools.
• Rachel Shillitoe’s subsequent projects included work on morality in childhood and the science/religion interface, eventually moving into social science roles outside academia.

Quote:

"I'm also working with others to develop a new collaborative project which takes up this sort of focus on other than religious forms of meaning and value."
—Anastasia [35:12]

Notable Quotes

• “Non-belief... is not to say that non-belief means having absolutely no beliefs. It's specifically to refer to non-belief as in a lack of belief in traditionally religious phenomena.”
  —Rachel Shillitoe [07:58]

• “Their beliefs were their beliefs. So although they recognized that they were influenced by their parents, they thought it was important that they had chosen their own beliefs.”
  —Anastasia [12:34]

• “Schools were kind of implicitly making a humanist form of life available to the children... that values human agency, equality, empiricism and rationality.”
  —Anastasia [25:34]

• “They often spoke about how, you know, if they'd grown up elsewhere that they'd likely to see and experience the world very differently, hold different values.”
  —Anastasia [31:06]

Important Timestamps

• [02:42] Research origins & context: Rise of non-religion
• [06:30] Defining non-religion and non-belief
• [09:56] Children’s beliefs: science, magic, agency
• [13:30] Intergenerational dynamics: parent–child belief transmission
• [21:12] Institutional influences: Role of schools and curriculum
• [29:12] “Ordinary equality” and moral frameworks
• [33:56] What’s next for the authors: research trajectories

Tone and Style

The episode is thoughtful, analytical, and rich with vivid ethnographic anecdotes. The authors speak with empathy for their child participants and a nuanced understanding of both sociological theory and everyday lived experiences. The tone is reflective and open—keen to acknowledge complexities and the messiness of belief and unbelief.

This summary captures the foundational questions, key findings, memorable quotes, and major theoretical insights from the episode, offering a comprehensive guide for those interested in contemporary childhood, non-religion, and sociological approaches to belief.