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- [00:00]
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- [00:30]
Anna Kira Stinson
And we're live on Matchday as Doug reaches for a buffalo wing. He's got it. Oh, and he's gone for a can of Pepsi too. What a finish. There's no doubt about it. It just tastes better. Match days deserve Pepsi. This summer, serve up the Cookout classics,
- [00:52]
Rebecca Buchanan
Heinz ketchup and Kraft Singles.
- [00:54]
Anna Kira Stinson
Every good burger needs a layer of perfectly melty cheese and thick, rich ketchup. We all know it's not a cookout without Heinz and Kraft. Welcome to the New Books Network.
- [01:09]
Rebecca Buchanan
Hi, this is Rebecca Buchanan, host at New Books Network, and today I'm here with Anakira Stinson to talk about her new novel, Nerve Damage. Anna, Kira, thanks for being here with me today.
- [01:18]
Anna Kira Stinson
Hi.
- [01:20]
Rebecca Buchanan
Could you start by giving a synopsis about what your book's about? Yes.
- [01:24]
Anna Kira Stinson
So Nerve Damage, it's, it's the story of a young woman named Clarice who had an ex boyfriend who became a stalker and like harassed her after they broke up. And she had to go through the process of getting a restraining order against him. And it was like this whole nightmare. And a couple of years later, right after the restraining order expires, she has since moved to a new city and basically is out with a friend one night and thinks that she sees him in a bar and is not 100% sure that it's him, but is pretty sure. And that sends her into a paranoid spiral about trying to figure out if it's him and what he's doing there and if he's there for her. And yeah, essentially if this one relationship that she had is gonna kind of follow her for the rest of her life. And it's sort of where she goes with it. And so it switches between the present as she's trying to figure out and if it's him and follow him and more or less sort of turn the tables and start stalking him back. But it also goes back in time and, you know, you see a little bit into their relationship and you know what happened post breakup and a little bit or no, kind of a lot into her childhood and things like that. So. Yeah, that's, that's the long explanation.
- [03:10]
Rebecca Buchanan
Perfect, perfect. Right. I would love for you to talk a little bit about how this sort of book, book came to be, how the idea came for you, like what inspired it.
- [03:20]
Anna Kira Stinson
Yeah, I think that, you know, I was working on something else for a while and it just wasn't, it wasn't fully coming together and my mom actually suggested that I just try something else. And I got very annoyed when she told me that. And then the next day basically started nerve damage. And I think the underlying emotional question that I was really interested in was about the impact of fear and trauma on a person's psyche and the way that has these long term effects long after the actual incident or incidents have occurred and sort of what happens to a person if they can't get over something like that, you know, a traumatic thing happening to them. And, and, and I was also interested in looking at how fear impacts a person's ability to, to have intimacy in their life. And so those, those were kind of like the, the, the underlying things that just as a person and as a writer, I was interested in looking at and analyzing and poking and the idea of somebody, you know, the sort of present day timeline in the book of this woman, Clarice, you know, stalking her stalker, so to speak, like trying to follow and figure out if this person was back in her life. That just kind of popped into my brain. But yeah, I mean, I think also partially it's like as a person I've. I'd had some in my late 20s and early 30s, some not so great relationships. And you know, there was one in particular that I think did, did a number on me and I was writing about that personally, but then I found that I, like, I didn't want to write about it. You know, like, I didn't, I couldn't remember everything. And I also didn't want, I didn't want to write autofiction. I didn't want to write like a memoir. But I also was interested in a lot of the, yeah, as I said, the kind of like underlying questions about like the impact of a traumatic, in this case like a traumatic relationship on a person's psyche and ability to like be intimate with other people. And so I was interested in that stuff. So there were, there were certain things that were definitely like sparks, the spark from, from real life experiences. But I didn't, yeah, I didn't want to, like, I didn't want to write about, you know, I didn't want to do like a Memoir type of a thing or something like that. So that's. That's kind of how it all came together.
- [06:24]
Rebecca Buchanan
I am just wondering when you're writing about trauma, right. And you're writing about sort of trauma and multiple people having trauma, I guess, in the book, too, like, how do you kind of approach that or do that and write about that with also taking kind of care of yourself or making sure that you can, like, you know, that it does not become a traumatic experience to write all this stuff about trauma all the time.
- [06:52]
Anna Kira Stinson
Right. I mean, I think it's hard. And it's also hard to tell if writing about it is causing more stress than it is relief. But I think in the long run, for me, there is something about, yeah, the act of writing where you're kind of, like, transmuting something dark into something else and. And looking at it. And to me, there is something that happens in the process of writing that, like, is. Yeah, I guess, is reparative. And so I do. I am drawn to dark themes and, you know, for personal reasons, but also I'm. I'm interested in those kind of gray area spaces where things can be really dark and then become really. Can become funny. I mean, I think that's also another way to answer the question is that, like, I try to infuse humor and absurdity in my tone. And, like, I think that's definitely, you know, a coping mechanism in my own life for. For. For trauma or for. Or for even, like, mundane daily life. Like, there's just. That's always. Humor has always been like a big. Laughing's been a big part of my life. No, but, but, no, but I mean, it is. That is kind of how I try. I sort of alleviate some of the. The heaviness of things that I of, like, darker topics that I'm looking at is with humor. So I think that's one way of going about it. But I also do find that, like, looking directly at things and talking about things directly is healthier for the spirit in general than not. And that, I think is part of where my impulse to write does come from is kind of like shedding some light on, you know, I guess I'll just say, like, my own darkness or my own shadow and trying to kind of, like, seek connection in humanity through that process.
- [09:27]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah, you brought up humor, and that was something I wanted to ask you about because Clarice is this, like, character who. And at least for me as a reader, I want to feel sympathy for and I want, you know. But then she'll do something. And I'll be like, are you serious? Like, what are you doing? And there's this kind of levity there. And so can you, like, sort of maybe talk about writing her as a character or thinking about the character and how, like, how far you felt you could kind of push her in that direction and sort of this sort of absurdity and humor with also making sure, like, that's. I mean, being stalked is a real thing. You know, like, it's really traumatic. It's a real thing. So. Yeah. Can you talk a little bit about that? Yeah.
- [10:10]
Anna Kira Stinson
I mean, the thing with Clarice is, like, I wanted her to sort of straddle both, you know, acting a little crazy at times or obviously, like, going into an obsessive spiral about something. But at the same time, like, I don't. I don't find her to be, like, completely unhinged or that it's some, like, total descent into madness. Like, it's the reason that she's trying to figure this out and trying and, you know, ends up going, you know, trying to gather information from the woman that she saw him with and try, you know, is sneaking around in different places and doing things that are, like, yeah, potentially, like, illegal or. Or not potentially are illegal or, like, are, you know, a little, like, sketchy. She does them all because she's trying to figure out if she's safe. And so I think that there. To me, it was. There was. I wanted to. I wanted there to be some understanding of. Of why she was doing the things that she was doing. At the same time that, like, yeah, it was. It was getting a little out of hand, and she was not making, like, healthy, good decisions for herself. It was. She. She definitely let the fear take hold in. In, like, a really big way. And to her, I think it felt like she was taking matters into her own hands. And, you know, nobody else could give her a straight answer about whether or not she was safe. And there was no way of, like, really making sure of that. And I think that, like, you know, to some extent, there's no way of ever making sure anybody's safe at any time. But, like, for her, it was like she had gone through this process of having an intimate relationship with somebody who then, you know, really intensely harassed her after and. And stalked her after they broke up. So I think she'd had. She'd had. And, you know, on top of that, like, there are hints, and we look into things that happened in her childhood that might have. That also affected her just, like, kind of level of Fear and her level of confidence, I think in just in being like a person who's safe in the world. So I didn't. Yeah, I wanted, I definitely knew that she was and wanted her to, to go, you know, pretty far in one direction in terms of acting a little out of pocket. But like, I also wanted it, I wanted there to, I didn't want it to be, you know, that there was, it's like some crazy twist at the end where like, in fact, you know, she's like made up, made the entire thing up and in fact is like a murderer. You know, it wasn't like some crazy like thriller twist in the set. It was more about the impact of like how fear and, and experiencing that level of trauma can like really mess a person up in like a really big way. And they like continue to have like, that person continues to have to deal with it and you know, long after like the, the actual threat might be gone.
- [13:44]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I was going to say because you, you have her also like doing on paper, like, like for everybody else, all the right things. Right. She sees a therapist, she kind of moves, she does file like a restraining order. Like she does all the right things, but that doesn't mean that it disappears. Right. Some people are like, well, you, you took care of it, you moved away, you did this, you did that, you're talking to someone about it, you, you should be fine. Right? And so it also is showing that too, I think the importance of you can do all the right things, but that doesn't mean that fear is. And that feeling want to feel safe, that safe, that, well, non safeness is gonna disappear and you're automatically going to be like, oh, it's happy, fun times.
- [14:29]
Anna Kira Stinson
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like there's no way of ensuring that something like that doesn't happen again. And like, and also I think part of, you know, part of the, of the impact too is, is that your lens, be your, your lens on the world becomes so distorted by fear that it is hard to tell, you know, if you're in danger, if you're not or if things are okay or if things aren't or like if the person, you know, if the people that she's drawn to, she's, you know, now considers herself somebody who like, okay, I'm done with like love and relationships. I'm like. Because when I enter into that arena, like, it all goes wrong. You know, she, she thinks she's solved that problem by just like removing herself from the possibility of like having love or romance in her life. And, and in fact, like, you know, and to some degree, I think it's like, that is, she's, I, I, to me, I see Clarice as somebody who's like, in the middle of trying to heal. And the reality is, is that like, even as you're making those efforts and as you're doing, like, technically the right things, it's still really messy and lots of mistakes are made. And it doesn't, you know, it doesn't look like okay after a person's been in therapy for a year, like, they're gonna be better now and like, make all the right decisions and like, not be afraid anymore and like, not have the, like, not continue to be impacted by the, the trauma that they've experienced. Like, unfortunately, it's just, it, it does continue longer than that, you know, and, and like, and sometimes you are like, it doesn't, I don't think this means that like, a person is like, damaged in such a way that they're never able to, like, recover. But it's also like, some things just impact you forever, you know, like, some, some stuff is just like, it's imprinted in there and like, it's just a part of the way that you experience the world. And yeah, it changes your DNA, right? This summer, Prime Video takes you back before Legally Blonde, before law school, and into the world of Elle woods in high school. Set in 1995, this Gemini vegetarian knows exactly who she is until her family moves from Bel Air to Seattle. Packed with iconic fashion, 90s nostalgia, and a throwback soundtrack, Elle proves one thing. Lots of law school was hard. High school was harder. From the world of Legally Blonde, watch Elle, a new original series only on Prime Video. Watch now.
- [17:19]
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- [18:15]
Rebecca Buchanan
Can we talk a little bit about her name only because. Right. Like. Like I read, you know, I'm like, oh, I don't come across a lot of Clarisses in general. And then you make a nod to a very famous Clarice. Right? Was that. Can you talk about that? Like, was this a character who, like, this name came to you. You were like, I want to write this. Was this a kind of nod to sort of Silence of the Lambs? Can you.
- [18:38]
Anna Kira Stinson
Yeah, I mean, I think in part. You know, she. She says that thing that, like, her dad chose that name because he's a horror fan. And. And Clarice was the bravest woman he could think of, which I just thought was funny. You know, it's like not Amelia Earhart or something. You know, like, there's just, like, there's. That's the bravest woman that this person could think of. And also, I think, you know, there is this kind of like, looming specter of her father throughout the story that he. That his. The kind of, like, makeup of his character that we get to see through the book is one that's like, pretty. Pretty dark and pretty marginal at times. And, like, is. His influences are. I mean, those are the kinds of things that we are, you know, like, are attached to. His character are like Silence of the Lambs and the, you know, the cremation of Sam McGee poem and the, you know, he's. He's. And he's like an addict and an alcoholic. And so I think part. To me, there is something about, like, that. And I think I looked it up. I think, Clarice, the name means, like. I think it means light. I'm. Don't. I'm not total.
- [19:56]
Rebecca Buchanan
It totally does. We're gonna go with it, right?
- [19:58]
Anna Kira Stinson
Yeah, we're gonna go with that. But I just. I thought it was just a funny kind of thing where it was like this, you know, this woman, this is. She's really. She's. She's trying to go towards the light ultimately. And it's like. But all of her influences and all of her instincts are. Are pretty dark, you know, and, like, come. And that's kind of like her lineage is something that's. That is pretty dark and. But she is very messily trying to have. Have a life for herself and, you know, and to heal and. Yeah, so I think the name just did. Did kind of come to me, but. But it was definitely. I think I thought of it as like, as this kind of influence of, of her father where, you know, Clarice in that movie is there's some hope there with her or like she is, she is not the, you know, she's not Hannibal Lecter. Like, she's. Yeah, there's a little. There was some agency.
- [21:13]
Rebecca Buchanan
Could you. I would love for you to talk a little bit about your writing process. Like you kind of mentioned you were writing something else and this came to you. But can you talk about sort of writing and the process for you for writing this book in and what that's like?
- [21:27]
Anna Kira Stinson
Yeah, I think, you know, a lot of how I conceive of stories, it's like I'll potentially have like the idea of a story that comes to mind or like a plot of, of some kind that like pops to mind the way that anybody might have an inspiration for something. But like the thing that really, for me I need a kind of emotional engine. So it's. I do a lot of journaling and a lot of like just sort of free writing. And that is often basically where I find out what I'm concerned with, you know, and like what I want to look at or what I. Or how I want to connect to a story that I want to tell. And like, you know, in this case, this one was a lot about like the long term impacts of trauma and inheriting violence, inheriting sexual violence and the messy process of, of trying to, you know, take some control over your life when it feels like you have no map or like no guidance in, in any way on how to do that. And so I was interested in kind of all of those things, but. And I like, was inspired, you know. Yeah, partially by my own experiences, but partially just a plot that kind of came to mind. And that was essentially how I started to carve out nerve damage. And then I just did, you know, I did like in one document I did everything that was happening in the present, and in the another document I did everything that happened in the past. And I kind of like collaged those two things together. You know, right now I'm working on something else and I'm trying right now to sort of figure out what the emotional engine of that is. And a lot of it is just kind of, for me, a lot of it is like writing until it kind of tells me what I'm writing about. You know, like I'll have an idea about something and then I'll. I can feel, you know, sometimes I feel really lost while I'm doing it. But like that to me is just this sort of suggestion to keep trying and keep going until something makes itself clear, whether that be like a plot line or like a specific. Yeah. Emotional question that I'm asking or something. And then once I feel more confident in one of those two things, I can go deeper.
- [24:14]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah. You brought up the dual timeline. And I always, when I read books with dual timelines, I'm always interested in this kind of question because. So you do you write them both. And it's like some people are like, I just start at the beginning. I write. Some people write like one timeline and then the other timeline. Like, did you kind of. So you separated them in a document? Was this kind of like you would write one and then be like, oh, and I want to add this to the other. Can you talk a little bit about that? And like before you even put them together, how you kind of structured that?
- [24:43]
Anna Kira Stinson
Yeah, I mean, I, I pretty. I kind of wrote them concurrently, but it was. I knew that all of the actions and decisions Clarice was making in the present had to do. Like, the past was very present for her. So most of the things that I wanted to write about in the past, both things that had happened in her childhood, but also the actual relationship that she had with pt, her ex boyfriend who, who stalked her. I wanted those things. I wanted to organize the way that we, you know, the way that the reader received information. And also I wanted to connect what was happening in the present with, yeah, the specific points in the past that kind of were responsible for the, the decisions that she was making or the feelings that she was having. So I wanted, so I, I did feel like they were, you know, they were really intertwined in a way that it wasn't, it wasn't like she was, you know, like, I explained it to somebody. Like, it wasn't like she's like a high powered lawyer in New York City. And then at one point we like flashback to like her humble beginnings somewhere else. Like, there was, it was like, not only was a lot of the past that we were visiting in the book not that long ago, but it also was. Yeah, it was like very intertwined with the present timeline. So I think I did it in separate documents in part just because it really was just an organizational technique for me to make sure that I had all of the information that I thought was necessary to make what she was doing make a certain amount of sense. And, and also, you know, there is even, even if, you know, as you were saying, like you read, and some of the decisions that she's Making or the thoughts that she's having are like, oh, come on. You know, like, are not like.
- [26:58]
Rebecca Buchanan
But they make it the best way.
- [27:00]
Anna Kira Stinson
Yeah, it's like they're. I wanted to. I wanted it to. To make a certain amount of sense, you know, and I wanted there to be some for. For her actions, even if they weren't the healthiest or smartest things that she could be doing.
- [27:18]
Rebecca Buchanan
When you were writing, was there any. I mean, or maybe I should say, in revision, is there things that you completely changed or as you're writing, you're like, I did not think it was going to go in this direction, and that's the direction it went in. Right. What, are there some surprises, or was it just kind of like, yes, this is what I wanted. This is how it stayed.
- [27:39]
Anna Kira Stinson
I think, you know, from this vantage point, it feels like it didn't change that much from, like, the time that I finished my full first draft. I think when I actually started writing. Yeah, I remembered the other day, I was like, oh, I had planned for an entirely different ending initially. And I had forgotten that because then when I actually wrote, when I had, like, a first full draft, the structure of it didn't change all that much. But I think, you know, it's a little bit there sometimes. It does feel kind of like a. A mystical process or something, because you think, you know, what you're like. For me, anyway, it's like I think that I know what I'm doing or like, I make a plan for my. For the plot to go a certain way, and then once I write it, once I actually start writing the thing, it. Yeah, there's a lot of room for surprise or there's a lot of room for it to kind of. To. For the story to sort of show itself to me as I'm writing. But I do, you know, I do ultimately, like, try to plan things out or, like, plot things out. I think that if anybody ever looked at the way that I organized something, they would be so confused by it. Like, it would make zero amount of sense to anyone but me. It's not. I. I'm not somebody who's, like, doing the, like, you know, all the. The note cards or, like, having everything. It's like a completely strange, unique to me process that I have in terms of how I organize things and how I organize or planned for plot. But there is, I think in that. In the generating phase where I'm trying to get to, like, a first draft of a plot, there's. I think there's a lot of Room for surprise. Even if I. Even if. Even if things generally go in the direction that I was planning for, like, even within a scene, I think there's a lot of room for. Yeah. For. For surprise as to, like, what. What's actually there and what I'm. You know, what I'm. What I'm looking at.
- [29:58]
Rebecca Buchanan
Do you flesh out how much you. I mean, I should say how much do you kind of flesh out backstories for your minor characters? Right. Like, she had a number, like her best friend, her mom, her brother. Like, there's these relationships that she has that seem pretty. State, like, that feel pretty stable in her life and. And you get an idea of who these people are. So do you really flesh them out or do they come sort of more fleshed out as they need to be for your protagonist, if that makes sense.
- [30:28]
Anna Kira Stinson
Yeah, yeah, I think I do. I do flesh them out. I think there are a lot of. There were definitely diffe. I had, you know, longer scenes with Bunny and with her brother and stuff like that. There were, I think, by the end, a certain amount of claustrophobia that I wanted the reader to feel and that my editor also, I think, wanted it to be, like, pretty clean in terms of. Or contained, rather, in terms of her. The sort of intensity of her perspective and, like, her closed perspective and the fact that, like, you know, she does have these relationships and were able to see that there is depth in them, but also in this moment, she's so taken in her own brain. You know, she's just so deep in this. This quest that she's on. But, yeah, I think I did. I definitely. I definitely play around a lot with the backstories of all of the characters. And I think I. You know, it's interesting because I think something that. That is helpful about that is that, like, you can write three pages on a character or, you know, write a really intense scene that a character is in that never ends up in the book. But, like, a sentence describing that scene might end up in the book or, like, one detail from a conversation that you wrote out in another document might end up in the book in a way that feels specific enough that it gives a lot of depth to a character or is, you know, has a certain. Yeah. Just authenticity of detail I think that you can get from. Yeah. Going in deep with some of your characters even if you don't actually see all of that in the book.
- [32:29]
Rebecca Buchanan
Yeah, you mentioned the kind of. I like, when you talked about. You just mentioned, like, being contained. And I think there is this, like, manic feel to it. It, you know, in a way that like pushes you. Like, like you can feel that intensity that she feels because of that containment. And we get a little bit of like backstory at times that is like, okay, this is a little break. You know, it's not, not a relaxing break, but it's a little break from what's happening in there. So yeah, I get that containment. And so we have, we have been talking for a while so I'm going to ask you my final question. So Nerve Damage is out now. Anything you want people to know, anything you're working on now or anything with this novel? What self promote?
- [33:14]
Anna Kira Stinson
Well, yeah, I am working on something. I'm working on a new book now. I'm not totally sure what it is yet, so I think, but, but it's, you know, it's being, it's in its. I'm putting the ingredients together and yeah, I would say just to I guess go in with an open mind and I think there are, there are thriller elements to Nerve Damage, but I, I don't think it's, I think it's not, it's not a, it's certainly not like a straightforward thriller. I think it, it definitely, there's a lot of meditation on the impact, the long term impacts of trauma. So I think that's, you know, something to keep in mind while going into it, I guess. But ultimately, yeah, just to hopefully readers and enjoy or connect or find, find something worthwhile in there.
- [34:09]
Rebecca Buchanan
Awesome. Well, thank you so much again, Anna Kira, who is Stinson and the author of Nerve Damage. Thank you for talking with me on New Books Network.
- [34:16]
Anna Kira Stinson
Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to this episode of the New Books Network. We are an academic podcast network with the mission of public education. If you liked this episode, please share it with a friend and rate us on your preferred podcast platform. You can browse all of our episodes on our website newbooksnetwork.com Connect with us on Instagram and Bluesky with the handle ewbooksnetwork and subscribe to our weekly Substack newsletter at newbooksnetwork.substack.com to get episode recommendations straight to your inbox.
- [34:59]
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