New Books Network: Ariel Colonomos on "Pricing Lives: The Political Art of Measurement"

Date: September 9, 2025
Host: Leo Bader
Guest: Ariel Colonomos (CNRS Research Professor, Sciences Po)

Episode Overview

In this episode, Leo Bader interviews political theorist Ariel Colonomos about his book "Pricing Lives: The Political Art of Measurement" (Oxford UP, 2023). The discussion dives into the political, ethical, and practical dynamics of how societies and states assign value to human life—in war, policymaking, hostage situations, and beyond. Colonomos argues that the act of pricing lives is not merely a byproduct of politics, but constitutive of political life itself—shaping how societies negotiate between interests and moral imperatives.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Book and Main Thesis

Timestamps: 01:33 – 05:28

• Colonomos traces his interest in the topic to work on ethical dilemmas in global politics, especially questions of reparations, the ethics of war (e.g., proportionality), and hostage negotiations.
• He identifies a recurring "dual equation" in political decisions: balancing human lives against interests (political, economic, etc.).
• Colonomos stresses that recent decades have seen moral claims about the value of life become powerful counterweights to interest-based objectives.

Notable Quote:

"I came to realize that what were at stake were essentially two primary goods. And those goods were human lives on the one hand, and interests, whether political or economic interests." — Ariel Colonomos (04:10)

2. The Dual Equation: Paying For Lives & Paying With Lives

Timestamps: 05:28 – 09:38

• "Paying for lives": Making concessions (political, material, or economic) to save lives (e.g., negotiations, reparations).
• "Paying with lives": Sacrificing lives to uphold state interests (e.g., refusals to negotiate, collateral damage in war).
• This balancing act is inescapable for states and political actors.

Notable Quote:

"This balancing is based on a dual equation. That is: you pay for lives and you pay with lives, and states...do that all the time." — Ariel Colonomos (08:22)

3. Why Pricing Lives Constitutes Political Life

Timestamps: 09:38 – 13:57

• The recurrence of these dilemmas across political systems demarcates them as fundamental.
• The high stakes and visibility of these choices make them "spectacular" and polarizing, drawing public engagement.
• They engage traditions from consequentialist responsibility (Weber) to classical concepts of balance (Greek philosophy).
• Norms have shifted historically: “We pay for lives more than we did in the past, and we pay with lives less than we did in the past.”

Notable Quote:

"Pricing lives to me is constitutive of the political...because it happens so many times and you can see that in so many different countries...it's spectacular...it creates a public space of discussion." — Ariel Colonomos (10:29)

4. The Limits of Moral Philosophy vs. Political Reality

Timestamps: 13:57 – 17:02

• Moral philosophy often treats life as priceless (e.g., Kantian or religious perspectives), rejecting any commodification.
• Politics requires practical action—aggregation, measurement, and trade-offs—where interests must be balanced with the value of life.

Notable Quote:

"From a Kantian perspective, there is no way that you can put a price tag to a human life...But in politics, things play differently." — Ariel Colonomos (14:50)

5. Historical Perspectives: Shakespeare and the Pre-Modern Era

Timestamps: 17:02 – 22:40

• Colonomos discusses how literature, especially Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice and Henry V, explores the measurement of life “in times of peace” and “in times of war,” offering early models of balancing lives and interests before the modern nation-state.
• Pre-modern societies handled these questions through codes of honor and personal rule; norms like proportionality were not yet codified.

Notable Quote:

"The question of measure, of the measure of human lives is absolutely central in both plays." — Ariel Colonomos (18:26)

6. Modern States: Bureaucracy, Law, and Aggregation

Timestamps: 24:13 – 27:19

• With the emergence of the modern state, life-valuation decisions become codified, institutionalized, and regularized through bureaucracy and law (e.g., the laws of war, insurance policies).
• The “body politic” requires a balance between individual and collective interests for stable governance.

Notable Quote:

"With the emergence of a state, you need to build an administrative bureaucracy that has guidelines...a legal framework." — Ariel Colonomos (24:52)

7. The Role of Markets, Communities, and States in Pricing Lives

Timestamps: 27:19 – 33:47

• States dominate, but markets (insurance, actuarial metrics like the "value of statistical life") and communities (religious or family groups, e.g., debates in the Talmud or Islamic law on ransoms and reparations) play distinct roles.
• Tensions arise when these spheres have divergent values on the same issue (e.g., negotiating for hostages).

Notable Moment:

"The value of a life is high when people accept to spend a high amount of money in order to protect themselves from a danger that is set in probabilistic terms and that has a low probability." — Ariel Colonomos (29:19)

8. Tensions Within and Across Societies

Timestamps: 33:47 – 35:43

• The Israeli hostage crisis is a current example of intense debates between the state’s strategic calculus and the personal/community imperative to rescue loved ones.
• Family groups of hostages form communities whose priorities conflict with those of the broader state or security establishment.

Notable Quote:

"[The] family of hostages have created a community...and within their community, of course you need to pay the ransom, of course you need to compensate. The state...wants to follow its interest..." — Ariel Colonomos (34:11)

9. Distance, Inequality, and the Challenge to Cosmopolitanism

Timestamps: 35:43 – 44:08

• "Distance" (geographical, temporal, cultural) affects the value ascribed to lives; distant or future lives are systematically discounted.
• This presents a dilemma for cosmopolitan ideals—states have primary duties to citizens, but Colonomos urges greater effort towards valuing distant lives through international cooperation (e.g., global frameworks on hostages, disaster response insurance).
• The current world is not ready for full cosmopolitan equality in valuing lives, but can evolve toward more balanced frameworks.

Notable Quote:

"It struck me as something very unfair that lives at a distance would be and are discounted...But in some cases it's not only related to poverty." — Ariel Colonomos (36:28)
"What would be important...is to build the framework for a global insurance. And this is something that is lacking and this cannot be made solely at the state level." — Ariel Colonomos (43:18)

Memorable Quotes

• On the political core of pricing lives:
  "This balancing is central for the equilibrium of the system. And that's how a state function." — Ariel Colonomos (25:57)

• On the ongoing challenge:
  "The world we live in [is] not the world we would like to live in, but as far as we are concerned, in the world that we live in, states are defined as organizations that have primary responsibility vis a vis their citizens." — Ariel Colonomos (40:25)

Key Timestamps for Reference

• Genesis of Book & Main Thesis: 01:33–05:28
• Paying For / With Lives: 05:28–09:38
• Constitutive Nature in Politics: 09:38–13:57
• Moral Philosophy vs. Political Reality: 13:57–17:02
• Pre-Modern Cases (Shakespeare): 17:02–22:40
• States & Bureaucracies: 24:13–27:19
• Markets, States, Communities: 27:19–33:47
• Hostage Dilemmas/Community-State Tensions: 33:47–35:43
• Distance, Cosmopolitanism, Global Justice: 35:43–44:08

Conclusion

Colonomos’ exploration reveals that the act of assigning value to life is not just a technical or economic question, but a deeply political act—one that exposes the moral, practical, and often painful calculations at the heart of political life. While moral philosophy may treat life as priceless, political actors must constantly balance—and thus measure and price—life against conflicting interests. The conversation offers a nuanced look at how these measurements have evolved and continue to shape contemporary public debates, from war to healthcare to international hostage crises.

Recommendation:
The host encourages listeners to read Colonomos’s book for a deeper look into these issues, highlighting its relevance for understanding everything from international policy to everyday political choices.