Podcast Episode Summary
Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Lee Vincl
Guest: Ashley Green Wade
Episode: Ashleigh Wade on How Black Girls Use Social Media
Date: September 29, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode explores Ashley Green Wade's new book, Black Girl Autopoetics: Agency and Possibility in Everyday Digital Practice, which delves into how Black girls use social media as spaces for self-expression, creativity, and self-making. The conversation emphasizes a nuanced, balanced approach to understanding the digital lives of Black girls, moving beyond deficit perspectives often amplified in media and academic discourse. Wade shares her research methods, ethical reflections, and the ways Black girls innovate and assert agency online.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Genesis of the Project and Motivations
- Teacher Origins: Ashley began as a high school teacher, observing how digital life affected Black girls lacking a sense of belonging in school.
- "I wanted to know more about what was actually happening on the phone ... I wondered if there was something that social media was providing ... that they weren’t getting in school." (07:52)
- Interdisciplinary Approach: She combines backgrounds in English, women’s and gender studies, and media studies to examine digital spaces.
2. Research Methodology & Ethics
- Ethnography (“deep hanging out”):
- In-person participant observation as a volunteer teacher in Richmond, VA.
- Digital ethnography through Instagram DMs and analysis of social media posts.
- Ethical Challenges: Balancing power dynamics as both educator and researcher, and deliberately choosing not to reproduce girls' public images for reasons of future re-interpretation and safety.
- "Even though in this moment they may feel comfortable with whatever they have posted ... five or ten years from now, they might think, 'Oh, I wish I wouldn't have posted that.'" (19:44, Ashley)
- Creative Visuals: Commissioned abstract illustrations instead of using actual photos and involved a 12-year-old Black girl, Kya McBride, for cover art.
- "It was important for me for a Black girl to do the cover because ... I wanted Black girls to see themselves and hear themselves in the work." (24:23, Ashley)
3. Why "Black Girl" is Central
- Draws on Ruth Nicole Brown and Black girlhood studies, refusing to conflate girlhood and womanhood.
- "It's important for us to recognize girlhood as a distinct stage of life ... that deserves its own theoretical musings." (27:33, Ashley)
- Advocates for seeing girls as theorists and agents, not just as "women in training."
4. Balancing Harm and Possibility in Digital Life
- Acknowledging Risks: Cyberbullying, sexualization, and platform exploitation are real issues.
- "I'm not trying to be on the opposite end and just be like, 'Oh, no, it's all rainbows and unicorns.' ... I wanted a book where Black girls could read it ... and say, 'Oh yes, this is me.'" (33:10–34:57, Ashley)
- Countering Deficit Models: Focuses on Black girls' creativity, agency, and non-pathological realities.
5. Concepts Explored in the Book
- Autopoiesis & Rupture: Drawing from Sylvia Wynter, Wade uses “autopoiesis” to conceptualize self-making and the possibility for agency and rupture within dominant digital systems.
- "Autopoiesis then becomes this process of self making, but it's also a rupture within a bigger system ... and Black girls are saying, no, that's not what it is." (40:11, Ashley)
- Self-Fashioning Across Platforms: Instagram for wider/public personas (business, self-esteem, college), Snapchat (at the time) for close friends and private interactions.
- "There are all these different ways that they're using Instagram as a way to ... communicate themselves to an outside world. And Snapchat was ... for my friends." (45:05-46:25, Ashley)
6. Spatiality and Surveillance
- Richmond context: Racialized spatial divisions (East and West End); heightened surveillance affects how Black girls present and protect themselves online.
- "The girls in the East End were very guarded about sharing information ... because they're always being watched ... police are always patrolling. ... They saw me as ... an agent of this surveillance." (47:27, Ashley)
- Digital spaces are intertwined with physical geography and worldviews.
7. Archiving and Representation
- The historical lack of Black girls in formal archives and the instability of digital formats raise concerns about preserving their stories.
- "The book itself is an archive ... for us to keep writing about how Black girls are using social media ... that is an archive too." (51:27, Ashley)
- Archiving the Black Web Project: A collaborative effort to systematically preserve Black digital histories.
8. Hypervisibility & Creative Self-Assertion
- Explores how some Black girls intentionally seek hypervisibility online, subverting respectability through:
- Ratchet Performativity: Embracing non-conformity and rejecting respectability politics.
- "This is what I want to do ... and that's how I'm going to act." (56:07, Ashley)
- Sexualization: Advocacy for recognizing sexual agency in adolescence while condemning predatory behaviors and platform exploitation.
- "The way to protect Black girls from hypersexualization is not by policing what they're doing with their own bodies." (61:28, Ashley)
- Flexing: Refusing to “dim their light,” using talents like dance and hair-braiding as self-promotion and entrepreneurship.
- "Flexing is the very opposite of that. It’s like, 'No, I’m here. You’re gonna see me ... whether you want to or not.'" (63:16, Ashley)
- Ratchet Performativity: Embracing non-conformity and rejecting respectability politics.
9. Activism Online
- Highlights youth organizing, e.g., Marley Dias’s 1000 Black Girl Books campaign, Black Lives Matter In All Capacity, and Art Ho Collective.
- "They didn't see the fact that they were young as a limiting factor in their activism." (67:03, Ashley)
- Activism as a means to reclaim agency when institutions fail Black girls.
10. Looking Ahead — Children as Content Creators
- Wade’s next project will examine how family and child influencers fundamentally reshape conceptions of childhood, labor, and development.
- "There’s something about content creation that either obscures the fact that this is child labor or makes people look at it differently ... as if this isn't actually labor." (73:51, Ashley)
- Considers the democratization, risks, and nuanced impacts of influencer culture on children.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On optimism in research:
"I have a tendency to be very optimistic, which is not celebrated in academia." – Ashley Green Wade [33:10] -
On self-making as rupture:
"Autopoiesis then becomes this process of self making, but it's also a rupture within a bigger system ... and Black girls are saying, no, that's not what it is." – Ashley Green Wade [40:11] -
On archival urgency:
"The book itself is an archive ... for us to keep writing about how Black girls are using social media." – Ashley Green Wade [51:27] -
On ratchet performativity:
"Black girls who are engaging in irrational behavior online ... say, like, I actually don't care about your respectability politics – this is what I want to do." – Ashley Green Wade [56:07] -
On protecting Black girls:
"The way to protect Black girls from hypersexualization is not by policing what they're doing with their own bodies ... Black girls are not the problem. The problem is the people who are hypersexualizing Black girls." – Ashley Green Wade [61:28] -
On flexing and self-worth:
"Flexing is the very opposite of that. It’s like, ‘No, I’m here. You’re gonna see me, like, whether you want to or not.’" – Ashley Green Wade [63:16]
Important Timestamps
- 06:45 – Book’s purpose: Balancing negative and positive narratives of Black girls and social media.
- 07:52 – Wade’s teaching background and observations leading to the study.
- 10:41 – Ethnography and Instagram interviews.
- 15:04 – Navigating ethical dilemmas and IRB process.
- 19:44 – Refusing to reproduce girls’ images despite public availability.
- 24:23 – Involving Black girls in every part, including the cover art.
- 27:33 – The theoretical importance of "Black girl" over "woman".
- 33:10 – Balancing discourse on risks and agency.
- 40:11 – Explaining autopoiesis and rupture.
- 45:05 – Platform differences: Instagram (public) vs. Snapchat (in-group).
- 47:27 – Spatiality: Surveillance affecting self-presentation.
- 51:27 – Archival challenges of digital Black girlhood.
- 55:22 – Three forms of hypervisibility.
- 61:28 – Critique on victim-blaming and platform responsibility.
- 63:16 – Flexing: Affirmation amid cultural pressures.
- 67:03 – Examples of Black girl activism.
- 73:51 – New research focus: Family and child influencer dynamics.
Tone & Style
Throughout, Ashley Green Wade’s tone is empathetic, critical, and celebratory. The conversation is accessible while grounded in theory, constantly moving between academic insight and practical, real-world experiences of Black girls. Lee Vincl’s enthusiastic engagement draws out reflections to help listeners grasp why this work offers a necessary corrective to mainstream digital studies.
Final Takeaway
This episode is a vital listen for anyone interested in media studies, digital youth cultures, Black feminist theory, or ethnography. It showcases the complexity, creativity, and agency of Black girls online, urging scholarship and public discourse to see beyond stereotypes and pathologies, celebrating Black girls as theorists, creators, and agents in rapidly changing digital worlds.