Podcast Summary

Podcast & Episode Details

• Podcast: New Books Network — African American Studies Channel
• Episode: Ashley D. Farmer, "Queen Mother: Black Nationalism, Reparations, and the Untold Story of Audley Moore" (Pantheon, 2025)
• Date: October 25, 2025
• Host: Omari Averitt Phillips
• Guest: Dr. Ashley Farmer

Main Theme

This episode centers on Dr. Ashley D. Farmer's new biography of Audley "Queen Mother" Moore, a pivotal but under-recognized figure in Black nationalism and reparations activism throughout the 20th century. The conversation explores Moore’s transformative life, the archival challenges of capturing her story, her tactical flexibility as an organizer, and the implications of her activism for understanding Black freedom struggles and political imagination.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Dr. Ashley Farmer’s Background and the Book’s Origins (01:27–04:58)

• Personal Roots in History

  • Farmer grew up in Nashville, Tennessee, in a family of Fisk University alumni with a deep appreciation for Black, especially Southern, history.
  • Early exposure to archives: Her father’s introduction of her to the Fisk University archives underscored the importance of stories and historical preservation.
  • Quote: “I really grew up in a house where people valued history...made me always know that there was a more complete story happening.” (01:49; Farmer)

• How the Moore Project Emerged

  • Farmer’s early academic focus was Black women in the Caribbean, but repeated stories about Audley Moore during her first book’s research sparked her interest.
  • Initial attempts to find scholarship on Moore revealed an archival void, leading her to start her own collection over years.
  • Quote: “I had just never seen somebody who was kind of at every major moment in black American history in the 20th century, yet nowhere...in the archive all at once.” (04:37; Farmer)

2. Who Was Audley Moore? Historical Significance (05:22–09:25)

• Moore's Transformative Life
  • Born in 1898, died 1997—spanning nearly the entire 20th century.
  • Early privilege in New Orleans turned to hardship after the death of her parents; Moore became a caretaker for her sisters and worked as a domestic.
  • Garveyite Beginnings: Introduction to Marcus Garvey in a dramatized encounter with police repression—Moore armed and present for Garvey’s bold speech.
  • Quote: “She says that she was on her way to becoming a ‘bourgeois little stinker.’” (05:48; Farmer, quoting Moore’s own terminology)
  • Involvement in Garvey movement led to Harlem activism and a decades-long activist journey through the Communist Party, Black nationalist groups, and the reparations movement.
  • Moore is likened to a Forrest Gump figure for her omnipresence at seminal moments, but also as an ideological architect—especially for reparations and Black nation-state advocacy.
  • Quote: “She is carrying the central ideological infrastructure of a separate black nation state in reparations...both kind of there, but also an architect of this moment.” (08:56; Farmer)

3. Archival Challenges and Historical Methodology (09:25–14:11)

• Why Moore Is Not Better Documented
  • Social/archival bias favors young, male, single-period figures; Moore defied these patterns (long life span, moved across ideologies, woman, minimal formal education).
  • Moore’s limited written documentation: “She’s kind of thinking in motion...not conducive to creating stacks of paper as evidence of one’s importance.” (10:10; Farmer)
  • Surveillance fills the gap: FBI tracked Moore from the 1920s–1970s, their files became the most complete archive.
  • Ethical dilemmas of using state surveillance as historical evidence.
  • Quote: “The most kind of complete accounting of her life is actually her FBI file.” (11:12; Farmer)
  • Farmer’s detective work—likened to tracing light around a black hole—shows the necessity of expanding the definition of evidence in Black women’s intellectual histories.

4. Rethinking Historical Research and Evidence (14:11–16:26)

• Lessons from a Nontraditional Archive
  • “Nothing is off limits”—Moore’s alliances crossed ideological lines (even with club women, Communists) as survival and strategic choices.
  • Rethinking evidence: Poems, songs, and cultural expression as intellectual production, even when “her poetry is also really horrible...But it really does show that this is what was on her mind at that particular moment and the best that she could feel and express it.” (15:48; Farmer)
  • Broader lesson: Be open to finding history in unexpected places, and recast what counts as sources for marginalized figures.

5. Tactical Flexibility as Survival and Strategy (16:26–19:01)

• Moore’s Evolving Organizing Tactics
  • Core goals: Black nationhood, self-determination, self-defense, community control.
  • Strategic adaptation: Sometimes advancing her agenda in overtly nationalist organizations, sometimes working “through the political center” (Communists, club women) for practical gains while nudging broader change.
  • “I kind of liken it to she set her compass towards black nationalist liberation...but she also understood that isn’t going to happen in one fell swoop.” (17:43; Farmer)
  • Case studies: Universal Association of Ethiopian Women—combining direct service with consciousness-raising about systemic injustice and alternative futures.
  • Moore used every avenue—legal, political, cultural—to pursue both immediate relief and long-term, radical change.

6. Reorienting Understandings of Black Nationalism, Freedom Struggles, and Reparations (19:01–21:21)

• Broader Implications of Moore’s Life
  • Expands the cast of Black nationalists, centering women like Moore and Virginia Collins.
  • “Black women as key architects of the black freedom struggle” —not simply background figures, but authors of strategies, institutions, and ideas.
  • Moore’s evolving thought provides a model for considering movement figures as dynamic, not frozen in one period or set of beliefs.
  • Quote: “It is remarkable for the things that she held fast to. But it is remarkable to also watch a thinking person evolve...which is something we all need more of.” (20:33; Farmer)

7. Intended Audience and Takeaways (21:21–24:12)

• Audience

  • For those influenced by Moore, students of Black nationalism’s sweep, and anyone interested in biography as a vehicle for political and historical reflection.
  • Moore’s persistence serves as a model of “how to stay the course...whether or not...you think black nationalism is the way forward for black people.” (22:45; Farmer)

• Key Lessons

  • Black women’s leadership and imaginative power are indispensable to American political development.
  • Black nationalism as a tradition encourages radical reimagining beyond received categories of identity, citizenship, and belonging.
  • “They are a constant reminder that nothing has to be this way.” (23:25; Farmer)
  • Political imagination and willingness to dream alternatives—Moore as an inspiration even for those who disagree with her conclusions.

8. Farmer’s Current and Future Projects (24:12–25:14)

• After the years invested in "Queen Mother," Farmer is considering a next project on FBI surveillance of Black women activists; interested in its impact on reconstructing lives and the ethical complexities involved.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Moore’s Absence from Archives: “The most complete accounting of her life is actually her FBI file. Moore was tracked by the FBI from about the 1920s through the 1970s, sometimes daily. So that became an archive in and of itself...” (11:12; Farmer)
• On Black Women’s Intellectual Production: “I have a recording that I wish could accompany the book of her singing. She has the worst voice. And her poetry is also really horrible...But it really does show that this is what was on her mind in that particular moment...” (15:41; Farmer)
• On Tactical Flexibility: “Every decision that she made tried to move her [toward liberation], but she also understood that isn’t going to happen in one fell swoop. So what can you do to mitigate harm for black people on a daily basis while moving?” (17:45; Farmer)
• On Political Imagination: “What I appreciate about [black nationalism] is that those who are the key theoreticians of it offer us really great ideas of how else we could be. And they are a constant reminder that nothing has to be this way.” (23:23; Farmer)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:32 — Dr. Ashley Farmer’s family background & beginnings as a historian
• 03:26 — Genesis of interest in Audley Moore & the book’s conception
• 05:22 — Moore’s biography and formative political experiences
• 09:25 — The problem of missing archives and Moore’s unconventional record
• 14:11 — Lessons learned about doing history on under-documented figures
• 16:51 — Tactical flexibility and its meaning for Moore’s organizing
• 19:01 — How Moore reshapes our understanding of Black nationalism
• 21:21 — Intended audience and larger messages for readers
• 24:12 — Future research on surveillance, archives, and ethics

Tone and Language

Dr. Farmer is personable, candid, and deeply reflective—her anecdotes are rich and grounded, her analysis both rigorous and accessible. The conversation blends personal storytelling, historical analysis, and advocacy for a broader, more inclusive practice of history.

Conclusion

This conversation with Dr. Ashley Farmer reshapes our understanding of Black nationalism by spotlighting Audley Moore’s lifelong radicalism and adaptability. It underscores Black women’s indispensable role in the Black freedom struggle and urges historians to expand their methodological boundaries. Farmer’s work is a prompt—to dream bigger, search harder, and write more inclusive histories.