C (6:24)

Thank you, dear Jonathan, Dear colleagues, Dear audience of this broadcast, watching us from different continents, this event brought together those who are interested in Jewish literature, culture and history for whom the Lithuanian Jewish heritage is relevant and interesting. In recent years, the National Library of Lithuania has become one of the most important institutions that preserve the documentary heritage of Lithuanian Jews. Our library, firmi, follows the strategy to increase the dissemination of documentary heritage to strengthen the understanding of the society about the history of the ethnic communities of our country. Expert of the National Library, in cooperation with researchers of our country and foreign partners, carry out publishing projects for the dissemination of Jewish documentary heritage. And the book presented today is the first result of the project. The publishing partner for this book is the YIVO Institute for Jewish Research in New York. I sincerely thank our partners for that joint work. I'm sure that together we will continue this work. I also want to thank the colleagues from our library and partners, Mendel Kratowskas, Sigurdija Khelebenskayev, for their input to this publication. Thank you for your kind attention.

B (7:59)

Now I would like to introduce Dr. Mindaugas Kidkowskis, who is a literary scholar, writer and translator. Since the beginning of 2019, Professor Kutkowskas has also served as Lithuania's Minister of Culture. As far as I know, he is the only Minister of Lithuanian culture. Maybe there was one other who was also fluent in the Yiddish language. Before becoming a minister, Kvitkauskas worked at the Lithuanian Institute of Literature and Folklore in Vilnius for many years and managed the institution in 2008 through 2018. Witkowskas acquired a PhD at Vilnius University, studied Yiddish language literature at the University of Oxford center for Hebrew and Judaic Studies. He has done internships at YIVO as well as Yale University. His main areas of research are multinational literary modernism and urban culture in Lithuania and East Central Europe. Kwitkauskas is an author of two academic monographs, a collection of poetry, and a book of literary essays, the Port Fugue. Kwitkauskas has translated several books from Polish and Yiddish, including works by Czesaw Miwosz and Avram Sutzkever. Recently, Kvitkowskas has translated the Vilnius Ghetto Diary, written by teenager Yitzhak Rugoszewski in 2018, the original manuscript of which is in the in in the YIVO Institute in New York. He has compiled the Unlocked Diary about a young Jewish poet, Matilda Olkin, and homage Amoir Verre, a publication accompanying the reprint of a photo album the Ghetto Lane in Vilna by Bauhaus trained painter and photographer Moshe Rabib Robycik. The above mentioned books were supplemented with introductory articles by Klutkowskas, and it is a real pleasure to welcome him to this panel to read the poems of Sutzburg in Yiddish and Lithuanian and English.

C (10:31)

Thank you, thank you. Dear Jonathan, dear participants, dear colleagues from Yivo, Dear Justin, it's a real pleasure to meet with you all here and as Jonathan Brand just said, I will start by reading a poem from this very special publication, a publication of a collection of poetry almost 80 almost after 80 years from from the time when it was prepared as a manuscript book in the Vilna Ghetto. This poem was composed on the same day that we are meeting today, 23rd November 1942, in the Vilna Ghetto. And I will read it in Yiddish, then in English translation made by David Fishman, and then I will read my Lithuanian translation. It's a poem about a miracle. And the publication of this book is also a true miracle. The rescue of this manuscript from the Vilna Ghetto Somnes bisdo bisdo bist lebedeker karen in teuter scholfer vehicled vna bisto bisto unvestahilf mirvaran bashas diched dervareman main way. On the haleinvest omnes bashvern the itzter ich mitvarimkheit von treern as ielt dertoid half coiling scharfen riter a durf zifter, Oyg du West, Nid Farleif and Zeina Zamweg. I need very dear dreesen while oigh arness. Now an English translation made by David Fishman, who was also a co editor and co translator of this book. A prayer to the miracle. You are here. You are here. You are a living seed wrapped like an egg inside its dead shell. You are here, you are here. You will help me in my need and I will warm you with my pain. I am naked in the frost, yet I warm comfortably your dead shell. Have mercy, mercy. You will have to hatch and free yourself from the braces of the world. And then your glands with mine will meet and hang between me and murder. Make a miracle, you will yourself implore, as I do now. With a warmth of a tear. Death is rushing, riding on a bullet head to shoot its poison through my vein. One more second and I'll be led. If you don't catch up, be a rain catch up. If not, you will lament. A miracle must also have a moral sense. And now at least this stanza from a Lithuanian translation, Ashnuages. So as I have just told the story of this book and this manuscript is also a miracle, perhaps a proof that finally a miracle had its mercy on the poet. The story of this manuscript and other manuscripts, that they're saved in the Vilna Ghetto, that they're saved after the Second World War, can be told as a very rich detective story. It was also told by David Fishman in his book on the paper brigade that functioned in the Vilna Ghetto. It will be told this evening by Lara Lampert, who found a very special trove of manuscripts still hidden in the National Library of Lithuania. And Sutskever's Collection of poems, 10 poems, 10 lieder in Yiddish, was one of the most special discoveries in that trove of manuscripts from the Vilna Ghetto. And I recall very vividly the moment when I was invited to the National Library and Lara Lampert showed me Sutskever's manuscripts and this special handmade notebook. Immediately the impression was that this is a discovery, a true discovery of a handmade poetry collection by Abraham Sutzkever that was made in the ghetto itself. And it had all characteristics of a manuscript book. It seemed from the very beginning, when I saw seemed as a book arranged according to a poetic concept, not just a draft of some poems, not just a collection of some particular texts. It is a special collection made by the poet for his audience in the Vilna Ghetto. It is Made around a clear concept. Because all the 10 poems in this manuscript collection are united by one special feature. We are all dedications, dialogues or prayers. They all address somebody, a person, a close person, a beloved person, a dead person, lost ones or a metaphysical power, God or miracle. They are all conversations. It is a special example of a dialogical attitude towards the world where the dialogue between people is being destroyed. And because of that, it is a very strong example of cultural and poetical and spiritual resistance against the power that tries to break links, ties between people, between the community. And we tried together with a book designer, Siguta Klebenskayte, to make this book as authentic as possible. This book presents the authentic photo images, high resolution photo images of a manuscript itself. It's manuscript graphics, which is also a very special feature of this book. It renders the original Yiddish text as accurately as. As possible. And it also tells the story of this manuscript. In David Fishman's and my introductory articles, we describe the context, a very special context in which this manuscript was written. It's May 1943, an eve of a final destruction of the Vilna Ghetto. Eve of the uprising of the Vilna Ghetto partisan organization, the fpo. And one can only perhaps guess and imagine the situation in which the poet composed this collection and probably left it as a possible testament. The existence of his collection was previously unknown. We know the fact that the first collection published by Sutskever after the Holocaust was in 1945. It was his first collection, Defestung, that appeared after the Holocaust. And now after this discovery, it appeared that already in the Vilna Ghetto. Abraham Sutskever made this manuscript poetry collection. And it changes his literary biography and makes it possible for us now to have a touch and experience of poetry that was written in the very eye of the Holocaust tragedy in Vilna. Thank you so much.

B (21:50)

Now I have tremendous pleasure in introducing a colleague and really the person who has held together the program that we've been collaborating on in Lithuania, Dr. Lara Lempert, who is the head of the Judaic Research center at the Documentary Heritage Department in the National Library of Lithuania and the curator of its Judaica collection. Her field of expertise is the cultural history of the European and of European and Lithuanian Jewry. She is an author of numerous articles and an editor of several books. She is, moreover, a teacher, a great inspiration to a new generation of young scholars who have come to explore these treasures that she has. Helped to preserve and make public. So, Laura,

D (23:07)

thank you, dear Jonathan, for that kind introduction and it is almost incredible to be in that surroundings, among people who actually have no access to each other now in that condition, and now suddenly we do have a connection and we do have things to discuss together in that very, very warm and emotional surroundings. And I'm happy for that opportunity. Thank you. In the summer of 2017, a discovery was made at the National Library, which almost overnight changed the status of that institution, or maybe more correctly would be to say that added significantly to that status. The National Library, as a major memory institution in our country, was already, for many years already known as a safekeeper of a huge massive collection of Jewish materials, and I mean mainly published materials, books and periodicals. And on that materials we collaborated for a couple of years, for a number of years with the YIVO Institute and other institutions. But the discovery I have in mind, and what I mentioned, was a discovery of almost about 120,000 of pages of new documents, really manuscripts, photographs, playbills and other kinds of documents that made the National Library as well a major archives of Jewish materials on the scale of our country and maybe even on the world scale. And of course, Evil Institute, as our faithful partner, was almost immediately informed and excited as we were. And also he tremendously helped us on initial stages of sorting and identifying these treasures by sending its experts. One of the first, or maybe the first expert, was Professor David Fishman, whom Mindaugasperkowsk has already mentioned. He spent here just several days the same summer, and it coincided with the final stages of his work on his already acclaimed monograph, the book Smugglers, which was already mentioned. But when he came, we didn't know to what extent the coincidence will go. And I recall very vividly an episode of the last day of Professor Fishman's visit, actually last hours of his work at the library. When we decided to open just one more box, it would be the last box we would produce together. In that box the poetry of Avrom Sutskever, the poetry written in the Vilna Ghetto was found a Rome Sutzkever, who was also one of the main heroes of David Fishman's book. And what was in that box? And after that, several more boxes. As Mindo Gaspotkowskas told already, there were all kinds of examples of Sutzkivers at Vilna Ghetto, drafts, fair copies and several manuscript books. Not one, several of them, practically, as was told, prepared to publication or to dissemination. And after the first avalanche of emotion has subsided, I truly can't say it subsided even now, fully, I decided that we just can't have it all to ourselves, and only at the safety of the library shelves or archives shelves in the manuscript department, we have an obligation actually to share this treasure to the public and after consultations with the colleagues in the library and after securing the Mindo Gasket Kauska's agreement as a renowned Yiddishist and translation of the works of Lithuanian Jewish authors from Yiddish into Lithuanian to collaborate on that project. Of course, we approached also the colleagues because of whom this discovery was made and by whom the discovery was made, and I mean the Yivo Institute and Professor Fishman. Luckily, not much persuasion was needed because every one of us, of us here in Vilnius and in New York understood an immense obligation, responsibility and also importance of sharing this work of Sutskever from the Vilna Ghetto with and not only because every work of such a great Yiddish poet, one of the greatest modern Yiddish poets, is very important. Every, you know, every line of such poet, new line, newly discovered line, is important, but also because it is a testament to his indestructible human spirit and that special, almost unnatural creativity that manifested itself in the view of fear, danger and everyday death in the horrific circumstances of Vilnius data. And my part in the project was very humble as a coordinator and compiler of the book, but I was very lucky and privileged to work with several people with a team to whom I would like now to extend my deepest gratitude. It is of course, the translators and the authors of articles accompanying scientific articles, Mindaugas Kratkauskas and David Fishman. It is the editor of the English part of the publication, Jonathan Brand. It is the book artist Siguta Klebenskayte, and also all the colleagues in Lithuanian National Library and in the Yivo Institute who actually supported the idea. And there are more of those people. They supported the idea and make the book 10 poems dashing became a reality. Thank you so much.

B (30:45)

Thank you, Lara. I wish now to introduce our last panelist, Justin Kammy, who will be the discussant for a conversation among the panelists. Justin is chair and Associate professor of Jewish Studies and World Literatures at Smith College and a Senior Fellow of the Goldbreich Institute for Yiddish at Tel Aviv University. He is author of the introduction to the Full Pomegranate, a recent volume of poetry translated by Richard Fine. Tammy's own translation of Slutzkever's memoir, Vilnique of the Vilna Ghetto, will appear with McGill Queen's University Press in 2021. Justin.

A (31:35)

Thank you, Jonathan. And I can't tell you how pleased I am to join my distinguished colleagues In Lithuania. I was there, it seems like a world ago, a year and a half ago, speaking at that very library. And I can't wait to return to work with all of you. In my brief remarks today, I want to focus on three points that build upon what the Minister of Culture mentioned in his remarks. The materiality of this volume, the context of this manuscript, and the poetic logic of the collection. I think that we would be well served by thinking just for a moment about the materiality of this manuscript. What does it mean that it was handwritten by the authority, reproduced for a future reader, and ostensibly hidden? And how does its hiddenness and now its discovery provide it with extra literary import, with the cultural authority of an artifact, or with aura, as Walter Binjamin might have suggested? I had the pleasure of seeing this text at the library in Lithuania, and the ability to feel the paper, to see the ink blots, to see how Sutzgrever begins with a blue pen, but then has to change to a black pen, where assumedly he runs out of ink. The paratext at the end of the manuscript with notes from something else that suggests that the paper was reused. The places where Sutzkover crosses out words, or the places where Sutzkover underlines certain words. Words. These are all moments that one can't normally get in a reproduced volume. And in that sense, I think this manuscript performs itself. It's almost breathless in the way you see Sutzkover's writing. It isn't straight on the page, but angular. The Yiddish goes down. He doesn't have the chance necessarily to write in a straight way. It goes down the page to the right, as if done in a rush. And the inside cover shows a title that is self confident, a signature that is almost unreadable, and a title in San Liddell 10 poems in which you see a sharp angle for the lamed in a way to perform its own self confidence. Now to my second point, the context. Sutzgrafer dates this manuscript to May 1943. So we might want to ask what is taking place beyond the editing and recopying of this volume in May 1943 in Sutzkever's life? So we know that Sutsgrev is a member of the paper brigade, responsible for sorting books and archives as a slave laborer. We know that it's compiled and written at a moment when the FPO is in the advanced stages of making its plans for defending the the ghetto. But what else might have been going on when Stuttzgrubber was writing this out well, we know from his memoir that he was assigned to work at the train station in Vilnius in May 1943. And at that point he was gathering materials that were being shipped from the Smolensk Museum. And along with the materials shipped from the Smolensk Museum were also children who were shipped. And he writes, the following 10 wagons stuffed with little children ranging from the ages of 3 to 10, arrived with the museum contents. Each cart was guarded by a German who made sure that the little ones didn't escape. The conductor passed by and said that the children were being sent to Ponnar. That's when the workers approached the Germans and asked, perhaps these children are for sale. Seeing the potential, the guards raised their price. 10 marks per child, 15 marks per child. And that's how things proceeded until the price finally settled at 30 marks per child. We managed to ransom almost all the children and save them from Ponhar. When I later opened the crates, I discovered the diary of the valet to Peter the Great, ecclesiastical chronicles from the 15th and 16th centuries, and many other museum pieces. I brought a portion of these objects to the ghetto and where I buried them. And I did so because I could not be certain that they would remain intact in the municipal archives. I hoped that they would be protected in at least one of these two locations. So we see from this brief memoiristic episode that he is both dealing with life and with objects, at one of the same time with the living future of the Jewish people, and at the same time with objects of museum quality that he then decides need to be preserved in the ground and buried to be protected for those very future generations that might outlive him. Another. What else is going on in May 1943? Well, the first secret print shop is established with the help of the United Partisans organization. And on May 1, 1943, Sutzkever remarks that there is a May Day celebration that takes place in the ghetto. And who attends that May Day celebration along with Sutskover and the ghetto residents? None other than Lithuanian librarian Ona Schimaite, who is also in the hall. She comes to the ghetto to participate in the celebrations as a sign of solidarity. So in the same way that we see the solidarity between the YIVO Institute and the Lithuanian National Library, we already have a precedent for that in the ghetto in terms of a Lithuanian librarian going to the ghetto and in order to preserve what's going on. And finally, I want to talk a little bit about the logic of these selections. As the Minister of Culture noted, this is possibly the first edited volume of Sutzkever's Ghetto Poetry. It precedes both di Festung of 1945 and Liederfungeto of 1946. And what's interesting is that those volumes that I just mentioned only include one and three poems, respectively, that appear in this volume. Of course, these poems then later appear in different form in his collected works, but they aren't included in the most immediate published works from 1945 and 1946, for the most part. It's also worth considering the fact that the poems appear out of chronological order in this manuscript. The earliest one is dated September 28, 1942. The last one is dated April 6, 1943. But they aren't printed in this manuscript in chronological order, suggesting that they're organized by a different logic. And I think that that logic might be spoken of in terms of a range of moods. They range in moods from rage and frustration to prophecy. The first two poems perhaps begin and draw the reader in by focusing in on what he considered most important, namely culture. The first poem focuses on Yankov Gerstein and his death. Gerstein was the beloved teacher of music and also the director of the Vilna Choir. The second poem is about the anniversary of the Ghetto Theater, and immediately after that he then moves to the what I would call the core of the volume. It's philosophical poems that are highlighted by two different types of poems. 11 is about the creative process itself. We already heard a little bit about that in the poem A Prayer to the Miracle, with its incantory, you are here, you are here. It almost anticipates what would be written in Ketherkind, one of his most famous chronicle poems. And in the poem that is called To My Wife. But then he has a totally different type of poems, the poems and you shall speak to the orphan, which has a series of questions and a command on how to answer those questions. Thus shall you speak to the orphan. If the orphan asks, who am I? Or if the orphan asks, what is my name? Or if the orphan asks, for whom? Sutzkover already provides guidance to that. So to the question, who am I? Who are you? He that perishes terminates the generations that ferment in him and await their redemption. Only you are left, so you are the heir. A seed of holiness swinging in the wind, crumbled on a stony ravaged field. A small piece that is a diminutive

B (40:01)

whole

A (40:04)

are a wonder, in a wonder and eternal. A small piece that is a diminutive whole. And then the volume continues with other questions. The question How. How. Which focuses on what one will think about and liberation. We now think of liberation as this ecstatic moment in Holocaust poetry. But if one goes back and reads how he talks about what one might think about on liberation, we see that it's a much darker, more philosophical rendering of that particular moment. And then perhaps the most painful poem in the entire volume, the poem Song for the last, written in March 1943, that is not looking to sugarcoat the behavior of the Jews at all in the ghetto. In perhaps one of the most stunning lines of this entire volume, he talks about those who, perhaps before the war and even during the war, were more interested in the culture produced by others in the languages produced by others, than in what Yiddish could produce itself. He writes at one point, the clear words of your language meaning Yiddish, or were illicit, and you licked the honeys of alien spit. Finally, the volume ends with two poems, one to his brother and the other Jehoish. And I think I want to spend one more minute just talking about the poem Yahoish. Because here he brings the volume to a whole moving from contemplation, anger, frustration, to the transcendent power of Jewish creativity. Because Yahoz was not only the romantic Yiddish poet, but also the translator of the Hebrew Bible into Yiddish. So that that poem ends with the following words in different orders. Vision, redeemed, rejoicing, jubilant people, and prophecy. The last line concluding, death itself is frightened by the beauty and pushes away its filthy, smoking cauldron. So we will never know how this volume was, where this volume was buried, and how it was necessarily brought to that position before being rescued so many years later. But we do know that Sutzkever, in composing it, had a direct logic to guide readers along in the experience of the ghetto Jew at that moment in extremis, and the fact that we now have this, not only as a photograph manuscript, but in three different languages, where we can look at the original, look at amazing Yiddish print editions, look at how it's translated into English, and then also look at Lithuanian translations. Makes this, I think, one of the most exciting books published in the Yiddish field in the past year. I look forward to a conversation.

B (42:56)

Thank you. So why don't we begin the conversation and I leave it to you.

A (43:05)

Well, since I just spoke, I'm gonna. I'm gonna allow my Lithuanian. I will.

B (43:09)

I will ask a question, and maybe we can get started with that. To Minister Kvitkowskas, what were the. The. The. The biggest difficulties that you found in translating from Yiddish into Lithuanian? And I Don't mean simply word by word, but also trying to establish the context and the aura of this work.

C (43:43)

Translating Sutskeverse poetry is always a challenge because it is really. It has a crystalline form, it has a music, its metrics and rhyme are very precise, very precise kind of poetic art. And of course, the main wonder is that such a precise poetry was written in the ghetto with all its music, with all its metaphors, with all its paradoxes. And this is not a rhetoric, a rhetoric of resistance. It's not a consolation. It's a true poetry with paradoxes, with provocation, with bitterness, as Justin just told. A very bitter criticism of ghetto community itself. So it's really sharp, provoking. And also. And well, what while translating, I think the translation is accompanied by a kind of shiver, by a kind of existential shiver, because, you know, I always remember words by Sutskever when he spoke about the angel of poetry who guarded him against death in the times of Holocaust. And he believed that true words, true poetry, really good poetry, can save him from death. And now we have those same words that were written there, the words that he believed had power to conquer death. And when Justin Kame spoke about the logic, the internal logic of this collection, we can really notice that it starts from death, the death of Jacob Gerstein, a very famous ghetto figure. And it leads the reader towards a victory over death, when death is conquered by beauty. So this shiver, translating this kind of poetry was the main context I felt, the most important context I felt during this process. And it was really very touching and very important, not only for me, not only as for translator, but also philosophically and existentially.

B (47:06)

A follow up question. How much Yiddish poetry has been translated into Lithuanian and how much Lithuanian poetry has been translated into Yiddish?

C (47:20)

Thank you. Well, it's a good question. Of course. Now we still have few translations directly from Yiddish language, but during the. Last several years the number is increasing and we have new young translators joining this field. Translators that have good command both of Yiddish and Hebrew. And in general, the number of translations of Jewish literature in Lithuania is increasing. Yiddish is of course a special case. Now, translations from Lithuanian poetry into Yiddish, well, that's the most difficult part of the question. I don't quite remember any recent examples, but maybe this could serve as an encouragement. However, Lithuanian texts articles are being translated into Yiddish, articles about essays about Yiddish literature. And we have a very nice renaissance of Yiddish publishing in Lithuania. This is one of these examples. And the book is published in three languages, including Yiddish. Another example is a diary by Itzha Kurdashevsky, which I translated into Lithuanian. And two years ago it was published in a bilingual edition, both Yiddish and Lithuanian. So this is also a very important task for us to do, to keep the Yiddish language alive, to keep this famous tradition of publishing in Vilnius alive.

D (49:33)

May I add to that? May I add to that?

C (49:36)

Of course.

D (49:37)

I didn't mention in my introductory remarks that the book of poetry by Sutskever is the first in the series. We continue to publish our discoveries and continue to do it with evil. And our next project will be also three lingual edition of another genre of Jewish document. It will not be a poetry book, but will be an autobiography of a young girl of Bebe Epstein, whom you could acquaint already through the virtual Museum of Yivo. But I must promise that our book will not be the same. It will be something different. And we collaborate on that project as we speak.

B (50:32)

Yes, and we are delighted to be doing so. Thank you. Lara. Lara, why don't you talk a little bit about the challenges that you have faced? And they have been many. I'll never forget when I asked you when we were first getting underway of the. I can't remember what it was 170,000 pages of documents that were currently being processed, how many required urgent conservation and you said in your opinion, at least 65,000. This has been a monumental task. We are so grateful to the conservators and those young people in Lithuania, I think, most of whom are not Jewish, who have been also engaged in working on this project. But what were some of your challenges?

D (51:30)

Are you asking now about the book itself or the collection of the recovered documents?

B (51:36)

Both things. I think people might be interested in just hearing your views of how we have really brought this project to the point at which we're actually publishing this book. It's an extraordinary accomplishment, really. And you deserve so much of the credit.

D (51:56)

Thank you. You already mentioned that it is really teamwork. And what I want to point out, what wasn't a challenge, the selection. When we saw that thing, that manuscript, and I said there were several, these ten poems, the laconicity of that, the statement of the very title given by Sutskever. Also the state of the manuscript, it didn't need much conserving. And that's why I think I know where was it hidden? I think it was a part of the collection of the shortly functioned post war Jewish museum in Vilnius that Sutzkever of course was very much instrumental in establishing. But speaking of. So the selection that at that point was very obvious and Also, we thought immediately about this series. So how do you begin a series? Of course, with a statement. And it was a statement. But speaking about real challenges, one was mentioned already by you directly how to put that into context? For me, after many years of teaching, of course, at the university, one of the main challenges is also always an educational challenge. And here we couldn't do anything. We couldn't put the manuscript, present the manuscript in un other way than it is, and we couldn't do anything. We should preserve it as it was. And of course, here two introductionary articles by Nyndogaskowskas and David Fishman served that function of putting things into the context. But also for me very fact that Yiddish text is now available in Lithuanian. Of course English is important, but for that text to be available in Lithuania, in Lithuanian, after so many years, and for it being a testament of Holocaust, which not a monograph, which is not an article, which is not a research, but the raw word of poetry itself, this was the challenge I was very, very eager to overcome. And all that teamwork, I think resulted in just that.

B (54:49)

Thank you. Thank you.

A (54:51)

Can I add a word to that, please? Lara was very, very generous a couple of years ago in welcoming students from Smith College to the library and in showing us not only this document, but a series of other documents that are in the collection. And I think I can't emphasize how important it is that Yiddish and Hebrew documents now exist in Lithuania in this collection, in order to expand not only our own knowledge, but the knowledge of a sort of democratic lithuania in the 21st century, of its own literary and cultural heritage. The fact that these documents are there and that scholars and students can go see them and make appointments to look at them, means that in the same way it took many, many decades for American literature to expand beyond certain borders, so too will now Lithuanian literature expand to include writers like Avram Sutzkever, not as necessarily Yiddish writers or Jewish writers, but as writers who are core to Lithuanian experience and memory. And the fact that the library collaborated with Yivo in producing this across the oceans is a remarkable achievement of being able to bridge not only various histories, but also bring literature to a new generation of Lithuanian readers.

B (56:28)

We have some questions from people who are watching this, and I thought maybe this would be a good time to share these questions with the panel. One of them is to Professor Kami, where is your Yiddish from? Or with whom do Lithuanian students learn Yiddish today? Which perhaps Lara can answer.

A (56:56)

So my Yiddish is not from my family. My Yiddish is learned in graduate school. I studied it both at Harvard and then at YIVO and then at the Oxford program that later became the Vilnius Yiddish program. And now I'm proud to be associated as a teacher with both the Steiner Yiddish program at the Yiddish Book center and at the Naomi Pravarkadar International Yiddish Program at Tel Aviv University. And we have students from Lithuania who attend all of those institutions.

B (57:29)

I can say, Lara, before you answer, I can say that every year we have young people from Lithuania coming to YIVO to study in our summer program and from time to time to work in our archives. So there is a stream of, you know, young people coming and learning, which is a wonderful thing. But Lara, would you like to add to that? I know you have some anecdotes of your own about the class that you were going to teach and you insisted that everybody learn Yiddish and Hebrew for this class.

D (58:12)

I would not. Maybe not now, it's not about me. But I would like to say that it's really a pity that now Lithuanian students has, I believe, temporarily no possibility to learn Yiddish in Vilnius. Really in Vilnius summer program. But during all those years the program existed, the main body of students, although it was an international program, I would say the main body of students were from Lithuania. And as you noted already, Justin and Jonathan, they also tried to go abroad, as in his own time, Mindo Gas Kratkowskas did, when there was no summer program in Yiddish and Vilnius. What I want to say is you mentioned, Jonathan, that many of those young people who are part of various programs and projects in preserving Jewish documentary heritage are not Jewish. Like Ona Shemeiter wasn't Jewish. Of course, Ona Shimaite didn't know Yiddish. But those young people, they know that the only key, the main key, at least to the Jewish heritage, is a language, be it Hebrew or Yiddish or better still, both. And they do make efforts. And what I wanted to underline here is motivation. Not only abilities, not only interest, but the motivation. And I think the core of that motivation is a very new and modern consciousness of modern Lithuanian youth that do understand that the Jewish culture and Jewish history is not something specific or separate or exotic. It is just an integral part of their own consciousness and their own knowledge of history. And after that, Yiddish and Hebrew and the amazing letters are not so difficult as they are if you only see that just another language, it is something much, very much more. And I am proud to say that every, my every colleague at the Judaicho Research center at the National Library came to work with one or both languages. And I'm so happy. They are young people and they have so much in front of them. I just believe in them. And I'm very happy that, that we can collaborate in all those projects.

B (60:52)

It's a very hopeful message and I think a hopeful reality that we, with our project, we through our relations, we through our international collaboration, are trying to amplify and to make even stronger. And I think possibly what you just said, Lara, answers another question, a thorny question, but maybe someone has something else to add to it, which is how did it come that Lithuanians got interested in Jewish literature after their behavior during World War, during the Second World War. And obviously this is something on the minds of many, many Jewish people around the world. And I wonder maybe Minister Klitkowskas, whether you would like to perhaps talk about your own experience.

C (61:58)

Well, you know, Jewish literature is one of the most. Is one of the strongest sources of empathy, of empathy that helps us to understand this tragedy as a tragedy of our own society, not just a Jewish tragedy, but a tragedy of Lithuania, and to admit the guilt and the crimes, to admit them openly. So it's not just an interest in literature. It's also a process of recognition, conscious recognition, of learning, of building a Lithuanian identity on democratic and European and pro Western fundaments. So translating of Yiddish literature also helps our society in this transition. And of course, the treasure, the recognition of that treasure that was created in Lithuania by so many writers, by so many artists also helps to expand our. Our thinking. And I, I feel really great, great importance and, and it gives me much, it gives me a strong impetus while translating the literature, Yiddish literature, understanding that this is a larger process, a larger process of a change of our mentality. And one more thing I want just to mention. I saw in the comments, in the coming comments that Therap Ramson was mentioned. Fira Branson was a great bibliographer with whom I also learned reading and analyzing Yiddish literature. So she was also one of my teachers that led me into this world of literature and Yiddish book publishing. So thank you so much for mentioning Fira Branson here and from me as

D (64:39)

well, because Vera Branson was for many years my supervisor at the National Library, and he was also a person due to whom my Yiddish came alive. I do not speak Yiddish till that day, but I understand every word of that because Shira spoke it to her guests and later on to me, and she didn't check do I understand or not. But in the end, the Yiddish of my grandmother came to me back through Fira Brahmson. And I'M very, very grateful also to personal persons who recalled her in that conversation.

B (65:18)

Wonderful. Justin, I wonder if you have any thoughts about the relationship between Jewish and Lithuanian culture in Lithuania today. What is it like being a scholar, going back and forth and, you know, my. My guess is that you've had to think about these things quite a bit as. As I have at the YIVO Institute, I have.

A (65:49)

And as some of the questions in the chat suggest, it's not always, not always an easy process. But I first went to Lithuania, I believe, in 19. So things were very different then. Access to the archives were different. Many of these materials were still kept really hidden away in the. In a church and were not accessible to scholars. It was difficult to get around or to be able to speak to people. The change between 1994 and today is stunning in the sense that now there's not only an ability to and an encouragement for scholars to come and use these resources, but genuine interest on the part of young Lithuanians in the material. And this isn't only a Lithuanian process. I mean, from my position as being part of Yiddish programs and teaching, there's tremendous interest among students in Eastern Europe, many of whom are not Jewish, in learning Yiddish and in learning about Eastern European Jewish history, precisely because this is part of an awakening of their own history. And it is very much encouraging to know that Lithuania is led by a minister of culture who understands the relationship and the power, the relationship between historical memory and not being willing to stand up to those who perhaps would overlook some of the darker sides of that history. But also to recognize that in art there are ways to bring peoples together, and that at some point now, in our histories, there are ways that we can really generate a new excitement for what the possibility is of this cultural exchange. And for them, that is what comparative literature scholars do. So a year and a half ago, there was a conference hosted in Dilnius in Lithuania that the minister and Lara both attended. It took place at the university, which had not in the 1930s, been necessarily the safest or most welcome place for Jewish students. And the possibility to now have a conference there and at the National Library, I think is an opportunity to turn a new page. But all of us who work in this field, I know you, Jonathan, and certainly my colleagues in Lithuania, know that these are contentious issues, and we have to be respectful and be willing to listen to people. Many of these, some of these documents, not all, but some of these documents belonged to pre war Jewish institutions, including the yivo. And there will be those who will argue that those Documents should not be in Lithuania. It's not up to me as a scholar, necessarily to weigh in on these larger questions, other than to say that the fact that Lithuanian institutions and a Jewish institution are cooperating and making these documents and archives accessible, that's what archives are for. They're to be used. And I think that it's incredibly important that we have rich archives, both in the United States, but also in Lithuania, so that Lithuania recognizes and can come into direct contact with the sources of its history, including its own, in some cases, participation in the eradication of that culture. So we, you know, these are not easy questions to navigate, but it reminds me of when I went to Cuba a few years ago and visited the Cuban Jewish community and recognized that none of their, none of the books, the Yiddish books produced in Cuba with a Havana imprint, existed any longer in Cuba. They had all been sent away to libraries or to institutions abroad because there were no more Yiddish readers. And I thought, what a loss to Cuban history, because at some point Cuba will be free. And when that happens, wouldn't it be wonderful if materials that were produced by the Jewish communities in Cuba were still in Cuba and could be accessed by young Cuban scholars? So these are ongoing issues, but it's an exciting moment.

B (70:20)

Yes, I agree it is an exciting moment. It's very exciting to see this happening, unfolding. The creation of the Judaica center at the National Library seems to me also a very significant statement by the library, by a national institution. But I am advised that unfortunately we have room for just one more question. But I will say that we have two questions that I have to ask. One of them I'm asking Alex and Jane, which is, how does one of our viewers share this event with friends? So if that information can be made available, I think various people will grateful. The other is, and this is to Lara. How do people get a hold of the book? How do they buy it? I presume that we will have copies and Yivo, in due course that can be purchased. But until Covid is over, I think it's going to be difficult for that to be arranged. But in the meantime, where are the books?

D (71:34)

Yeah, of course, sadly, in Lithuania, the situation is very similar. Now the library is almost closed, but it is almost the level of the library where you can change book books is active, and it is the same level where the library bookshop is positioned so you can acquire a book. Now, physically, in Lithuania, when you come to the National Library. And bookshops now are also open, if I'm not mistaken, the bookshops are active and some of the part of the. Of the publication is there. And also there is a possibility to buy the book online, I believe when you address the site of the National Library, of course, I'm sure that if we could do that, the EVO will be able to do the same. And I just believe that after the session, there will be more people willing to acquire the book.

B (72:37)

Right. So I have just one announcement that I would like to make before we break. First of all, thank you to everyone who has participated. We've had many comments expressing appreciation for this moving and I think, very informative discussion. That's the first thing. The second thing is that for those who are interested in seeing now, there is nothing that substitutes for touching, as Justin was saying. But if you are interested in seeing the documents that have been discovered in Lithuania, that have been digitized in Lithuania and also, by the way, in New York, you can do so by visiting the ISO website and logging onto the Edward Blank Yivo Online Collections Project. And I am very proud to say that the entirety of the project is due to be finished December 19, 2021. So about a year from now, everything will be done.

C (73:56)

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for this excellent conversation and for excellent collaboration. I'm really grateful and it's really wonderful to have this renewed cooperation between YIVO and Vilnius.

D (74:16)

Yeah. And sincere thanks from me as well.

C (74:19)

Thank you.

B (74:20)

And Justin, thank you so much for your very insightful commentary. All right, everyone, goodbye. Be safe.