Bänoo Zan and Cy Strom, "Women, Life, Freedom: Poems for the Iranian Revolution" (Guernica Editions, 2025)

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Bänoo Zan and Cy Strom, "Women, Life, Freedom: Poems for the Iranian Revolution" (Guernica Editions, 2025)
Host: Holly Gattery
Date: January 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode centers around the recently published anthology, Women, Life, Freedom: Poems for the Iranian Revolution, co-edited by poet Bänoo Zan and editor Cy Strom. The anthology commemorates and documents the ongoing movement for women’s rights, political freedom, and human dignity in Iran, sparked by the killing of Mahsa (Jina) Amini in 2022. The conversation explores the genesis of the anthology, its inclusive editorial process, the power of poetry as witness and protest, and the hope and solidarity it aims to inspire across geographic and social boundaries.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origins and Intent of the Anthology (02:34–08:31)

• Genesis of the Project
  • The anthology proposal was initiated shortly after the death of Mahsa Amini and the subsequent protests in Iran. By September 2022, the proposal was sent, accepted quickly, and the open call for submissions followed in March 2023.
  • The submission process lasted a year and featured a commitment to anonymize submissions to ensure inclusivity and meritocracy.
• Historical & Ongoing Context
  • The editors stressed the revolution continues: “There is a revolution right now. It’s the same movement. It’s not yet completed.” (Sai, 07:53)
  • The poems bear witness to ongoing violence, courage, and the unfinished struggle for rights in Iran.

Inclusion, Anonymity, and Artistic Mission (08:31–19:41)

• Anonymous Review and Global Participation
  • The editors reviewed submissions blindly—without knowing identities—resulting in a diverse anthology, with contributions from Iranians and non-Iranians alike.
  • Bänoo Zan emphasized art’s power to bridge differences:

    “Art should connect us with each other and should let us imaginatively participate in the struggle...I don’t believe that Iranians have the monopoly over writing about Iran.” (Bänoo Zan, 10:41)

• On Inclusion and the Diaspora
  • The anthology welcomes not just Iranians, but anyone who can meaningfully engage with the struggle.
  • Bänoo called for Iranians to write in English, positioning it as a lingua franca—"not as a colonial language," but as a language for global partnership and understanding. (13:51)
• Personal Account of Belonging
  • Host Holly Gattery shared her initial hesitance to contribute—feeling “not Iranian enough”—but found validation in the inclusive mission:

    “...seeing the call that you made helped me feel validated in my voice, in my experience...I just want to thank you for that approach...it was such a legitimizing experience...” (Holly, 18:47)

The Book’s Structure: Thematic Sections (19:41–30:41)

• The anthology is organized into thematic sections: roots and mythologies, defiance, the struggle, witness/testimony, and futures/hope.
• Section Details:
  • Roots/Mythologies: Links movement to Iranian and global history.
  • Defiance: Explores forms and acts of resistance.
  • Struggle: Narratives of activism and sacrifice; includes cross-regional solidarity (e.g., with Afghan poets).
  • Witness: Voices documenting atrocities and internal/external conflict.
  • Futures: Envisioning hope, commemoration, and the ongoing fight for freedom.
• Bänoo shared her belief that:

  “Art cannot be just for its own sake. It has to be at the service of a better world, at a cry for help...committed to justice and to freedom.” (Bänoo, 27:47)

Editorial Surprises & Reader Responses (31:52–35:29)

• Surprises emerged both in the composition of contributors (roughly half Iranian heritage, half not) and the imaginative reach of poets, including, for instance, men writing convincingly in the voice of women.
• The bravery of contributors (including those in Iran) astonished the editors:

  “These very brave people astonish me, actually, with their effrontery towards a violent dictatorship.” (Cy, 34:38)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Anonymity and Inclusivity
  • “Just being an Iranian doesn't mean that you care about Iranians...if art cannot bring us closer together in that, it has failed its mission.” (Bänoo, 10:04)
• On the Mission of the Anthology
  • “This is a cause that sparks interest and ought to spark interest anywhere.” (Cy, 34:10)
• On Art’s Responsibility
  • “For me, art cannot be in this case, writing cannot be an exercise in width and...mastery over words and language. It has to be at the service of a better world, at a cry for help.” (Bänoo, 27:47)
• On Hopes for the Anthology
  • “I would say my hope would be that this anthology would bring us closer together, and the geographical borders and the ideological borders...would fall and we would become one people on earth.” (Bänoo, 43:17)
  • “An anthology like this keeps hopes alive in words and lines that will not be forgotten because they cannot be forgotten.” (Cy, 44:08)

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Poetry Readings (Highlights & Timestamps)

• "I'm not supposed to be talking about this" (Holly Gattery’s poem read by Cy), about the pressure to remain silent and the layers of denial/complicity. (20:58–22:35)
• "Urgent Report" (Bänoo Zan)
  • Based on a real message from the father of a political prisoner, Hossein Ronaghi:

    “The gate to human rights is closed in Iran. In the Islamic Republic of Iran, officials are not answerable. They’re appointed to kill...If anything happens to Hussein, you are all responsible. All of you.” (Bänoo reads, 36:05–37:51)

• "Don’t Tell Mom" (Ari Honarvar, read by Cy Strom)
  • Inspired by a young protester’s last phone call to his father:

    “Dad, they’ve reached a verdict. Mine is execution by hanging. Don’t tell mom...” (Cy reads, 38:36–39:58)

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Reflections on the Iranian Revolution & Global Resonance

• The co-editors stressed that while the anthology arises from a specific historical context, it extends its vision to all struggles for justice, dignity, and liberation.
• The diversity of contributors, reflected at the anthology’s Toronto launch, was cited as a source of strength and hope.

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Closing Questions: Hopes for the Reader (42:22–44:35)

• Bänoo’s hope: That the book brings readers together across borders and differences—“we would become one people on earth.”
• Cy’s addition: That the anthology “lives within the present moment and will continue. It celebrates heroism. Its poems interrogate our own selves...keeps hope alive.”

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Updates from the Editors (45:47–47:06)

• Cy Strom: Completing an essay on Canadian artist Oscar Cahén.
• Bänoo Zan: Looking for a publisher for a new manuscript of deeply political poems.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Origins & Context of the Anthology – 02:34–08:31
• Editorial Mission & Inclusivity – 08:31–19:41
• Book Structure & Thematic Sections – 19:41–30:41
• Editorial Surprises & Reader Impact – 31:52–35:29
• Poetry Readings: "Urgent Report" & "Don't Tell Mom" – 35:29–39:58
• Panel Reflections & Hopes for Anthology – 42:22–44:35
• What’s Next for the Editors – 45:47–47:06

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Final Thoughts

The episode stands as a profound testament to the role of poetry in witnessing, resisting, and envisioning justice—not just for Iran but for the world. The anthology Women, Life, Freedom and this conversation alike break the boundaries of ethnicity, geography, and tradition to create a chorus of global solidarity anchored in the hope for freedom and dignity.

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Transcript

[A]

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[A]

This is Marshall Po. I'm the founder and editor of the New Books Network and if you're listening to this, you know that the NBN is the largest academic podcast network in the world. We reach a worldwide audience of 2 million people. You may have a podcast or you may be thinking about starting a podcast. As you probably know, there are challenges basically of two kinds. One is technical. There are things you have to know in order to get your podcast produced and distributed. And the second is, and this is the biggest problem, you need to get an audience. Building an audience in podcasting is the hardest thing to do today. With this in mind, we we at the NBM have started a service called NBN Productions. What we do is help you create a podcast, produce your podcast, distribute your podcast, and we host your podcast. Most importantly, what we do is we distribute your podcast to the NBN audience. We've done this many times with many academic podcasts and we would like to help you. If you would be interested in talking to us about how we can help you with your podcast, please contact us. Just go to the front page of the New Books Network and you will see a link to NBN Productions. Click that, fill out the form and we can talk. Welcome to the New Books Network.

[C]

Hello everyone and welcome to nbn. I'm your host, Holly Gattery and I'm really thrilled to be joined today by the wonderful Banu Zan and Sai Strom, who are editors of Woman Life Poems for the Iranian Revolution, which was published by Kornuka editions in 2025. Welcome to NBN Banu. And as I hello.

[D]

Thank you so much.

[B]

Thanks very much.

[C]

Thank you. It's so lovely to have you here. For our listeners. Woman Life, Freedom Poems for the Iranian Revolution this is an anthology that marks a world historical moment, the first ever feminist revolution. The slogan chanted by demonstrators in Iran is Woman Life, Freedom and encompasses hope and ideals for all the people everywhere. This anthology echoes that cry. The poems here might be reflections on the present moment, denunciations of injustice, examinations of the poet's own conscience, laments for the fallen, bitter curses, prayers, celebrations of life, and visions of a better future. Banu and Sai aim to raise awareness of the women's revolution in Iran and show the world that this cause is alive and will not be put down. Binuzan is a poet, translator, essayist and poetry curator with numerous published pieces and three books. Songs of Exile was shortlisted for the Gerard Lampert Memorial Award. Letters to My Father was published in 2017. She is the founder of one of my favorite poetry series ever, actually Poetry Night, which is in Toronto, Canada's most diverse and brave poetry reading and open mic series, which started in 2012. Chebecher bridges the gap between communities of poets from different ethnicities, nationalities, religions, or lack thereof, ages, genders, sexual orientations, abilities, poetic types, voices and visions. Banu calls herself a war correspondent in verse. Other describe her as a political, metaphysical and spiritual poet. Zeisstrom works as an editor. He holds an MA and master's in philosophy degrees in Modern European History and has published in academic and other areas, including the visual arts. He edits in different genres and sometimes languages, and has had a role in developmental professional editorial standards and educational materials. I am, as I said, delighted to have you both here to talk about this really remarkable, powerful, beautiful and surprising anthology. My first question for you both, and of course whichever one of you would like to answer first, K is, where did this anthology start for you? I mean, I think we have a pretty clear idea, but I'd love to hear about its inception in your own words and then also how you brought it to life.

[D]

On September 16, 2022, Mahso Gino Amini was murdered in custody of the so called morality police in the Islamic Republic of Iran. And soon after the nationwide protests broke out in what came out to be known as the Women Life freedom movement. On September 30 of the same year, I sent the proposal for this anthology to Guernica editions and on October 5th of the same year they accepted. Before I submitted the proposal, I asked Systrom if if he would like to collaborate with me on this project as co editors. And then we went ahead with it and Guernica accepted. They opened the submission window from March 2023 and they kept it open until for one year in this window we did all we could to reach out to people, journals, Magaz, you know, groups, writers groups, to spread the word about the call. And then after that we asked the publisher to anonymize the submissions. So we read the submissions blind. We did not know who the writers were. And after we made the decision, then we asked the the publisher to tell us who the writers were. And then we contacted them and the editing process started. And I think we submitted the final manuscript in April, no, in September of 2024. And in April 2025, the anthology was published. Yeah.

[C]

Sai, did you want to add anything?

[B]

Well, I'm very fortunate that Banu Zan asked me to participate in this anthology. It was wonderful to work with her. I was moved by the poems. They were powerful works. And the testimony of that comes from reviewers and readers around the world and those who participated in, in submitting poems to look at the present moment for a second. So this was an anthology in honor of commemoration of and marking the woman life freedom, women's revolution for rights, dignity and political equality and social equality in Iran that raged through 2022 and 2023. There is a revolution right now. It's the same movement. It extends over time, it's not yet completed. And we can't imagine that the women and girls who risked their lives in the woman life freedom protests would have been willing to live with heads uncovered in a repressive dictatorship. That is to say, this cause, the cause that this book marks, is the current cause too, and the cause of protesters, rebels, revolutionaries and freedom fighters in Iran into the future.

[C]

Thank you for that, Sai. Bamu, I was wondering if you could speak to why it was important for you that the submissions be anonymous. I think that's a really interesting choice.

[D]

Yes, it is interesting, but I find that there are a lot of anthologies being produced and even on this topic there have been books that have been published with the collections of different genres and different art forms even. However, a lot of these anthologies, not only on this topic, but on any other topic, are insider's work. It means that the editors reach out to the people they know and they produce an anthology. And those who are not really connected strongly with the editors are left out. And so for us, for me, knowing the complexity and the diversity of the Iranian people in Iran and outside Iran, and people who care about the Iranian cause, as part of their belief in human rights. I wanted everybody to participate in that because. And yeah, I've received. People were asking me, why don't you limit this to women? Why don't you limit this anthology to Iranians? And I disagree for a lot of reasons. The first reason is the actual inclusivity of the ideas and perspectives, but also about the fact that I think art should connect us with each other and should let us imaginatively participate in the struggle. And through that, later on, hopefully, it translates into action. For me, just being an Iranian doesn't mean that you care about Iranians. And you might know that the Iranian cause is very complex and diverse and multifaceted. So just being an Iranian doesn't mean that you can write better about Iran. And just because you are not an Iranian doesn't mean you're not a good writer on that issue. So we are all human. And if art cannot bring us closer to each other in that, it has failed its mission. So I don't believe that Iranians have the monopoly over writing about Iran. And I don't think that people who are connected mostly with me have an advantage or have a better way of expression as this anthology turned out. Many people who actually whose work we accepted, we had not met them or we have not met them even to this day. And the other thing is that I think, as you know, I believe in diversity, and diversity also, for me means inclusion. Inclusion meaning that you should include people who are not connected with you and you should not treat people as outsiders. This, of course, is very much, you might say, a problem in the artistic scene, which is a little bit, maybe even a little bit more than a little bit elitist and exclusive. And I think art is for the people and it should welcome a stranger and strangers as your own, because there is no stranger in art. And. And also because I am connected with a lot of people in the literary community and I have some connections in the Iranian community. But if I was just reading, and if we were just reading and prioritizing people, we knew there would be no space for the absolutely marvelous voices that we finally included. We probably offended some, but we're okay with that because I think the prerequisite of art should be a belief in equality. And if we are not going to be open to being treated equally, we're betraying the mission of art also. Yeah, sorry. Oh, go ahead, Bannu.

[C]

I'm still here. I'm listening. I'm enchanted by this answer.

[D]

Yeah, okay. So what else I was going to say is that there is a significant after, you know, especially there's a significant number of Iranians who have left Iran and they are living in diaspora in different countries in North America and Europe, in virtually all around the world, in Asia, in Africa. And you wouldn't know, I mean, as outsiders, they would not know. People would not know how big this community is, how diverse and how culturally and artistically active this community is. Even in our Toronto, there is a huge writer's community whose activities are not mostly, I mean, are mostly ignored by the so called Canadian writing community, partly because most of his activities are conducted in Persian. I think that this anthology was also a kind of encouragement to Iranians to write in English or to get. Well, writing in English has diverse implications. I'm not seeing English in this context as a colonial language. What I'm seeing is as an international language, the language of connecting with your fellow artists and activists around the world, the language in which a lot of significant collaborations can happen. A lingua franca of our time. And in this sense, I want to encourage our fellow Iranians to write more for the world, wherever they are, to connect with the literary communities around them, because our voice will not be heard unless we do make that attempt. And also we were open to the international community for the same purpose. That international community also conveniently ignores our issues because we are not making an attempt at explaining ourselves and they are dismissing us for many different reasons. And I wanted to say that, no, we are all humans, and you, whoever you are, however you identify, if you can write a good poem about Iran, we're going to include you. And so I think the purpose of art should be to bring us closer together, as I said, and because I also think that the Iranian situation is far more complex than the theories that have so far been developed and have inspired activism around the world. For example, the activism of the left falls short of understanding the complexity of the Iranian situation in standing up to the homegrown dictatorship. And of course, the right also manipulates some genuine concern and cause that Iranians have for their own purpose. And at this moment, I think that both narratives have failed us and we need a narrative that is focused on human rights and dignity, which was why this movement, Woman Life Freedom, that actually, by the way, continues into this present protest, inspired me to produce because it was a movement grounded in human rights and in women's rights, which are human rights.

[C]

Thank you so much for that incredible answer. And I really, I mean, I have been to a shabby share and I can remember actually getting goosebumps listening to you speak. First of all, I loved the. You have your time. I can't remember what the time is, but you were really strict about the time people could read for. They'd basically be sheep hooked off the stage. But bas. Anything else, you were. You were encouraging us to listen, to be open to disagreeing with other people. It was this very beautiful, charged environment that celebrated respectful difference. And I. I love the approach you took with this book. On a personal note, I wasn't planning to submit to the anthology because I thought to myself, well, I'm a Iranian. Like, my father's Iranian, but, you know, my mom's. My mom's white, and I grew up in Canada. Even though I'm an Iranian citizen, I have a birth certificate, I have citizenship. I haven't ever gone there. And I was really feeling like I. What do I have to say about this? What. What could I possibly have to say? I feel so disconnected from it all. I talk to my family there, but I don't know. I barely speak Farsi and. And certainly not well. Usually when I speak it, my relatives lovingly tease me about my terrible accent. And I really didn't know what to do. But understanding and seeing the call that you made made me feel like, really helped me feel validated in my voice, in my experience as somebody who has grown up hearing stories about my Ame leaving her home without her hair fully covered and the morality police harassing her and her taking an antenna off a car and beating them with it. And for harassing her, she got put in jail, but she was eventually bailed out. But hearing stories of these very wonderful, fiery women and how much they inspired me as a child and growing up, and I've always felt that. And I really just want to thank you for that approach and for the openness to voices from all over, because it was just. It was such a legitimizing experience, not only for me, but I'm sure for so many other people. So, Banu, thank you so much.

[B]

So your poem Hale, we slotted into one of the five sections that we organized the anthology into, the section of Witnesses. Here in this anthology. They don't all fall in the witness section, actually, but they include Iranians who appear to be giving first person witnesses to what the violence they saw on the streets. They're Iranians who are either born in Iran and emigrated or, like you, with identities that you might question, who actually questioned their own ability to witness the events on the streets in Iran and interrogate themselves in very interesting ways, as your poem does which its name, its title is. I'm not supposed to be Talking about this. Which on its own says quite a lot. If you want, I'll read it, since you haven't got it in front of you, perhaps.

[C]

Yeah, sorry.

[D]

That'd be wonderful.

[C]

And when you're done reading Sai, Emmanuel, I'd love for you to talk about the sections you divided the book into. But for now, I will give you the virtual stage.

[B]

Sure. So this poem in Woman Life Poems for the Iranian Revolution was written and submitted by Hagadari, an Iranian Canadian. I'm not supposed to be talking about this. And it discusses, among other things, or it shows us, it demonstrates for us, the kind of false consciousness that a person may have in trying to deny what they see before their very eyes or to protect others from what they are concerned that the others might perceive and know. But we all know the governing irony, I think, in the work. I'm not supposed to be talking about this. It's not that big of a deal. Things are different when you're here. You'd see everything is fine. People are living their lives. No blood in the streets, no executions at dawn. Your cousin goes to school, sees friends as she pleases, doesn't live in fear. The problem is the west is Western media making something of nothing. Every country has its problems. Everyone loves a villain. Everyone talks of truth as if there's only one. Your country is young and youth thinks it knows everything. Knows best not to post this online. You don't understand. Your cousin as well, sends her love. Don't worry for us. Don't say you don't believe me. Come and see for yourself.

[C]

Yeah, thank you for that. I'm always getting told I should go back or go to Iran and have a visit. And I'm always like, I'm okay, thanks. Just for now, I mean. But I want to. I want to. And I think there's so many people that feel it when I want to. Thank you so much for reading that. Because I was told not to write a poem for your anthology by somebody who will remain anonymous, but somebody I love very much and was told not to speak out about this stuff and I don't know what I'm talking about. So I thought I'd write a poem about how I shouldn't be writing this and I don't know what I'm talking about. So thank you. So, Banu or Sai, whichever one of you would like to speak to, how you divided up the anthology, because I found that to be really fascinating and also interesting point for me to think, an interesting lens for me to look at through, to see all the poems. And it was grounding. Because I often feel when I think about what's going on in Iran right now, I feel helpless and I feel flustered. But I found the sections, as I said, grounding, and they helped me feel like I could keep it together a little bit.

[D]

Yeah, well, first, the first stage, we really weren't thinking about set division or a rigid division. We weren't thinking about that. We just chose the poems we loved. And eventually we started thinking, maybe we should divide this into different sections. And at some point, I think we thought about, let's see if these poems would. Because now that they have emerged, we have decided about the poems. Do they reflect, let's say, the different stages of a movement or a protest? And they did. So a lot of these sections, of course, they're very metaphorical, and they go beyond the literal meaning of the sections. For example, in the beginning section, we have people who look at the. Or the poems that look at the metaphorical and cultural and historical connections of this movement with the other stages of Iranian history, as well as with its mythology and with the women's movement in the world. Then we have a defiance section. How do you defy a dictatorship? Again, in different ways, the approaches are very different. Some of them are very metaphoric. Some of them are. The defiance is reflected as the act of writing and art and uneven protest. Then. Yeah, so. And then we have the struggle itself reflecting some of the people. I mean, actually based on the stories of some of the people who have participated, who participated and lost their lives. And in this struggle, again, as you see, we go back and forth. We have a poem by an Afghan poet who lives in diaspora, whose poem was translated into German and then into English. And we thought that actually when we sent out the call, we were also looking for poems that could connect this movement with other movements and build bridges. And so this poem actually acts like that. And I think, to be honest with you, the Afghan women's movement and the women's movement in the Middle east in general is a bigger movement. And I know for a fact that in this movement of woman, life, freedom, a lot of feminists around the Middle east were really rooting for the women of Iran. And then we have. Even in this struggle, we have something that could have probably gone into witness, but we include included in the struggle section because it's the struggle of, for example, parents who want accountability, their children. Like the poem that I included, I wrote Urgent Report and then witness, that Sai spoke about very well. And I think that just again, pausing, because we are in very difficult and dark times in Iranian history right now. I would say, by all accounts, thousands of people have died and thousands more are at the risk of imminent executions. I think the responsibility of witness is an important responsibility for the artist. Witness in the sense of witnessing a huge movement that is happening for freedom and for dignity, specifically in this case in Iran, but also a witness to your own inner conflicts and how you come out of this conflict, the inner conflict. And how do you survive these two conflicts in a way that makes you not ashamed of yourself. This, I think, is the biggest responsibility for those of us who come from origins and backgrounds. That for us, I think, probably because of these historical experiences, for me, art cannot be just for its own sake. For me, art cannot be in this case, writing cannot be an exercise in width and, you know, mastery over words and language. It has to be at the service of a better world, at a cry for help. And it should shed light on the darkness of the human soul and bring resilience and eventually be committed to justice and to freedom. And in this spirit, I just want to. Again, sorry, I'm doing a lot of digressions, but I would like to call on all people who hear this, people who care about justice, freedom and dignity, to stand with the people of Iran at this dark moment in any way possible that they can. And I would like to say that the people who have lost their lives and are losing their lives are people like you and I. They're not agents of any governments or outside, from outside Iran. They're not pawns. They're masters of their own fate, and they're fighting for freedom. And the only part that I didn't talk about is futures. That is, again, metaphorically, in this book, captures the futures that we envision. And in a heartbreaking way, actually, one of the poems included here talks about how do we mourn those we have lost? And the other kinds of future are also talking about how do we commemorate, how do we keep the fire going and how we don't give up the struggle. Because even when we were putting this book together, we knew, and we know even now that the struggle for freedom is far from being done in Iran and in many parts of the world. Actually, we're not done yet. The world is far from perfect.

[C]

I mean, there's so much. First of all, it's never a digression to talk about justice in our humanity, Banu. So thank you for that. It is so important. And I mean, we actually were talking about doing another show with me for another radio station in Toronto. I do. Which of course, I'm happy to do too. But I asked Van's Eye if they would come on NBN and talk with me as well, and was actually mortified that I hadn't asked them before. It was quite embarrassing for me, especially because, you know, my work even appears in the collection. You think it be front of mine. But yeah. So thank you for all of that. My next question, before I ask one or both of you to read from the collection, Dealer's choice. Banu, I know I'd love to hear some of your work is I was hoping you could tell us a little bit about maybe something about this process, whether it was the poems themselves or the editing process or even reader responses, that has surprised you. Something you weren't expecting. Hopefully a good surprise. But surprises are surprises, whether they're good or not. And I was wondering if you could share a surprise with us.

[D]

One thing that. I guess the idea was for poems that people would send poems that would be addressing the movement, woman, life, freedom. But in fact, in the way that we envisioned the call or send out the call. And we included everyone, we wanted surprising aspects. And we also like Guernica Editions. The publisher usually has one editor for any of their anthologies that they publish. But in this case, I wanted us to be too. And again, because of that internationality, for example, as an Iranian, as someone who is a woman, I wanted someone who is not an Iranian and who is not a woman, so that the poems actually speak to the humans, to the human spirit, not just to like, you know, a group. And I was. But yes, the poem that probably maybe not the poems that surprised us because when we read them blind, some poems, and people were quite free, imaginatively free to write. For example, there is a poem that, you know well, the Persona is a woman. And, you know, if I can find it. But when we. When the names were so called, revealed, we found out that the writer is a man, you know, and so again, you know, those kinds of things. But these are beautiful acts of imagination because I think if men really start imagining what it feels to be a woman, we would be living in a better world in terms of women's rights. So we're glad that this happened. Or poems, I don't know. That was the poem that I could think about that was rather surprising.

[B]

I'm not sure that I would call this a surprise, but when we had the names and identities of the poets, we had chosen revealed to us. We found that about half were Iranian or of Iranian descent and about half not, which is probably just as it ought to be. This is a cause that sparks interest and ought to spark interest anywhere. Now, a couple of the poems we chose were submitted by Iranians writing under their own names, whose translator also lives in Iran. He's a. A poet himself, writing under his own name. These very brave people astonish me, actually, with their effrontery towards a violent dictatorship and the bravery that they've shown here.

[C]

Yes, thank you for that. I really just encourage all our listeners to pick up this book. Coronica Editions is a Canadian publisher, but is worldwide. Has beautiful distribution, so you should be able to get this absolutely anywhere. Books are bought or borrowed. Banu Sai. Maybe starting with Banu. If you're ready, I was wondering if you'd read us a poem of your choice from the collection.

[D]

Sure. I would choose the poem that is based on a video hosted to the Instagram account of Ahmad Eonabi, the elderly father of the Iranian blogger and political dissident Hossein Iron Abi. And I specifically choose this poem because I'm sure a lot of parents in Iran are now in the same situation and are reaching out for help. Urgent report. In the name of Allah. Urgent report. To the people of Iran, the Islamic Republic officials, Chief Judiciary, Ministry of Intelligence and the Commander in Chief. I hereby inform you that my son Hussein is under torture. I have received a phone call from an unknown number that they're taking Hussein to the torture chamber in Evin prison to extract false confessions from him. Hussein is vomiting blood. He is in very critical condition. No one in Iran is paying attention. Who is responsible? Chief Judiciary, I sent letters to you. Is torture legal in the Islamic Republic? Is torture legal in the Constitution? Is confession under torture acceptable to the courts? They are killing Hossein as we speak. Hussein is under torture. Chief Judiciary. Your Honor, you allow torture under your command. You cannot preside over the Department of Justice. Your officials are killing my son. The gate to human rights is closed in Iran. In the Islamic Republic of Iran, officials are not answerable. They're appointed to kill government officials in Iran. Is this social justice? Is this religion? Hussein is now under torture by the Intelligence. I hope you come to believe in God. None of you believe in God. If you did, you wouldn't do this. I ask all humans, all the world. I ask all the countries that respect human rights. I ask the United nations, the International Court of Justice in the Hague, and everyone in a position of influence to stop them from killing my son. Hussein is under torture. If anything happens to Hussein, you are all responsible. All of you.

[C]

Thank you so much. I don't know, I've got chills. I remember reading that for the first time and I think of an interview I did with Maria Sonkina, who is a writer who went to the Ukrainian border during the first days of that recent war. And she said that when we turn our back on the humanity of others, we lose our humanity. And as you were reading, I was thinking about that. And again, that's beautiful, powerful, devastating and important for everyone to hear. So thank you again. Sai, would you like to read us a poem? Sure.

[B]

I might have not chosen this otherwise, but these are dark days now in Iran. I'm reading a poem by Ari Honarvar, an Iranian born woman living in the us. I will read its explanatory footnote after I'm done. It's called Don't Tell Mom, Tell mom of splashes of nasturtium on the green canvas of the lawn, of narcissus flowers playing hide and seek with butterflies, of girls their hair dancing in the wind and music of joy whirling in the alleys. Tell her of the God of rainbows and young inventors growing old, the courage of woman, life, freedom. But dad, don't tell her about the swinging noose searching for a neck and what happens tomorrow at dawn. Please don't tell mom. The footnote that explains the the content of this poem. This poem was written in response to a young Iranian protester's phone call to his father from prison. Quote, dad, they've reached a verdict. Mine is execution by hanging. Don't tell mom, whispered 22 year old Mohammed Mehdi Karami into the phone after the judge reached a verdict in a sham trial. A few weeks later he was executed.

[C]

Yeah. Thank you for. Thank you for reading that. I can remember one of the first when I in my younger life, experiences that I had with seeing what was going on in Iran was the story of Atafar Al Shabi, who was a 16 year old that was hung on by a crane for crimes against morality when she had been raped. And then she was raped repeatedly by guards in prison as well. And I was a teenager myself when I heard about this. And I can remember what was for me equally as shocking as hearing these stories was the responses from my Iranian family members. So I had some members who were like, yes, this is an outrage. This is why we have to change. This is why we're doing things. And I had other Family members who were telling me that this is all just Western media, this isn't happening, these are lies. And I think that is. Vanu. You. You definitely touched on this. But that has been one of the most difficult parts of all of this to. To accept for me and to. To explain my feelings onto others, because it's, It's. It's a mess. And as you said, it's complex and it's. And it's also very simple and in another way. And one of the beautiful things about this anthology, which again, is the Woman Life Free Anthology, is that these poems don't shy away from the complexities. And again, there's this chorus of voices. I went to the launch for this book in Toronto and I was amazed, I mean, absolutely amazed by the other poets and the. The diversity of experience and background and age and race and gender. It was just such a marvelous experience. Banu, my last question for you is if there's one thing that you can hope this anthology does, let's say, just makes into the hand because of this podcast of one more reader, what is one thing you would hope beyond hope, not without being prescriptive, that you would like a reader to take away from.

[D]

This anthology, I would probably say that I'm very fairly comfortable with ambiguity. And, you know, as poets and as writers, we, I guess, those of us who have been writing and actively creating community, we know that art even doesn't achieve its full meaning without being exposed to the public, without being read by diverse people, each one of them reading into the poems, their own stories and the stories of the struggles of their own people, and expanding the meaning. So I would say my hope would be that this anthology would bring us closer together, and the geographical borders and the ideological borders that exist and sometimes separate us emotionally, intellectually, and artistically from one another would fall and we would become one people on earth.

[B]

Well said.

[C]

Yeah. And, Sa, I was going to ask you if you'd like to answer the same question for us.

[B]

I'll add a thought, a brief thought to what Bhanu just said. So this anthology is not a book for Iranians. It's not a book, necessarily. It is, but it's a universal anthology with contributors from four continents. It's not simply a commemoration of an event that has passed. It lives within the present moment and will continue. It celebrates heroism. Its poems interrogate our own selves, as you've heard. And poetry simply is charged literature. An anthology like this keeps hopes alive in words and lines that will not be forgotten because they cannot be Forgotten.

[C]

Thank you for that. I can remember one of the poems that I recite to myself the most. And for our listeners, this is not a poem from this anthology and I'm going to mess up because I'm not even sure I remember the poet, but it is a Persian poet and the line is, life is not empty. Yeah, Panu, do you remember who the poet is?

[D]

I guess it's Sohrab Zapahri. Yes.

[C]

Yes. I'm sorry, I think it's Dar Goldstone.

[D]

Dar Golestane. Yes. Thank.

[C]

Thank you.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

So life is not empty. That is a line that during these very dark times, I keep saying to myself to keep pushing and keep. Keep believing in other people and keep trying for a better world and remembering that there's. We're closer to each other than we are our governments and the systems that try to control us. And this anthology and this conversation has been such a powerful reminder of that. So thank you for you both. I do have one final question for both of you, and I'll start with Sai this time, and that is, what are you working on now?

[B]

I'm trying to finish up an essay in art history, Canadian art history that I began a long time years ago, actually. I was encouraged to. To sort of coalesce, I suppose, two separate essays written for a publication into a single one. The poet. Not a poet, the painter and illustrator is the mid 20th century Canadian artist Oscar Cahane, in fact, one of the great Canadian modernists.

[C]

Well, wonderful. I look forward to reading that and please keep me posted. And Danu, what about you? What are you working on now?

[D]

I have sort of completed a manuscript of poems that are very political, as you know, like the poems that I, the poem that I read, and other poems that capture previous movement in 2019, as well as the Woman Life freedom movement, as well as other struggles. And I'm looking for a publisher, a brave publisher that doesn't shy away from publishing political poetry. So if you know anyone, please let me know.

[C]

Absolutely. So, listeners, if you know anyone, you can always contact me and I'll contact Banu, or you can reach out directly to Banu as well. But you can also feel free to go through me if you'd like. Banu, Sai, thank you so much for talking to me today about the Woman Like Freedom anthology Poems for the Iranian Revolution, which is available wherever books are bought or borrowed and published by Guernica Editions. Thank you again to both of you.

[D]

Thank you for including us.

[B]

Thank you.