Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Leah Cargan
Guest: Dr. Barbara Jane Brickman
Book Discussed: Suffering Sappho! Lesbian Camp in American Popular Culture (Rutgers UP, 2023)
Date: January 8, 2026

Main Theme:
This episode explores Dr. Brickman’s groundbreaking book, Suffering Sappho! Lesbian Camp in American Popular Culture, an award-winning study that reframes the history of "camp"—an over-the-top, humorous, often subversive cultural mode—by uncovering its crucial, overlooked lesbian and queer women practitioners and audiences, especially in 20th-century America. The conversation touches on definitions of camp, the erasure of lesbian camp histories, iconic figures like Tallulah Bankhead, Etta Candy, and Gladys Bentley, and how camp operates as both survival and resistance in queer life.

What is Camp? — Definitions, Nuances, and Personal Meaning

[02:18]–[12:51] Key Segment

• Camp’s Elusive Definition:
  Brickman humorously admits, “Camp is kind of a bear. It’s a bit of a ... everyone always says that, like, it’s hard to define camp. It is.” She outlines two primary, mainstream understandings:

  • Intentional Camp: Exaggerated, over-the-top, “so bad it’s good.” E.g., Drag queens (RuPaul’s Drag Race), 1960s Batman TV show.

    “You have Adam West, who’s like, the very serious Batman, and then ... crazy, totally over the top Joker ... that, for me, is ... campy.” — Brickman [03:27]

  • Unintentional Camp: “Seriousness that fails,” such as Elizabeth Berkeley’s performance in Showgirls:

    “Elizabeth Berkeley is at, like, a 12. ... She’s trying ... and then ... it was seen as ridiculous ... that’s what you’d think of as unintentional camp.” — Brickman [04:25]

  • Camp Sensibility: Both a way of consuming (“camp readings”) and producing or performing.

    “It has two modes, consumption and production ... there are people who consume because they have this sensibility ... but it also can be a creative force ... a camp practitioner.” — Brickman [05:44]

• Cultural/Historical Context:
  The mainstream narrative centers gay men in the 20th century as progenitors of camp, but Brickman pursues a broader, richer story:

  “This was a way for a lot of queer folks to survive ... a way for a lot of different folks to identify each other ... I went looking for other practitioners ...” — Brickman [08:52]

  • Camp as a survival mechanism, a secret language for finding community, and a form of “defensive offensiveness”:

    “[Camp] is a way to push back, to not conform. To say, like, yeah, I’m an irredeemable other. Fuck you. You know, like here I am out here in my nun drag ... in your face.” [10:54]

Camp as Personal and Scholarly Journey

[12:52]–[23:36]

• Personal Roots:

  • Brickman recalls being a media-obsessed child, “the TV Guide” in a large family, developing a love for “badly done crap,” especially action, sci-fi, and horror B-movies.

    “I’ve always just kind of loved the bad. Like, I just find it funny… I must have that sensibility.” — Brickman [15:29]

• Path to the Book:

  • An academic experience—someone asking if she was giving “a camp reading”—prompted self-examination and research into camp, especially beyond gay male contexts.
  • The “grain of sand” was a brief mention in Lillian Faderman’s Odd Girls and Twilight Lovers (1991) about 1950s Tallulah Bankhead watch parties:

    “She describes Tallulah Bankhead watch parties ... I was like, what? ... Record scratch. ... I gotta find out who these ladies are.” — Brickman [18:38]

• Historical Contrarianism:

  • Challenges the flat narrative of 1950s lesbian misery and humorlessness by finding evidence of joyful, campy gatherings:

    “Some people were having a good time at a party listening to Tallulah Bankhead ... I always get irritated when something seems like a fait accompli.” [19:43]

    • Also criticizes the stereotype of lesbians as “serious,” killjoy spectators.

Erasure and Recovery of Lesbian Camp History

[23:36]–[28:35]

• Why Has Lesbian Camp Been Obscured?
  • Simple structural patriarchy, but also power dynamics within queer communities (white gay men dominating voice and representation).
  • The violence and suppression of queerness in the 1950s led to the silencing of previously vibrant subcultures.
  • The “feminist killjoy” stereotype:

    “The idea that the lesbian is this kind of out of step, out of style, ultra serious ... not funny ... just a drag. Right. And that narrative persists ... a way to disempower ...” — Brickman [26:40]

Iconic Case Studies from the Book

Tallulah Bankhead: Outrageous Camp Legend

[28:35]–[36:43]

• Described as “self-deprecating, glamorous, scandalous, mistress of ceremonies, stage, screen and gossip page legend.”
• Famous for her campy quips:

  “‘Don’t talk to me about camp, darling. I invented the word.’” — Tallulah, quoted by Brickman [29:08]
  “Hello, my name is Tallulah Bankhead. I’m a lesbian. What do you do?” [29:35]

• From Alabama aristocracy but rebelled, wanted to be the “baddest, most outrageous girl around” and “ambisextrous.”

  “She called herself Ambisextrous. ... She just said, I sleep with whoever I want.” [31:41]

• Maintained and cultivated a rabid female fanbase, notably the “Gallery Girls” in London, a group of outlandish, often queer women (“their ringleader named Fat Sophie ... a big butch lesbian ... signals ... bowler hat ... umbrella”) [33:13].
• The official record (e.g., Scotland Yard file) documents both fascination and fear of her sexuality and “spectacular” lifestyle:

  “She was keeping a Negress in her house as a lover. ... They can’t pin her down.”—Brickman [36:24–36:36]

Etta Candy and Wonder Woman: Coded Camp in Comics

[36:45]–[44:04]

• Etta Candy described as “a pint-size sidekick with a generous bust, thick, stout thighs, and an ample rear end ... completely over the top ... all of the girls at Holiday College,” and leader of the “Holiday Girls.” [37:47]
• The original Wonder Woman context:
  • Created by William Moulton Marston, who was polyamorous and committed to forefronting “female love.”

    “Marston was like female love ... can save the world ... He totally believed that.” [40:15]

  • Etta as “grand mistress of Spanx and slams,” cowgirl camp—a “cow town Liberace.”

    “She reminds me of ... Joan Crawford in Johnny Guitar, where a critic called her a cow town Liberace. ... That’s Etta Candy.” [39:39]

• Early comics include bizarre, subversive scenes: e.g., “women tied up and served on a table in Girl Pie.” [42:25]
• Wonder Woman’s queerness is ever-present, with Etta and the Holiday Girls as her implied audience and accomplices:

  “Wonder Woman is not really into Steve Trevor. ... She’s always finding, oh, God, I gotta do some crime fighting. Can’t marry you this time, Steve. Sorry.” [44:20]

• Images in the book are used to emphasize these coded jokes and ways of performing serious camp beneath a conservative surface.

Gladys Bentley: The Harlem Bull Dagger Queen

[47:36]–[58:13]

• Bentley, a blues star and Harlem legend, is framed as a “defiant lesbian persona in the 1920s and 1930s.”

  “She is a kind of ... famous, successful ... bulldagger—defiant, macho bravado, and adored for it.” — Brickman [51:31]

• Outrageous performer, “raunchy, double entendre ... the grossest, dirtiest lyrics you can imagine.”
• Open about her sexuality—performed in tuxedos, married a woman publicly, became a symbol of queer Black nightlife and transgression:

  “I married a woman in New Jersey ... was in a tuxedo ... and was just really like ... defiant.” [51:01]

• Career and persona forced into suppression post-1950s; Ebony article “I am a Woman Again” as complicated, possibly desperate closet performance:

  “The idea that she had some reformation and became straight ... was a way to preserve her career. The closet was a way to try to preserve her career.” [53:45]

• Bentley’s “camp” shifted from brazen defiance to coded survival, especially as a woman of color; Brickman argues for greater recognition of Black female practitioners of camp erased from history.

Reflections on Modern Camp, Video Essays & Current Projects

[60:46]–[71:59]

• Discusses her video essay Lesbians Behaving Badly (w/ Annabeth Mellon), analyzing the resurgence of lesbian camp in contemporary film (e.g., Bottoms, Love Lies Bleeding, Drive Away Dolls) and TV.

  “These recent films were really using obnoxious camp ... to fight back against that [killjoy, serious lesbian] idea.” [65:42]

• Camp’s persistence:
  • “You can’t kill camp. ... She is so used to being ignored and resisted.” [64:46]
• New Research:
  • Editing the Oxford Handbook of Camp—collecting expansive, global essays on the phenomenon.
  • Working on a documentary about the 1990s “feminist camp” resurgence (possibly called Madonna’s Playhouse):

    “It is about camp in the 90s and that resurgence ... The lesbian camp fits within that, but it’s a kind of larger picture.” [68:37]

• Political urgency:

  “Our current cultural and political situation is very upsetting ... how to have a politics in a disaster, and how has camp kind of been a part of that?” [70:33]

  • Camp as both therapy and resistance in times of crisis; the example of ACT UP, Queer Nation, Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence using camp for protest.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Camp as Survival and Protest:

  “[Camp] is, and has been, historically a form of political protest, a form of ... political practice where you push back against the forces that are oppressing you. ... In its outrageousness, it’s a way to push back, to not conform.” — Brickman [10:17]

• On the Myth of Humorless Lesbians:

  “It just can’t be the case that I’m like, breathing in this hateful, dominant narrative without people finding it or using it for their own ends.” — Brickman [22:19]

• On Tallulah Bankhead's Outrageous Persona:

  “Don’t talk to me about camp, darling. I invented the word.” — Tallulah, quoted by Brickman [29:08]

• On Etta Candy as Camp Icon:

  “Who doesn’t want that? ... Grand mistress of Spanx and slams.” [38:49]

• On the Erasure of Black Women from Camp History:

  “Camp does not belong to white people. ... I hope other historians keep digging into communities of color.” [58:13]

• Camp is Irrepressible:

  “You can’t kill camp ... You can’t kill the boogeyman. That’s—she is so used to being ignored ...” — Brickman [64:46]

• On Keeping Politics Alive via Camp:

  “How to have a politics in a disaster, and how has camp kind of been a part of that ... It’s sort of therapy for our troubled times, maybe. Or looking for answers. And trying to have a laugh, too, I guess.” [71:00]

Structure & Timestamps for Key Segments

• Defining Camp: [02:18]–[12:51]
• Brickman's Personal Journey: [14:05]–[23:36]
• The Erasure of Lesbian Camp: [23:36]–[28:35]
• Tallulah Bankhead: [28:35]–[36:43]
• Etta Candy/Wonder Woman: [36:45]–[44:04]
• Gladys Bentley: [47:36]–[58:13]
• Modern Lesbian Camp/Video Essay: [60:46]–[66:46]
• New Projects and Closing Reflections: [67:24]–[71:59]

Tone & Takeaways

Leah Cargan’s hosting is warm, funny, and engaged, drawing out Brickman’s sharp wit, passion for media, and scholarly rigor. The episode balances serious interventions—queer and feminist history, intersectionality, erasure—with playful celebration of camp’s excess and humor. Brickman’s approach is both scholarly and grounded in personal experience, encouraging listeners to challenge dominant narratives and find joy (and strategy) in the history of queer cultural survival.

Recommended for anyone interested in:

• Gender and sexuality studies
• Queer history
• Camp aesthetics and culture
• Lesbian history, fandom, and representation in media
• The politics of humor and resistance

Notable Resource:
Lesbians Behaving Badly video essay (referenced by Brickman) as a modern companion to the book.

Endnote:
The episode closes as Brickman credits Nicole Goux’s “fantastic” cover art and thanks the host, reinforcing both the scholarly and playful spirit that runs through her book and this engaging conversation.