Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Gina Stamm
Guest: Professor Bénédicte Meillon
Book Discussed: Ecopoetics of Reenchantment: Liminal Realism and Poetic Echoes of the Earth (Bloomsbury, 2022)
Date: September 5, 2025

In this episode, Gina Stamm interviews Professor Bénédicte Meillon about her groundbreaking book exploring how contemporary literature engages with the more-than-human world through the twin prisms of "ecopoetics" and "reenchantment." The conversation delves into the relationship between literature, sensory experience, ethics, spirituality, ecofeminism, and the concept Professor Meillon terms "liminal realism." Together, they discuss how stories can reshape perception, foster interdependence, and illuminate the shifting relationships between humans and the non-human environment, especially in times of crisis.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Origins and Significance of the Book

• COVID-19 as a Trigger:
  Professor Meillon began writing during the pandemic, picking up longstanding work that focused on the agency of non-human species and how periods of human pause (such as lockdowns) allowed people to hear the world differently.
  • "Covid was an important moment...a lot of people were really celebrating how they were paying more attention to the soundscapes of the world that we inhabit." (03:27)
  • She observes that lockdown made people aware both of "noise pollution" and of the return of wildlife, particularly birds, to urban soundscapes.
• Anthropocene Awareness:
  Meillon links pandemic reflections to broader themes in the Anthropocene: human encroachment, zoonoses, interdependence, and the planet's reaction to humanity’s actions.
• Storytelling and Reenchantment:
  The pandemic, for Meillon, highlighted a societal hunger for new narratives where "the planet was kind of reacting...forcing us to take other species into account in the way that we tell the stories." (05:00)

2. Corpus and Cross-Cultural Approaches

• Intercontinental Focus:
  The book bridges French and Anglophone literatures, inviting cross-pollination between different literary traditions.
  • "I was trying to work at a crossroads between French and English writers...initiate conversations with colleagues that weren't reading principally English literature, but French literature." (12:34)
• Theoretical and Analytical Structure:
  The book is divided into three main parts: the first lays theoretical foundations, and the remaining parts are dense with close readings.
• Correcting Misconceptions:
  Meillon addresses misunderstandings in French academia about the origins and purposes of ecopoetics, emphasizing Anglophone contributions and the need for translating key works.

3. Ecopoetics, Senses, and the ‘Revival of Attention’

• Reenchantment as Sensory Revival:
  Central to the book is the idea that ecopoetics revives all senses—not just sight—and teaches renewed attention to sound, smell, and bodily perception.
  • "The texts that I wanted to bring into this book are texts that really sharpen our attention to the more than visual world that we're constantly immersed in." (24:18)
• Against 'Frontal Lobotomy':
  Critiquing logocentrism and the dominance of vision, Meillon invokes theorists like Brian Swimme and Joachim Berendt to argue for holistic, embodied modes of perception.

4. Ecopoiesis Explained

• Definition and Reach:
  Drawing on Jonathan Bate and others, ecopoiesis is described as art (literary or otherwise) that emerges from attentive, dialogic engagement with more-than-human nature.
  • "Ecopoiesis...is the notion that art emerges from paying attention to and writing or dancing or filming in conversation with the more than human world." (22:27)
• Ethical and Ecofeminist Dimensions:
  Meillon ties ecofeminist practice—valuing the body and sensitivity, often marginalized—to the cultivation of attentiveness in both readers and writers.

5. Ecopoethics, Ethics, and Spirituality

• Connecting Ecological Literature and Ethics:
  For Meillon, ethics and spirituality are inseparable from ecopoetics: literature can create a sense of kinship and relationality that transcends materialism.
  • "Eco feminist doing away with notions that the body and the mind are different things...this feeling of connection we can seek because we feel the pleasure and the aliveness..." (28:01)
• Religion Revisited:
  She unpacks the etymology of "religion" as both "binding together" and "rereading," proposing literature as a vehicle for spiritual and ethical reconnection.

6. The Concept of Liminal Realism

• Moving Beyond Magical Realism:
  Meillon introduces "liminal realism" as a form of magical realism that centers on thresholds—especially those between human and non-human experience.
  • "Liminal realism does all of...magical realism, but it's magical realism taking place at a crossroads between human and non human worlds." (32:25)
• Colonial Problematics of ‘Magic’: She discusses why "magical realism" can be problematic, especially for non-European worldviews, because it frames other ontologies as superstitious.
• Key Criteria for Liminal Realism:
  (Full list at [40:08])
  1. Crossing Worlds: Main characters move between human and more-than-human worlds.
  2. Initiation and Liminality: Characters undergo initiation rites, reshaping their selves/worldviews.
  3. Embodied Sensitivity: Characters are hypersensitive, often with atypical bodies/minds.
  4. Dream/Reality Thresholds: Key events happen at dream-reality borders, accessing the "ecological unconscious."
  5. Dialogic Prose: Ecopoetic narratives intertwine poetry, science, and myth.
  6. Self-Reflexivity: Texts are aware of—and reflect on—their own enchanting powers.
  7. Braided Ontologies: Deliberate blending of scientific, animist, and empirical knowledge systems.

7. Weaving and Braiding as Poetic and Theoretical Metaphors

• Weaving as Worldmaking:
  Meillon examines the metaphors of weaving, braiding, and entanglement, drawing on myth (e.g., Spider Woman), literature, and etymology (from “textile” to “text”).
  • "There's a matrix, there's flesh, there's different threads, there are different dimensions that are entangled, and that forms what Merleau-Ponty has called the flesh of the world..." (52:53)
• Ecofeminist and Craft Roots:
  She highlights the connection to traditional crafts and dialogic literary structures, relating both to ecofeminist politics and the “flesh of the world.”

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On the COVID-19 Pause:
  "I was really struck with the number of people who said they were able to...pay more attention to the soundscapes of the world that we inhabit." —Bénédicte Meillon (03:27)

• On Ecopoiesis:
  "Art emerges from paying attention to and writing or dancing or filming in conversation with the more than human world." —Bénédicte Meillon (22:39)

• On the Purpose of Reenchantment:
  “The stories that we tell about ourselves and the world that we inhabit really influence the way we inhabit the world—that those are entangled.” —Bénédicte Meillon (09:23)

• On Magical vs. Liminal Realism:
  "Who gets to say what's realistic? What belongs to the real world, what is natural? Who gets to say what's magical?...I was interested in looking at what's going on in these works that are works of fiction. Let's not forget that." —Bénédicte Meillon (34:02)

• On Weaving and the Flesh of the World:
  "Everything in the world is always...there's a matrix, there's flesh, there's different threads, there are different dimensions that are entangled, and that forms what Merleau-Ponty has called the flesh of the world, which is an ongoing dialogue." —Bénédicte Meillon (52:53)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:27] — COVID-19, human pause, and the return of the non-human world; origins of Professor Meillon's project
• [12:34] — Development of the book's corpus; bridging French and Anglophone traditions
• [20:21] — The importance of the chant and the senses; Jean Giono's Song of the World
• [22:27] — What is ecopoiesis? How does it reconnect us to the world through art?
• [28:01] — Ecopoethics, ethics, and spirituality; religion as relating and rereading
• [32:25] — Liminal realism: definition, critique of magical realism, and criteria
• [40:08] — In-depth: Seven criteria for liminal realism
• [48:52] — Weaving and braiding as metaphors: ecofeminist, mythological, and philosophical threads

Conclusion & Further Reading

This conversation with Professor Bénédicte Meillon offers a richly textured exploration of how literature can foster renewed attention to the world, challenge anthropocentric worldviews, and encourage ethical and spiritual interconnection with the more-than-human. Readers interested in ecocriticism, affect, sensory studies, and ecofeminist theory will find the episode especially rewarding.

Further Resources:

• Professor Meillon’s academic work: [Personal Email Provided at 53:19]
• Projects: “Seymour Blue” (oceanic and aquatic ecopoetics) and “Dancing Bodies of Water” (multimedia research-creation)
• Forthcoming work: Encyclopedia of the Anthropocene (entry on Liminal Realism), Blue Humanities Handbook (Routledge), and creative writings (see JSSE journal).

This summary preserves the vibrant academic exchange and depth of thought while providing a map for listeners—and readers—new to Professor Meillon's work and to the evolving field of ecopoetics.