Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network – Public Policy Channel

Host: Stephen Pimpare
Guest: Dr. Breanne Pleggenkuhle (co-editor with Joseph A. Schafer)
Book Discussed: Crime, Corrections, and the COVID-19 Pandemic: Responses and Adaptations in the US Criminal Justice System (Southern Illinois University Press, 2025)
Date: September 8, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Stephen Pimpare interviews Dr. Breanne Pleggenkuhle about her co-edited volume exploring the effects of the COVID-19 pandemic on the U.S. criminal justice system. The discussion ranges from shifts in crime patterns and policing during the pandemic, to changes in corrections, court procedures, and the ripple effects of the George Floyd protests. Pleggenkuhle emphasizes both the challenges and adaptations experienced across the justice system and reflects on what changes might endure.

Key Themes & Discussion Points

1. Background of the Project and Authors

[01:32-03:00]

• Dr. Pleggenkuhle: Professor at Southern Illinois University (SIU) Carbondale, focuses on post-conviction experiences and systemic obstacles after justice system involvement.
• Co-editor Joseph A. Schafer: Focused on front-end of criminal justice—policing and enforcement.
• Collaboration stems from examining the drastic policy and social shifts during the COVID-19 pandemic and their impact on criminality, policy, and the system.

2. Crime Patterns Before, During, and After COVID-19

[03:00-07:52]

• Pre-pandemic crime:

  • Crime peaked in the 1990s then consistently declined; by the pandemic, most crime rates were at historic lows.
  • There’s a disconnect between public perception (persistent or rising crime) and actual data (declining crime).

  “We consistently saw crime declining again. About 1992 was the start of that…We're at sort of historic lows leading into the COVID pandemic.” – Dr. Pleggenkuhle [04:46]

• Pandemic’s impact:

  • Early uncertainty about crime impact; anticipated more guardianship with people home might reduce property crime but possibly heighten interpersonal violence or drug-related issues.
  • Initial reports: Many crimes and police calls declined; ambiguity about actual crime rates vs. reporting/recording artifacts.
  • Variation based on crime type, region (urban vs. rural), and the accessibility of crime data.
  • Post-pandemic: Most crimes continued declining nationally, though local variation exists.

  “Early reports tended to show that crime actually declined, or at least calls to police declined...” [06:32]

• Policy impact:

  • No single policy definitively explains the decline. Prevention, economic stability, and rehab seem more effective than 'tough on crime' policies.

3. System Responses and Data Challenges during COVID-19

[07:52-12:53]

• The book gathers wide-ranging chapters focused on actors (police, courts, corrections, victims, system-impacted people) and systemic weaknesses exposed by the pandemic.

• Virtual court systems:

  • Lockdowns forced courts into online hearings, which helped identify access issues for rural/underserved communities. Some adaptations continued post-pandemic, aiding equity.

• Highlighting existing flaws:

  • Pandemic acted as a stress test, exposing issues like officer burnout, lack of resources, court access barriers, and difficulties in measuring crime.
  • Emphasis on combining methodologies (reports, surveys, qualitative interviews) for accurate data.

  “It really highlighted already existing flaws, maybe in the system or obstacles that existed.” – Dr. Pleggenkuhle [09:21]

• Qualitative perspective:

  • Speaking directly to frontline officers or impacted individuals provided irreplaceable context beyond statistics.

4. Intersection with George Floyd Protests and Black Lives Matter

[12:53-16:33]

• Confluence of crises:

  • The murder of George Floyd during pandemic lockdowns was a historic tipping point, sparking widespread protests.
  • Pandemic and social unrest combined to challenge police legitimacy and public authority; policies (e.g., mandates, lockdowns) fed public distrust.

  “It’s this juxtaposition, ... a really tragic event ... and a rallying central cause that really brought people together.” – Dr. Pleggenkuhle [13:52]

• Chapters explore the intersection of COVID-19 stress/burnout and heightened scrutiny of law enforcement.

5. Did Calls to ‘Defund the Police’ Change the System?

[16:14-18:33]

• Defund the police:

  • The phrase was powerful but did not produce widespread, fundamental funding shifts.
  • Real shifts are more about rethinking and restructuring—adding social work, alternative responses, recognizing limits of enforcement.
  • Some creative adaptations, but “no tremendous shift in that funding.”

  “Defund the police was very catchy... I wouldn’t say that we’ve seen a tremendous amount of restructuring in terms of fundamental budgets.” – Dr. Pleggenkuhle [16:39]

• Consent decrees, reforms, and organizational shifts have waxed and waned based on political/social climate.

6. Pandemic-era Practices with Staying Power

[18:42-23:03]

• Remote/virtual options:

  • Virtual court hearings and telehealth services have increased accessibility for rural and marginalized populations; some of these remain post-pandemic.

• Systemic support:

  • Greater attention to officer burnout, mental health, coping mechanisms, and the high suicide rates among law enforcement.
  • More flexible victim services, such as video hotlines and telehealth options, have expanded access to help—especially crucial in rural or isolating situations.
  • Recognition that both criminal justice actors and those they supervise need support networks.

  “I think there’s been more attention paid to what ... broader sort of support system is available for this type of work industry.” – Dr. Pleggenkuhle [20:47]

• New/emphasized crime types:

  • Rise in cybercrime, retail/commercial theft, and fraud; system adaptations such as new monitoring technologies and security protocols.

• Core lesson:

  • Crime prevention and justice response are most effective when leveraging guardianship, social support, and accessible services—not just enforcement.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “We consistently saw crime declining again. About 1992 was the start of that…We're at sort of historic lows leading into the COVID pandemic.”
  — Dr. Breanne Pleggenkuhle [04:46]

• “Early reports tended to show that crime actually declined, or at least calls to police declined...”
  — Dr. Pleggenkuhle [06:32]

• “It really highlighted already existing flaws, maybe in the system or obstacles that existed.”
  — Dr. Pleggenkuhle [09:21]

• “Defund the police was very catchy... I wouldn’t say that we’ve seen a tremendous amount of restructuring in terms of fundamental budgets.”
  — Dr. Pleggenkuhle [16:39]

• “I think there’s been more attention paid to what ... broader sort of support system is available for this type of work industry.”
  — Dr. Pleggenkuhle [20:47]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:32-03:00] — Author background and book’s inception
• [03:00-07:52] — Historical crime patterns, pandemic context, and data challenges
• [07:52-12:53] — System adaptations and data collection issues during COVID-19
• [12:53-16:33] — George Floyd’s murder, Black Lives Matter, and social response
• [16:14-18:33] — The “defund the police” movement and institutional response
• [18:42-23:03] — Enduring pandemic-era reforms, officer & system support improvements

Episode Tone & Notable Moments

The conversation maintains a thoughtful, research-informed, yet accessible tone. Pleggenkuhle balances data-driven insights with empathy for frontline actors and system-impacted people. Memorable moments include the nuanced dissection of the gap between public perception and crime data, and the admission that while “defund the police” resonated culturally, practical shifts have been incremental rather than revolutionary.

Takeaways for Listeners

• The COVID-19 pandemic revealed and intensified existing disparities and inefficiencies in the U.S. criminal justice system.
• System-wide adaptations, while not transformative in funding or structure, have opened up new, sometimes more equitable pathways—especially in technology adoption and accessibility.
• Public discourse about crime often clashes with empirical data, which shows crime at historic lows following the pandemic.
• Lasting reforms likely depend on continued focus on social support, technological access, and a reevaluation of frontline workers’ needs and boundaries.