Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Brian Martin, "From Underground Railroad to Rebel Refuge: Canada and the Civil War" (ECW Press, 2022)
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Date: January 12, 2026

Overview of the Episode

This episode features Dr. Miranda Melcher in conversation with author Brian Martin about his book, From Underground Railroad to Rebel Refuge: Canada and the Civil War. The discussion explores Canada's unexpected and multi-faceted role in the American Civil War, not merely as a bystander, but as a destination for both Black refugees seeking freedom and for Confederate plotters, as well as a source of soldiers for both sides. Martin blends vivid personal stories and broader historical context, offering listeners a rare Canadian perspective on this iconic chapter of American history.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Genesis of the Book and Author’s Motivation

• Brian Martin’s Background: Retired journalist from London, Ontario, a city with surprising Civil War connections.
• Origin Story: Curiosity began with discovering gravestones of people born in Charleston, South Carolina in a Canadian cemetery.
  • Quote [03:03]:
    “Who were they? Why did they come here? That was the starting point for this, which happens to be my 10th book and is certainly my most interesting one.” — Brian Martin

2. Framing Analogy: Canada as the "Attic"

• Attic Analogy Explained (from Robin Williams):
  • Canada is “the nice neighbor living above a meth lab.”
  • Quote [04:09]:
    "You know, in Canada, we are a very large country geographically, but we've got about only about one tenth of the population of the United States. ... Trends and events in the United States spill over the border..." — Brian Martin
• Canada’s History of Harboring Americans: From Civil War "skedaddlers" to Vietnam War draft dodgers.

3. Foundational Story: Chloe Cooley and the End of Slavery in Canada

• Chloe Cooley’s Ordeal: Enslaved woman forcibly sent back across the Niagara River to be resold in the US, her outcry sparking Canadian legal reform.
  • Quote [06:21]:
    "She was forced into a boat for the crossing. And she put up such a fuss and screaming and caterwauling and carrying on that it attracted all sorts of attention." — Brian Martin
• Legal Consequence: Her case led to early anti-slavery legislation in Canada, predating Britain’s Slavery Abolition Act (1833).
• Result: Sparked migration north via the Underground Railroad; ~40,000 Black Americans made their way to Canada.

4. The Black Migration: Promise, Reality, and Discrimination

• Motivations for Migration: Reputation as “the Promised Land” or “Canaan.”
  • Quote [07:32]:
    "Here they could buy land or be part of land buying groups. And if they owned land, they could vote." — Brian Martin
• Settlement Patterns:
  • Some formed independent Black settlements (e.g., Buxton, Dresden, Wilberforce), others integrated into towns.
  • Example: In Chatham, a third of the residents were Black migrants ([09:01]).
• Social vs Legal Discrimination:
  • Legally protected freedoms, voting, land ownership.
  • Social discrimination existed (school segregation, fears of property devaluation) but quality of life remained "far better than what they came from" ([08:32]).

5. Canada’s Complicated Relationship with the Civil War

• Official Neutrality: As British colonies, Canada remained formally neutral, balancing lucrative trade with both the North and the South ([13:25]).
• Economic Interests: Provided horses, agricultural goods, and recruited (or “crimped”) fighters for both armies.
  • Quote [14:50]:
    “We profited handsomely... from the Civil War.” — Brian Martin
• Canadian Participation as Soldiers:
  • ~20,000 Canadians fought (mostly for the Union, some for the Confederacy).
  • Motivations: Economic opportunity, family ties, at times tricked or recruited with incentives ([15:51]).
  • Notable anecdote: Emma Edmonds, New Brunswick woman who disguised herself as a man, enlisted as “Franklin Thompson” ([19:57]).
  • Quote [20:59]:
    “Any warm blooded, reasonably healthy person could sign up...I guess it wasn’t much more than a handshake.” — Brian Martin

6. Canada as a Refuge for Draft Dodgers and Skedaddlers

• “Skedaddlers”: American draft dodgers from both North and South settled in Canada ([21:19]).
• Community Dynamics: Generally accepted, though sometimes resented for competing for jobs. No official efforts to expel or extradite them.
  • Quote [21:19]:
    “They seemed to be accepted here and they came in significant numbers.” — Brian Martin

7. Confederate Operations and Espionage in Canada

• Montreal as Confederate Base: Hosted wealthy exiles—mint juleps, Southern culture, and conspiracy ([22:58]).
• Major Plots Hatched:
  • Initial discussions to assassinate Abraham Lincoln ([22:58]).
  • St. Albans Raid on Vermont—the northernmost Confederate raid.
  • Failed attempts: firebombing New York City, spreading yellow fever to destabilize the North.
  • Quote [23:25]:
    “The first talk of assassinating Abraham Lincoln came at the hotel in Montreal that served as their headquarters.” — Brian Martin

8. Confederate Exiles in Postwar Canada

• Influx of Southern Elites:
  • Jefferson Davis, vice presidents, generals all sheltered in Canadian cities (Montreal, Niagara, London, Toronto) ([25:37]).
  • Example: Prominent Confederate families buried in elite Canadian cemeteries ([27:44]).
  • Integration: Many returned when it was safe; some remained permanently.
• Community Acceptance:
  • Societal elite in Canada welcomed them; their wealth and education facilitated assimilation.
  • Quote [30:13]:
    “I would think adjusting to the winters... compared to Charleston, South Carolina would have been a bit of a chore... But people seem to have accepted them.” — Brian Martin

9. The KKK’s Failure to Take Root in Canada

• Attempts at Expansion:
  • Confederates attempted to establish branches of the Ku Klux Klan postwar ([31:03]).
• Why It Failed:
  • Canadian society already dominated by bigoted, anti-Catholic Loyal Orange Lodge (Protestant fraternal order)—left little room for the Klan’s brand of organized white supremacy ([32:36]).
  • Quote [33:17]:
    “When the KKK came knocking... they couldn't compete with the Orange Lodge because it was already very, very strong.”
• Isolated Flare-Ups:
  • Notable rallies and attempts, but ultimately little effect, especially compared to the US.

10. Canada’s Enduring Legacy in Civil War History

• Long-term Impact:
  • Canada played roles both humanitarian and mercenary, at times simultaneously.
  • Ongoing effects on Black communities and political culture.
• Book’s Purpose:
  • To foreground Canadian stories and perspectives, often overlooked in American Civil War history.
  • Quote [35:27]:
    “During the Civil War, we sort of accepted people. Before the Civil War, we accepted a lot of people. After the Civil War, there’s a lot of legacy issues.” — Brian Martin

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Canada’s Position:
  “We profited handsomely... from the Civil War.” ([14:50])
• On Black Migration:
  “The lives of black newcomers were still far better than what they had known back home while enslaved.” ([10:04])
• On Civil War Plotting:
  “The first talk of assassinating Abraham Lincoln came at the hotel in Montreal that served as their headquarters.” ([23:25])
• On Canadian Society:
  “If you were already sort of prejudiced, you were, it seems that you were already a member of the Orange Lodge.” ([33:17])
• On Social Acceptance of Ex-Confederates:
  “Where they are spending eternity is alongside the leading likes of the city... speaks volumes about their acceptance up here.” ([30:13])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:37 — Introduction to Brian Martin, book’s premise
• 04:09 — The “attic” analogy for Canada-US relations
• 05:33 — Story of Chloe Cooley and the end of slavery
• 07:32 — Black migration and the “Promised Land”
• 10:08 — Settlement patterns and early integration
• 13:25 — Canada’s neutral but mercenary role in the war
• 15:51 — Canadian men enlisting for both Union and Confederacy
• 19:57 — Enlistment practices and Emma Edmonds’ story
• 21:19 — American deserters ("skedaddlers") in Canada
• 22:58 — Confederate plotting and the St. Albans Raid
• 25:37 — Ex-Confederate influx postwar
• 31:03 — KKK attempts to organize in Canada
• 35:27 — Legacy and closing reflections

Closing Tone

Brian Martin’s and Miranda Melcher’s conversation remains conversational, at times wry and candid, blending admiration for Canadian openness with a clear-eyed critique of ongoing racism and opportunism. Martin highlights stories rarely told in the Civil War narrative, inviting listeners to explore “the attic” and discover a complex, sometimes contradictory Canadian past.

“During the Civil War, we sort of accepted people. Before the Civil War, we accepted a lot of people. After the Civil War, there’s a lot of legacy issues...” — Brian Martin ([35:27])

For More

To deep dive into these stories and more, check out From Underground Railroad to Rebel Refuge: Canada and the Civil War (ECW Press, 2022)—available in print and audiobook.