Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Bernardo Batis Lasso
Guest: Professor Andrew Godley
Book Discussed: The Making of the Modern Supermarket: Self-Service Adoption in British Food Retailing, 1950-1975 by Bridget Salmon and Andrew Godley (Oxford UP, 2025)
Date: February 12, 2026

This episode explores how the British supermarket emerged in the postwar years, focusing on the transition from traditional counter service to self-service and the role played by Sainsbury’s unique archive in uncovering this transformation. Professor Andrew Godley discusses the research journey, the book's core findings, and the broader implications for understanding retail innovation, management, and consumer habits.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Genesis of the Book and Sainsbury’s Archive

[02:47–09:29]

• The book stems from Bridget Salmon's work as Sainsbury’s archivist and her doctoral research, later completed with Godley's input after she became unable to finish it herself.
• Sainsbury’s archive is unique among British retailers; while most retailers routinely destroyed old records, Sainsbury's family ownership and continuous headquarters meant much material survived.
• The tractable archive allowed an unusually detailed account of Sainsbury’s journey and the wider transformation in British retailing.

Notable Quote:

"Bridget joined Sainsbury's as their archivist in 1982... she sort of created this mandate to be able to build this archive within the organization and to take it forward and to do with it really whatever she wanted."
— Andrew Godley, [03:46]

British Retail Structure Before Supermarkets

[13:29–18:33]

• The traditional high street consisted of small, specialized shops with counter service; shoppers queued at multiple counters and stores for different products.
• World War II and postwar rationing "calcified" this structure, preventing innovation until the early 1950s.

Notable Quote:

"So if you think about the pattern of shopping from a consumer's perspective, there's a lot of time waiting and queuing in the process of trying to buy food."
— Andrew Godley, [15:27]

The Move to Self-Service and Innovation Dynamics

[18:33–27:12]

• By 1950, food retailing was dominated by cooperatives, traditional multiples with small ranges, price-cutting multiples like Tesco, and regional merchants like Sainsbury's.
• Self-service was imported from the US but implemented very differently due to constraints on space, urban planning, and consumer habits.
• Early experiments simply rearranged traditional stores but soon gave way to a demand for bigger, squarer floorplans and broader assortments.

Notable Quote:

"They had to adapt, they had to experiment, they had to work out what was going to work in the UK... the initial experiments were just very, very rudimentary."
— Andrew Godley, [23:07]

Motivations: Convenience vs. Productivity

[27:12–32:46]

• While "convenience" is often cited, labor productivity was a major driver—retailers and governments saw self-service as a way to do more with fewer staff.
• Sainsbury’s paradoxically increased both staff and capital investment, bucking the productivity trend but setting the template for the industry’s future.

Notable Quote:

"What was unusual about Sainsbury's was that it was making massive investment in capital... but at the same time it was also increasing its staffing levels, so its labor productivity gains were zero."
— Andrew Godley, [28:57]

Technology and Automation in Retail

[32:46–35:43]

• Sainsbury's was an early adopter of computing, contradicting the critique of retailer technological conservatism.
• By the early 1960s, Sainsbury's was using mainframe computers and had a statistician on its board, evidencing advanced management.

Notable Quote:

"Despite it being a family firm, despite it being privately owned, despite family being very prominent within the running... the family itself had this strong appreciation of professional management professionalization."
— Andrew Godley, [34:38]

Competition, Formats, and the Importance of Organizational Capability

[35:43–44:45]

• The real competition was not just between companies but between different formats: counter service versus larger, more versatile self-service supermarkets.
• Sainsbury’s succeeded not by being first but by developing the capacity to handle complex product ranges, especially perishables like fresh meat, which required innovations in logistics and refrigeration.

Notable Quote:

"The advantage that Sainsbury's had over all of the others was that in order for them to be able to be successful in self service, they had to be able to figure out how to do the self service of fresh meat. Now, that was really difficult because it's so perishable."
— Andrew Godley, [40:35]

Lessons for Modern Retail and Tech Giants

[44:45–50:35]

• Retail transformation is a profound social innovation, involving not just technology or management but deep learning from actual consumer response.
• Experimentation with "staffless stores" (like Amazon's recent attempts) often misses the core reality: food shopping is social and ritualistic, not reducible to pure convenience or technology.

Notable Quote:

"The initial assumption about what drives human behavior in food shopping is not necessarily going to be correct, it's not just convenience, it's not rarely price... reputation for quality and reliability, all of these are very important."
— Andrew Godley, [48:30]

Surprises in the Research and Looking Forward

[50:35–53:21]

• The research revealed that Sainsbury's was not the earliest adopter of self-service; cooperatives and multiples led the way in the 1950s, but Sainsbury’s format innovations in the 1960s proved most successful.
• Godley’s next project will examine the increasing power of supermarkets over suppliers from the 1970s onwards, with a focus on sectors like poultry.

Notable Quote:

"We’d been thinking that Sainsbury's was one of these pioneers, but it wasn't. It was just experimented a little bit. But by placing this in this wider context... we're able to really see... how Sainsbury's was able to... develop what became these larger supermarkets based on this much bigger product range. And that then made everything make sense."
— Andrew Godley, [52:02]

Selected Timestamp Summary

| Time | Topic | |----------|------------------------------------------------| | 02:47 | Origins of the book & Bridget Salmon’s archive | | 09:56 | Uniqueness of the Sainsbury’s archive | | 14:09 | The pre-supermarket British high street | | 18:33 | Structure of UK food retail in 1950 | | 23:07 | Importing & adapting self-service from the US | | 27:46 | Convenience vs. productivity | | 32:46 | Early adoption of computers at Sainsbury’s | | 36:05 | Format competition more important than ownership| | 40:35 | Sainsbury’s strategic advantage in perishables | | 44:54 | Big takeaways: social innovation, not just tech| | 47:07 | Lessons for Amazon, Google, & retail tech | | 50:50 | Discovery: Sainsbury’s not an early adopter | | 53:32 | Next research: supermarket-supplier power |

Tone and Notable Moments

• The episode is collegial, scholarly, and reflective, with Godley frequently crediting Salmon’s foundational research and Sainsbury’s unique archival culture.
• The story of turning an “almost lost” PhD manuscript into a major publication is moving and frames the book’s depth.
• The nuanced challenge to simplistic views about technology and productivity stresses organizational capability, consumer behavior, and historical context.

Closing Memorable Exchange:

"Food shopping is a social activity... the initial assumption about what drives human behavior in food shopping is not necessarily going to be correct."
— Andrew Godley, [47:45]

Further Reading & Final Reflections

Professor Godley’s next project will extend the supermarket story into the era of supplier consolidation, a topic resonant for anyone studying power and supply chains in modern retail. The conversation ends on a collaborative note, with hopes for further research dialogues intersecting retail, finance, and technology.