Cary Baker, "Down On The Corner: Adventures in Busking & Street Music" (Jawbone Press, 2025)

Summary

---

Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network – New Books in Music

Episode: Cary Baker, "Down On The Corner: Adventures in Busking & Street Music" (Jawbone Press, 2025)
Date: September 5, 2025
Host: Bradley Morgan
Guest: Cary Baker

---

Overview

This episode features music industry veteran and author Cary Baker, discussing his new book Down On The Corner: Adventures in Busking & Street Music. The conversation explores the rich history, social impact, and enduring traditions of busking—street performance—in the U.S. and Europe, blending anecdote, historical research, and stories of both legendary and contemporary street musicians. Baker and Morgan delve into how busking shapes urban culture, blends genres, and remains a vital form of grassroots music-making and social connection.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction to the Book and Busking

• Baker describes his lifelong passion for street music, rooted in his Chicago upbringing and experiences at the famed Maxwell Street market.

  “I’m a fan of busking and I’m a fan of street music… I was just old enough to catch the last vestige of busking on Maxwell street and other parts of town.” —Cary Baker (02:05)

2. Historical Context of Busking

• Explores the ancient origins of busking, its role in disseminating news before the printing press, and the impact of major social changes, including immigration and the industrial revolution.
• The Great Depression saw an uptick in street performing, but also led to legal crackdowns, such as New York’s 1935 ban on busking (not lifted until 1970).

3. Maxwell Street & Chicago Busking Legacies

• Baker’s first forays into music journalism happened after hearing Blind Arvella Gray play on Maxwell Street at age 16, leading to an influential article in the Chicago Reader and producing Gray’s lone album.

  “I considered that if I don’t do anything else on this planet, I have documented the street singer for the world to hear.” —Cary Baker (13:22)

• Maxwell Street as a pivotal space for blues musicians like Muddy Waters, Little Walter, and Robert Nighthawk; it was a multicultural hub central to the transmission of both Black and immigrant musical traditions.

4. Personal Impact of Busking Encounters

• Baker’s early encounters on Maxwell Street shaped his music career, from underground journalism to the eventual executive production of Arvella Gray’s album, and led to lifelong documentation and advocacy of street musicians.

5. Shifts in Urban Culture

• Even as Maxwell Street was physically erased by redevelopment, its legacy persists elsewhere in Chicago, though the musical makeup has changed to reflect the city’s contemporary diversity.

6. Busking in New York & The 1961 Beatnik Riot

• The host and guest examine how legal restrictions led to resistance, culminating in the beatnik riot at Washington Square Park—an event that cemented the right to perform publicly and helped seed the Greenwich Village folk scene.

  “The end result though is that this became an issue that Mayor John Lindsay at the time was… It was during his term in office as mayor that busking became legal, at least in Washington Square…” —Cary Baker (16:40)

7. Moondog and Iconic New York Buskers

• Moondog, famed for performing in Viking garb and championed by composer Philip Glass, typifies the outsider-turned-icon. Baker reflects on Moondog’s resilience, his self-released street recordings, and his eventual triumph at Carnegie Hall.

  “It’s the ultimate American success story.” —Cary Baker (28:22)

8. Violent Femmes and Contemporary Busking Successes

• The Milwaukee-based Violent Femmes’ busking roots helped develop their unique folk-punk sound and directly led to their big break—being noticed by the Pretenders and Slash Records.

  “We just had a busking show… Kind of nostalgic for a band that was now on the road playing inside venues, but they always busked.” —Cary Baker (32:28)

9. European Busking Traditions

• Discussion of British legends like Billy Bragg, who began as a tube busker. Bragg’s direct, protest-focused style and preference for spontaneous performance remain tied to his roots.

  “Billy Bragg is, you know, was kind of a protest singer and an activist all through his career and street singing was a way that he connected.” —Cary Baker (35:26)

• Observes that European busking, especially in the London Underground and Parisian streets, is often more culturally accepted and even venerated.

10. Modern Advocacy & Technology in Busking

• Organizations like Playing for Change use modern technology to unite buskers globally, raise funds, and advocate for artists. New tools such as social media, QR codes, and online payment have changed how buskers garner support and revenue.

  “It’s become a real industry… Merchandise is sold. It’s become a very organized, very social media driven career.” —Cary Baker (43:05, 44:12)

• Examples of contemporary buskers benefiting from new technologies and venues, such as Harry Perry on Venice Boardwalk and Alana Katz Katz in Boston.

11. Current Legal and Social Challenges

• Buskers today face a patchwork of local ordinances, weather, and challenges with noise and space, but overall many U.S. cities now embrace and encourage street performance as a marker of vibrant urban life.

12. How to Support Buskers and the Value of Dignity

• Beyond tips or buying music, treating buskers with respect, dignity, and attention can be transformational.

  “Give them some respect… Maybe give a five dollar bill or ten or a twenty… really what they ask is dignity.” —Cary Baker (52:45)

13. Notable Busking “Success Stories”

• Moondog, Ted Hawkins, Fantastic Negrito, Lucinda Williams, Elvis Costello, Madeline Peyroux, and others are highlighted as artists who leveraged street performance into lasting careers.

14. Recommendations for Discovering Busking History

• For newcomers, Baker suggests starting with foundational artists:
  • Reverend Gary Davis
  • Blind Lemon Jefferson
  • Blind Arvella Gray (if available)
  • Bongo Joe (San Antonio)
  • Cortelia Clark (Nashville—album recorded in the street, won a Grammy in 1967)

  “To me, Cortelia Clark, that record is, you know, the pure busking experience. If you can find it… by all means, listen to it.” —Cary Baker (59:37)

---

Memorable Quotes

• “It was just seeing them amidst the honking of horns and the city street and people walking by and conversing. I, for some reason, found that very compelling and spontaneous and real.” —Kary Baker on the appeal of outdoor street music (10:54)

• “He wasn’t this R&B singer on Interscope Records. He was a new artist, folk blues and he gave himself a new name, Fantastic Negrito.” —Cary Baker (54:06)

• “Busking has become very high tech now… You can sell CDs, posters, memorabilia, they sell T-shirts, and there are QR codes, there are Venmo and PayPal codes.” —Cary Baker (50:18)

---

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Segment | |-----------|-------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:05 | What the book is about and Baker’s personal connection | | 05:16 | Maxwell Street’s history and early blues performers | | 07:49 | Baker’s first Maxwell Street experience and its personal impact | | 12:00 | Producing and documenting Blind Arvella Gray | | 16:40 | The Beatnik Riot and changing laws in New York | | 24:53 | Moondog’s legacy and avant-garde busking | | 29:22 | Violent Femmes’ beginnings as street musicians | | 34:48 | Billy Bragg and the London tube/European busking traditions | | 41:13 | Advocacy organizations—Playing for Change | | 42:57 | Changing laws, technology, and the modern state of busking | | 47:43 | New generation of buskers and innovations in street performance | | 52:45 | How audiences can meaningfully support buskers | | 58:32 | Baker’s recommendations for discovering the history and essential artists |

---

Conclusion

Cary Baker’s conversation provides a sweeping, insightful look into the world of street music, blending historical research with hands-on stories and advocacy. Grounded in a belief in busking’s vitality, authenticity, and importance, the episode is both a tribute and a guide for those interested in the intersection of music, culture, and urban life.

---

Further Reading:
Find Cary Baker’s Down On The Corner: Adventures in Busking & Street Music from Jawbone Press (2025) for a comprehensive exploration of this enduring musical tradition.

---

Transcript

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

This episode is brought to you by White Claw Search Great podcast pick friend.

[Bradley Morgan]

No surprises there. After all, you're all about finding the tastiest flavors out there, just like White Claw Surge.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

And with big bold flavors to enjoy.

[Bradley Morgan]

Like blood orange, BlackBerry, cranberry and more.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

It'S time to go all in on taste. Unleash the flavor. Unleash White Claw Surge. Please drink responsibly.

[Kerry Baker]

Hard Seltzer with flavors 8% alcohol by.

[Bradley Morgan]

Volume Whitecloth Seltzer Works Chico, Illinois Abercrombie.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice 2]

Denim is everything right now. Denim should feel like this. Confident, easy, like your butt has never looked better. If you didn't know Abercrombie's Curve Love Denim went viral in 2019 for eliminating waist gap and it's still a game changer. Between that and their classic fits with a straighter line from waist to hip, the perfect denim does exist. Shop Abercrombie Denim in the app, online and in store. When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the.

[Bradley Morgan]

Secure messaging app that brings the whole group together.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice 2]

Use polls to settle dinner plans, send event invites and pin messages so no one forgets mom 60th and never miss a meme or milestone. All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone. Learn [e-mail].

[Kerry Baker]

Welcome to the New Books Network.

[Bradley Morgan]

Hello. Welcome to New Books and Music, a channel on the New Books Network. My name is Bradley Morgan and I'm joined today by my guest, Kerry Baker. Carrie has been a music industry professional for over four decades, having managed publicity for numerous bands such as R.E.M. bonnie, Rate, the Smithereens, and more, and has written liner notes for historical reissues for labels such as University Numero Group as well as others. His latest book is down on the Adventures in Busking and Street Music and is published by Jawbone Press. Cary, thanks so much for joining me today.

[Kerry Baker]

Well, it's a pleasure to be here.

[Bradley Morgan]

To get things started. Could you share with us what your book is about?

[Kerry Baker]

Sure. My book is called down on the Adventures in Busking and Street Music. And that's about what it's about. I'm a fan of busking and I'm a fan of street music. Fortunate to have grown up in Chicago, where I was just old enough to catch the last vestige of busking on Maxwell street and other parts of town. And since then I've seen busking everywhere from Milwaukee to New Orleans to Austin to the New York subways to LA and the Venice Boardwalk.

[Bradley Morgan]

So your book profiles many different street musicians, some known and others are more obscure. But before we talk to them, let's talk to the recent history of busking. And busking goes back centuries and even millennia back to ancient ro. Ancient Greece, where it became kind of a way to provide the soundtrack to people's lives. And eventually buskers became disseminators of news way before the advent of the printing press. And, you know, they managed to go through a lot of the changes that happened culturally. You know, you document the industrial revolution into the early 20th century. And so to get into more of a recent history, during the Great Depression, many unemployed musicians took to busking to perform on the streets. And at that time, city officials were starting to crack down on busking. Some cities relegated public performance to only certain designated areas or required performers to get a permit, such as the case with New York, where street performing was banned in 1935 and the ban wasn't lifted until 1970. Considering what is happening in the news today, it's difficult to not think that bans on street performers were a direct response to immigrants arriving in New York at that time. Could you tell us more about that?

[Kerry Baker]

Sure. Well, certainly immigrants, including black migrants from the deep south to the big city, the big industrial northern cities were a big factor in busking. I'm sure there were European immigrant musicians that played on the streets of New York. I very carefully tracked the black musicians that came up from the deep south, in particular interest of mine being blues. And that would include artists like Reverend Gary Davis, who started his career busking out in front of the tobacco factories of Durham, North Carolina, and made his way to Harlem. Blind Lemon Jefferson, who gave people a reason to go out and see one another. In Deep Ellum district of Dallas and make Georgia, there was Reverend Pearly Brown. And in Chicago, Maxwell street was a hotbed of European immigration. I only wish my father were alive. He was a European immigrant and. And his parents used to take him to Maxwell Street. I wish he were alive today for me to have picked his brain about whether or not. Whether or not there was music of European origin there. I'm sure that there was. But Maxwell street really got onto the map with the advent of bluesingers coming up from the deep South.

[Bradley Morgan]

The musicians you profile in the book are incredibly fascinating. And the historical context which opens your book really helps in understanding how these artists have contributed to the music and what makes this form so uniquely special. So with that, let's talk about a couple of the musicians you discuss. You grew up in the south side of Chicago, and I live on the north side. So let's begin with.

[Kerry Baker]

Actually, I was born. To clarify, I was born on the south side and was there the first two or three years of my life before actually being. Before I moved to the north suburbs.

[Bradley Morgan]

Okay. All right, thank you. And so let's talk about the city's rich busking history. You mentioned Maxwell street earlier. And for those who may be less familiar, Maxwell street was a flea market west of Chicago's Loop that was around from the 1950s through the 1980s. And you write about visiting Maxwell street in 1970 as a child with your father, where you note that what changed from when you were. When your father was a kid was this presence of music or what kind of performers could you see on Maxwell street during that time?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, Maxwell street actually goes back to the 40s as a. A mecca for. For blues musicians. At that time, you had people like Muddy Waters, Little Walter, Robert Nighthawk and others playing there. I think by then the European immigrants had moved on and in my father's case, had moved. Moved from the tenements of the west side, where his tenement was actually torn down to put up the Eisenhower Expressway, and moved on to the Leaving Max Postfried, a great place for black members of the community to get together on Sunday, buy, sell, trade and play music. So you had people like Muddy Waters, Robert Nighthawk, as I mentioned, Jimmy Lee Robinson. In fact, every. Every. Every surviving blues artist that I talked to of that vintage Bobby Rush, has a story about Maxwell Street. They all went there and they would often go because Chicago was a 5am bar, closing time. They would often go after their shows at taverns on the south side and the west side. Maybe there'd be an hour in between before sunrise and people showing up, but they would get the choice corners in which to set up. And it became a great place for blues artists to be discovered even before they were signed to Chess Records or such.

[Bradley Morgan]

In the book, you write about how seeing these musicians on Maxwell street made you realize that your life had turned a corner. Personally, what impact did that experience have on you?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, as I mentioned, I grew up in the suburbs and I was aware that my father was. My father and mother were South Siders and Westsiders and sons and daughters of immigrants. But growing up in the north suburbs, I discovered blues on FM radio. Really, for me, it was hearing Electric Mud by Muddy Waters is his album that the critics thought pandered to a rock audience. Well, it worked on this rock fin and I. I Went out and bought it and looked at the back of the album and, and Chess Records, Chicago, IL 60616. And I thought, wow, I, I need to know all about this. So my father wanted to take me to Maxwell street one day. And he hadn't really realized that Maxwell had turned the corner and now was a, a, a hotbed of blues musicians. But I was 16. He took me and we parked at the UIC Park Roosevelt and, and Halstead. And the first thing I heard was just the clanging of metal on metal. It was music, but it was metal on metal, clearly slide on a National Steel resonator guitar. And I said, dad, we just need to follow this music. We followed it to a performer that I would soon be learn was named Blindervilla Gray. And I only found that out by listening to him for about 30 minutes. He was playing one song, John Henry, repeating it ceaselessly before I tapped him on the shoulder and said, m Rob, this is great. What's your name and can I get your phone number? And he told me his name and gave me his phone number. And my father had a pen and we jotted it down. I was about 16 by then, and the Chicago Reader had just begun to circulate. Living in the north suburbs, I saw it in downtown Evanston, in particular on Northwestern Campus where I would often take walks. And I did this interview with Arvella after school and wrote it up as best I knew how. I hadn't taken a journalism class yet, but by then working for the underground newspaper at New Trier High School. And I wrote it up, put a stamp on the envelope, dropped it off in the mailbox, and a few weeks later, as I walked downtown Evanston, there it was in print. I thought, wow, you know, this is really cool. And a few weeks after that came a check for $25 in the mail. I thought, wow, they actually pay you for this? In addition to seeing your byline in print, you get paid. But by then I was going to Maxwell street every opportunity I had. And by then I was 16 and able to borrow family car. And they weren't thrilled with me taking it down to Maxwell Street. But it was Sunday morning and my friends and I used to carpool down there and soon discovered that in addition to our Vella Gray, there was his sister, Granny Latrispi, there was little Pat Rushing, there was Maxwell Street Jimmy Davis, who had made a record for Electra Records. There was oh, Blindjun Brewer, who had a gig at the Noexit Cafe at Glenwood, and Lunt I believe every Monday night. But on Sundays you could see him leading a gospel group on electric guitar out about Sangamon and 14th Street. So there was a whole world there that I soon became familiar with. I, I took my camera, which wasn't much, it was a codec Instamatic. But my, my photos were published all over the world. And as I soon found out that people from, from England, Sweden and Australia who published blues magazines were interested in this. So I, I, interviewing everybody. I, I went to Granny's apartment, I interviewed some of the others by phone. And every chance I had I would see Blind Jim Brewer in, in, at the no Exit Cafe. But I really preferred seeing these artists out of doors. It was, it was just seeing them amidst the, the, the honking of horns and the city street and people walking by and conversing. I, for some reason, found that very compelling and spontaneous and real.

[Bradley Morgan]

So your life as a writer began with that article on Arvella for the Chicago Reader, but you write in the book that your quest to promote him didn't stop there. What else did you do to bring Arvella to a wider audience as well as, you know, the, the vibrant Maxwell street culture?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, I, I had a love for music. I also had a love for record companies. I really didn't. I hadn't been to many of them. I, I called Chess Records one day and asked if I could come down. I was music director of my high school radio station at New Trier High School, which is still around the station. And part of my job was to chase down records from every available label. And that was a more appealing prospect for me than studying algebra. And it showed. So I, after school, I would go to record distributors and I discovered a couple of things. First of all, there was a record row in Chicago on South Michigan Avenue from about Roosevelt down to Cermak. And I would go and like school holidays and even summer vacations, summer break, and see if I could, you know, get records. But I also discovered that there was a label in Wilmette, Illinois, where I grew up. And I was imminently curious about it. So I called them up and a guy answered the phone and said, well, we basically do old country, old wls, barn dance country. Patsy Montana, Lulu Bell and Scotty. I said, would you be interested in a blind blues street singer from Maxwell Street? And the guy said, you mean Arvella Gray? He had heard of him. So I said, yeah, why don't we document him? I didn't really care to know too much more about the label than that. I didn't ask too many questions. The guy was interested and agreed to do it and book some studio time. And he was a non driver, Arvella Gray, obviously blind, a non driver. So I was the designated driver. I picked up the head of Birch Records, his name was Dave Wiley in Wilmette. And we took a drive down the Kennedy and the dan Ryan to 49th street, right around where Blinder Vella Gray lived. And then we got back on the Ryan and drove south to Harvey, Illinois to Sound Unlimited Studios. And we did an all night session from about 8 o' clock until the sun came up 8am the next day and drove up the Ryan, dropped him off on the south side and drove back to Wilmette. So in essence I kind of executive produced or directed, if not produced, the one album by Blindervilla Gray. And I considered It at age 17, I was about 17, maybe even 18 by then. I considered that if I don't do anything else on this planet, I have documented the street singer for the world to hear. And all I really did at the session was tap him on the shoulder and say, okay, next song please. And he performed 12, 13, 14 selections. In fact, there were even some songs we didn't put on the album. But that eventually when given the one time CD reissue rights by Birch Records, which no longer really existed by then I put out some of the outtakes as well. So I've done my bit to document Arvella. And then of course I put him front and center in my book.

[Bradley Morgan]

In what ways can you find that history of Maxwell street still resonating in Chicago today?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, I, for the last 40 years I've lived, pardon me, I've lived in Los Angeles. So it's been hard for me to track it day to day, but I actually have tried to pay attention. Maxwell street was demolished in the, oh, I think about the 80s, early 90s. And I drove by there this past summer to find a Starbucks and a Jamba Juice and luxury condominiums. It's quite different than it was in the 40s, 50s, 60s and even 70s. But Maxwell street has jumped across the freeway to a couple of locations, the best known of which is on Des Plaines street. And I think the next best known is Canal Street. So these have sort of been ersatz Maxwell street and from what I understand, I took a walk down there once and didn't see much street music. But what you see now is not just probably not blues unless, unless people are being a little nostalgic in that fashion. But Songs of Latino population. A little bit of everything really as well it should be in a city as diverse as Chicago.

[Bradley Morgan]

Throughout your book you explore the history of busking across several different regions in America. So I want to just move from Chicago to New York. And earlier I had mentioned how street performances were banned in New York. However, many musicians were willing to fight for their right to perform in public. And in 1961 this led to one of the most storied busking protests of all time, the beatnik riot. How did that riot start and what happened?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, it wasn't pre planned from what I understand. I've spoke to a few people who were there, spoke to Rambling Jack Elliott, I spoke to a couple of producers who were also musicians, David Cohn and being one of them. And from what I understand, it just really boiled over. The busking was expressly illegal and yet Greenwich Village had become a folk hotbed. And accordingly there was spillover into the nearby park Washington Square by many folk singers who would form the so called Folk Scare of the early 60s. What happened is it just really kind of it happened. The buskers came out and so did the law enforcement and there were several arrests. The end result though is that this became an issue that Mayor John Lindsay at the time was. It was during his term in office as mayor that busking became legal, at least in Washington Square and in certain parts of the city it had its limits. I don't think it was quite legal yet in the subways, but you know, the Washington Square did become a folk scene and you had people like Rambling Jack Elliot then all the way up to and including and beyond David Peel, who I didn't get to interview because he's passed away, but he, he famously sang marijuana songs. Interestingly, Electra Records was around the corner at the time. Electra Records went on to become a rock label and it still exists as an imprint of the Warner Music Group at this point. But Jack Holtzman, its founder, was still in charge and happened to sign quite a few buskers from that era, you know, Dave Van Ronck and for that matter David Thiel, who I mentioned, who was discovered twice, once by Danny Fields, best known as the Ramones manager in the late 60s when he saw David Peel singing marijuana songs. And Electra signed him again. But a little earlier than that, 1967, there was a singer named Oliver Smith who would occasionally sing in Washington Square, but I believe he was actually found on the street, not in the park. And he too was signed by for a one album deal by Electra records and he was never, never heard from by the guy who discovered him again. He just made this record the day he was discovered and went away. But Washington Square and Greenwich Village obviously have a great folk history, and a lot of that is documented in a new book written by David Brown about the Greenwich Village scene.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice 2]

Eczema isn't always obvious, but it's real, and so is the relief from Evglis. After an initial dosing phase, about 4 in 10 people taking EBGLIS achieved itch relief and clear or almost clear skin at 16 weeks. And most of those people maintain skin that's still more clear at one year with monthly dosing.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

EBGLIS Librekizumab LBKZ, a 250mg injection, is a prescription medicine used to treat adults and children 12 years of age and older who weigh at least 88 pounds or 40 kilograms with moderate to severe eczema, also called atopic dermatitis that is not well controlled with prescription therapies used on the skin or topicals or who cannot use topical therapies. EBGLIS can be used with or without topical corticosteroids. Don't use if you're allergic to ebglis. Allergic reactions can occur that can be severe. Eye problems can occur. Tell your doctor if you have new or worsening eye problems. You should not receive a live vaccine when treated with Epglis. Before starting Epglis, tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection searching for real relief?

[Sponsor/Ad Voice 2]

Ask your doctor about epglis and visit eglis.lilly.com or call 1-800-LilyRx or 1-800-545-5979. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Checking off the boxes on your to do list is a great feeling. And when it comes to checking off coverage, a State Farm agent can help you choose an option that's right for you. Whether you prefer talking in person on the phone or using the award winning app, it's nice knowing you have help finding coverage that best fits your needs. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there prime delivery is fast. How fast are we talking? We're talking puzzle toys and lick pad. Delivered so fast you can get this puppy under control fast. We're talking chew toys at your door without really waiting. Fast pads, cooling mat and pet him are fast and fast. And there's training T R E a T s faster than you can say sit fast. And now we can all relax and order these matching hoodies to get cozy and cute fast Fast free delivery. It's on Prime.

[Bradley Morgan]

Yeah. That band was something I didn't know. And I was really fascinated about that history because there is such a rich folk scene from Branch Village and Washington Square Park. How did the artists navigate that ban?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, they, they didn't listen to it much. They, they either went to places in which the law was not being enforced or they took it. And that would include, by the way, Harlem, which was a great place to see the very early doo wop singers from that era. And maybe the law enforcement wasn't quite as chomping at the bit to get, you know, street corner duos rehearsing after school maybe at the corner of 145th and Lexington up in Harlem. And in fact, that's where Satan, a singer named Satan, who had been in a previous Life, a Sterling McGee, a recording artist for Ray Charles Tangerine label, he had found his way up to Harlem. And there was a whole, whole scene happening up there. And, and there was also a scene on at the Beach. I, I get into Venice Beach a lot in my book, but there was also a scene going on on the east coast in Rockaway Beach. And I was fortunate to talk to Jay Siegel of the Tokens, well known for their song the Lion Sleeps Tonight. And they used to, they used to perform after school. Call it perform, call it performing, call it rehearsing, call it getting public exposure and maybe even getting a record contract out at Rockaway Beach. So New York really had busking everywhere you looked.

[Bradley Morgan]

Footage of the beatnik riot was captured by filmmaker Don Drazen, who then directed a 17 minute documentary about the riot. Could you tell us more about the documentary and the impact that it had?

[Kerry Baker]

I watched the documentary as I was making the. As I was writing the book. And it's been a long time since I have. But I do recall just a lot of violence. And it was, it was not a, it was kind of a violent scene, but it ended up that. It ended up the end result being legality of, of busking in, in the park.

[Bradley Morgan]

Was the ban in New York a type of way to diminish immigrants or, you know, possibly people who may have had communist sympathies like, like what exactly drove the ban for street performances?

[Kerry Baker]

I don't really think the band that we're talking about had a lot to do with immigrants. I think that the artists who were playing were now folk singers who would congregate in that part of the city. In fact, as I mentioned, it was the black migrants from the south who had the doo Wop groups that were really by and large being left alone or for that matter Italian or Jewish doo wop singers. Italian. An example might be the Four Seasons or Dion DiMucci Jewish. The tokens. I spoke with Jay Siegel about, about busking and, and so doo wop was really the, the, the art form that, that brought buskers of every ethnic denomination to the city and they were by and large left alone by law enforcement as far as I been able to. To tell.

[Bradley Morgan]

So New York has such a deep and rich musical history that it's really difficult to pick any one artist to discuss. But I can't pass up an opportunity to talk about Moond recognition for his very unique style. Could you tell us more about Moondog and how he became such an iconic figure in the world of busking?

[Kerry Baker]

Absolutely. Moondog was born in Kansas and that's obviously not his real name. He moved to New York where he was a one man jazz and classical act in the streets of Manhattan and not, not in, not in Greenwich Village and not, not in Washington Square but really right around midtown. And, and if anything by then he was really left to, left to do what he does. He had a very odd appearance. He was very well known for dressing day in and day out as a, a Norwegian biking. He had, he had a long robe, he had, he had a pitchfork, he had a, a helmet with horns. And he would stand there and, and play and play various instruments for from what I understand. And I don't think he had much, I don't think he had many run ins with the law, at least I'm not aware of any. But he was very importantly discovered by avant garde composer Philip Glass who actually at the time that Moondog was homeless and there were times in which he was. Took him in as a house guest and really maybe brought out the avant garde composer and Moondog. Moondog eventually got to play inside Carnegie hall as an actual attraction. And I became familiar with him two ways. He had an album out on Columbia Records when I was in high school. That again my job as music director of the radio station. I went to Columbia Records one day and said this looks curious. Picked it up and it was the Moondog album produced by William James, William Grucio, I think that's how you pronounce it. Who is best known for producing the band Chicago. But he produced Moondog, a very important album by him. And then one day I was, I was at the Jazz Record Mart in Chicago which was then located at Grandin State right near the subway stop. And I, I guess I'm genetically early for everything. And I got to the store about 10:30 for an 11:00 clock opening. I usually was okay just standing around and watching the cityscape, which was, you know, cool for me as a suburban kid. But waiting for the jazz record mark to open that day was Moondog. And I was a little shy. I knew exactly who he was. I think we exchanged a few words and I can't remember what, but basically we just stood there until the Jazz Record Mart opened. But he was among the many artists who would congregate there, another, of course, being Blindervilla Gray from Maxwell street, who would actually play in front of it. So Moondog got some recognition. He wasn't always homeless. He. He got to make a record or two for Columbia, and I think he died, you know, having engendered some respect as a real musician. And he got to tour. He really got to, you know, to play the. The venues that he was at one point standing out in front of and toured all over the world.

[Bradley Morgan]

Moondog would often sell homemade recordings directly to people on the streets, and that helped him establish a connection with the public and to get his music out there. Do you know what these early recordings were like?

[Kerry Baker]

I really don't. I'm afraid so.

[Bradley Morgan]

Then he would earn a rec. So with that, he would earn recognition as a street performer during the 60s, but by 74, his career as a musician would reach a breakthrough moment when he performed at Carnegie Hall.

[Kerry Baker]

That's right.

[Bradley Morgan]

Could you tell us more about that concert?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, I really can't, but I think that it was Philip Glass, as I mentioned, who was able to introduce him to the right people to get that concert. And I think by then he had received enough press as a result of his association with Philip Glass to earn him a hallowed spot at Carnegie Hall. And I think that the audience was prime to see somebody with such a story of overcoming homelessness and landing at Carnegie Hall. It's the ultimate American success story.

[Bradley Morgan]

So, as I mentioned, you cover a lot of different regions across the country, and these aren't just artists who have been gone for several decades. You also profile more contemporary artists as well. Moving back to the Midwest, you profile the Violent Femmes who got their start as busking. Could you tell us a little bit more about how they began and how they gained prominence in the Milwaukee area?

[Kerry Baker]

The. The Violent Fan is. Were a band that started in. In basements in. In Milwaukee. Three guys. Victor DeLorenzo, Brian Richie, and. And lead songwriter and singer Gordon Ghana. And they were pre Rehearsing in basements. One day one of them had the idea let's go out and play in the street. And the other two thought that was a crazy idea. But they thought, well, this is better than the basement. So they started playing in downtown Milwaukee. And there were two theaters in downtown Milwaukee. They liked playing in the under the marquees of each. There wasn't always stuff going on at the theaters. Often they were dark, but they would play the downer in the Oriental theaters in downtown Milwaukee. So jump cut to. I'm now out of college and I have a degree in journalism and I'm writing for the punk new wave magazine called Trouser Press out of New York. And Trouser Press calls me one day and, and asks if Milwaukee is anywhere near Chicago. And I, I laughed and I said, yeah, you know, about 90 minutes. What do you need? And they told me that a, A, a punk band that plays folk instruments, kind of a folk punk band called the Violin Femmes, who I hadn't heard of until then, had been signed by Slash Records. Slash being a very intriguing label. One foot in punk, but another foot in American roots music. They had signed and X and Los Lobos. So on signing a Milwaukee band that plays punk rock on acoustic guitars and acoustic bass, there's a lot of interest. And Slash Records was about to put out their new album. I didn't really have the chance to hear them before I needed to go up to Milwaukee. So the guys decided to play me a. Perform for me as they do in downtown Milwaukee. We did the interview on the streets and you know, the record didn't arrive for a few more days at my house. But you know, the band had by then kind of demonstrated what they do on the streets of Milwaukee. We did the interview and so, so jump. A couple months later I had a couple of PR clients. I was mainly a freelance writer, but I, I had a couple of clients, one of which was a kind of. Of indie rock new wave punk venue in Chicago called Tuts, which occupied the former space of the Quiet Night at right around Belmont and the L tracks, Belmont Sheffield and I, the Violin Femmes were now regular. They were scheduled to do a regular, a real gig there inside the club, but as a promotion man. Now I got the idea and ran it by the band. Why don't we have you guys busk and play out on the street at the commuter rush hour about 5, 6pm the night of your gig, right out in front of Belmont? So we did. I had some photographers come out, Paul Napkin, a Very famous photographer has some images that you can see through Getty Images, Linda Matlow. There were others. And we just had a busking show. Kind of nostalgic for a band that was now on the road playing inside venues, but they always busked. And, in fact, I should back. Backtrack to say that back in Milwaukee, it was when they were busking in front of the, I think, the Downer Theater that the Pretenders were playing one night. And of all things, James Honeyman Scott of the Pretenders happened to notice them in the afternoon as he was arriving for his sound check. And they were busking in the afternoon. And he went and got Chrissy Hind of the band. And Chrissy came out and said, why don't you guys play a few songs before a real opening act? We have an opening act playing on tour, but you guys could do a few songs before that. And I think Milwaukeeans just like Moondog got to go inside Carnegie Hall. Of course, he was the headliner. By then, a lot of Milwaukee's jaws dropped as they saw these guys from the street playing a real gig with the Pretenders.

[Bradley Morgan]

So I think a lot of people who have an understanding of busking see it as a way for a musician to get discovered and if they're so lucky, to get discovered and. And be given the opportunity to record in a studio with professional, you know, instruments and musicians that sometimes their sounds can change. And with the Violent Femmes, they certainly have the horns of dilemma at, you know, at some point in their career, but they largely, really, kind of aesthetically and sonically remain true to their busking traditions throughout a lot of the recordings. Could you tell us more about that?

[Kerry Baker]

They remain kind of a folk punk band. Personnel has changed, and I'm not sure what the Violin Femmes are at this point, but they kept true to their busking aesthetic. You know, a snare drum and so the drum set, perhaps a handheld acoustic bass instead of an electric bass. And I'm sure that they may have taken forays into electric instruments limitation for this recording or that at some point, I didn't keep up with every album, but. And at some point, they probably weren't playing the street. But, you know, I think the aesthetic that they. That they sewed by. By being street singers was apparent all through their musical career.

[Bradley Morgan]

It's very impressive how much ground you cover in the book because you explore more than just American Buskers. You also profile some European ones as well as, you know, including some notable names like Elvis Costello and Glenn Hansard. But one iconic British musician who has been performing for nearly 50 years is Billy Bragg. And busking in London during the late 70s gave him this opportunity to really develop his skills and connect with audiences. But he is known for more politically charged songs. How did Bragg use topical messaging to connect with audiences early on in his career as this undiscovered busking artist?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, he was always an activist. Billy Brand was somebody who was political from the onset and music is certainly one way to demonstrate to protest. And I think he was using protest music in the purest form. Eye to eye on the street in the London Tube. He became a tube singer. I do a lot of, I talk to a lot of artists, both American and, and a British and miscellaneous European who started in a London tube which was a great place to be discovered and seen and talked to Rambling Jack Elliott who played for a group of school kids in the tube and one of them happened to be Mick Jaggery. Later found out Mick came up to him 30 years later and said hey, I was one of those school kids. Talked to Mary Lou Lord, I spoke to Mojo Nixon and a time owned dog who's a friend of Joe Strummer. But Billy Bragg is, is, you know, was kind of a protest singer and an activist all through his career and street singing was a way that he connected. He also told me that as a result of street singing he didn't always insist on a sound check. Artists are very particular about their sound checks nowadays and they, they do them around 6pm for an 8pm show. Billy said hey, just, just throw me up there. I'll, I'll, I'll get the guitar in tune and we'll get the vocal levels right. So I think Buskin gave him a spontaneity that, that was apparent and still apparent all through his career.

[Bradley Morgan]

As you mentioned, Billy per, you know, he performed in London's underground tube stations and he actually had a preference for that over performing on the street. Do you know why that was?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, he, the, the tube seems to be a, you get a captive audience there and it's a very good question. I'm really not sure why the tube was favored over streets to the degree that it was. And I'm not exactly sure of busking ordinances at that point in London, but tube singers were, were a phenomenon and he was part of that phenomena. Like I said, you know, Rambling J. Elliott was an American who played in the early 60s. I'm sure there were singers dating back to the the 50s and, and, and, and earlier who, who played the twos but I happened to, you know, hop onto the tube so to speak with with Ramblin Jack and and then with Billy Bragg and some of the others that I mentioned.

[Bradley Morgan]

So Billy has become, you know, a really relevant and popular musician over the last connected to his busking roots throughout his career, even today, and especially in support of various causes. How does he continue to connect with the busking culture now?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, he still will will appear at protests. He is very committed to activism and certainly there's a lot to be activist about in this day and age. I haven't really kept up with what he's done in recent years, but it's not uncommon to see him at protests and as a spokesperson for causes. I think he's he originated as as a singer of causes and continues to be one Race the rudders. Raise the sails.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Raise the sails. Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching. Over Roger, Wait, is that an enterprise sales solution? Reach sales professionals, not professional sailors. With LinkedIn ads, you can target the right people by industry, job title and more. Start converting your B2B audience today. Spend $250A on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started [e-mail] campaign terms and conditions apply.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice 2]

Introducing the perfect companion to your morning listening routine. AG1's clinically backed formula is now flavor packed with three new delicious flavors, tropical berry and citrus. Start the day on a high note with probiotics that taste like the tropics. Mix it up with micronutrients that taste like berry or citrus, and take it all the way back with the classic AG1 original with notes of pineapple and vanilla. Do your health a flavor or four with AG1 next gen, the Daily Health Drink. Learn [e-mail] hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.

[Bradley Morgan]

Now I was looking for fun ways.

[Kerry Baker]

To tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice 2]

If we made $15 bills, but it.

[Kerry Baker]

Turns out that's very illegal.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

So there goes my big idea for the commercial.

[Kerry Baker]

Give it a [e-mail] switch upfront payment.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice 2]

Of $45 for three month plan equivalent to 15 per month required new customer offer for first three months only. Speed slow after 35 gigabytes of networks busy taxes and fees extra.

[Bradley Morgan]

C mint mobile.com so busking has been around for a long time and has long standing traditions that are still around today. And and as you profile artists who from both America and Europe.

[Kerry Baker]

Europe.

[Bradley Morgan]

Did you notice any difference between American and European busking culture?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, it almost sounds as though the London Tube, and for that matter, some of the streets of Paris. I spoke to one artist, one American artist who began her career there, Madeleine Peru. There almost seems to be. It almost seems to be a more charitable place to do it. And some of that may go back to, you know, to Shakespearean times where outdoor performance was encouraged and even, even venerated and, and respected. I, I can't really say, but the London Tube is certainly a place that both Londoners and Americans cut their teeth.

[Bradley Morgan]

In addition to all the artists you profile in the book, you also cover organizations that are doing advocacy work to support busking and street performers. And one such organization is Playing for Change. Can you tell us about the work that they do?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, Playing for Change is a wonderful organization that has used high tech and used, you know, the power of the Internet to not only elevate buskers, but to elevate consciousness of buskers and for that matter, to help raise funds for worthy organizations. There was an artist, and I'm blanking on his name right now, who did a version of Stand By Me. And the organization stationed buskers all over the world, on every continent, singing Stand By Me simultaneously. And that's a wonderful video that you can find by just searching for Playing for Change Stand By Me. At some point, the organization formed the record label, which is affiliated with Concord Music, and there are actually a couple of benefit albums that they've put out as well. So as well as soliciting for causes on the Internet, you can buy their records, you can watch their videos, and hopefully they've, they've given a little bit of fame and maybe, maybe a better livelihood to some of the artists who, who performed. The names of the artists escape me, but, you know, they're from all over the world. And it really started with one New Orleans musician that they found, as I say, singing Stand By Me, a perfect busking song.

[Bradley Morgan]

What are the current laws targeting busking or what are the challenges that current day buskers are facing?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, busking really has become not only legal in a lot of cities that, you know, ordinances differ from city to city. New York respects it, Los Angeles respects it, and you can now see buskers at farmers markets. It's almost encouraged. I mean, what I, what I think about busking is that cities have disco, have discovered that in the day, day and age of Amazon, when you can buy just about anything and it lands on your doorstep the following day, maybe even the Same day. What's your reason to go downtown to the shopping district? Maybe it's for a little bit more than just the merchandise. Maybe, maybe. Maybe busking is something that draws people out of their homes and into a shopping district. I see buskers everywhere I go nowadays. I just got back from a couple of weeks in Central California and saw them in San Luis Obispo, a very little city, but with a very urban downtown. And saw them on every, every street corner on a Thursday night. It was, it was great. And the following night it was Farmer's market in the nearby town of Morro Bay. And some of the same faces plus others busking and other guitar cases open. Of course, busking has become very high tech now. And there are QR codes and another, you know, PayPal and Venmo. All that information is noted in the, in the guitar case. Merchandise is sold. It's become a, it's become a, it's become a real industry. There's one busker that I wish I had put in the book who I've come to know as a friend. Her name is Alana Katz. Katz, that's K A T Z said twice. Katz, Katz. Her both her maiden name and her husband's name. And she is a busker from Boston. And she has made a career of not only playing fiddle, Appalachian and loose fiddle out on the streets, but she makes and sells tie dyed clothing and sells her CDs. And it's a very organized, very social media driven career that she has. Plus she gets to play indoors and at concerts. But she's a very proud busker and there are many like her everywhere. Obviously New Orleans, we didn't talk much about New Orleans, but there was a busking. There's several advocates in New Orleans. There was an attorney named Mary Howell who was very active in a working city council. There was a duo called David and Rosalyn, a married couple who actually took their busking into the city council meeting and busked for them. And I think at some point in a city like New Orleans, they, they've got to realize that, hey, one of the tourist attractions here, one of the reasons people are flying here and spending money in our stores and restaurants and clubs and bars is, is live music. Let's take stock on this and at least make it legal on Royal street and in Jackson Square, which they've done in Austin. Busking was not always a legal practice, but Austin prides itself in being live music capital of the world. I spoke to a few artists who had played there. Poi Dog Pondering came from Hawaii, somehow got to the mainland, but busked their way from Santa Monica and San Diego all the way to Austin where they bused for quite a while. And Lucinda Williams, who was a busker up by the University of Texas on Guadalupe street. The drag where she was, you know, discovered by everybody from the, the the would be owner of Water Waterloo Records to others because Austin, you know, has the years and eyes of the, of the music industry. So Macon, Georgia, you know, there were blues singers much like Maxwell street, including Reverend Pearly Brown who ended up on the COVID of Willie's Million Selling Yvonne Smiling album. So busking has become appreciated. I'm pretty sure that, you know, it's, it's certainly encouraged on, on the, the current Maxwell street that like I say is, is either canal or just plain street at this point. Now I, I see, I see buskers, I see outdoor musicians who I don't consider buskers. I was at the Farmer's Market and I live in the California desert nowadays and I was in 29 Palms near Joshua Tree at the Farmer's Market and saw a smooth jazz guitarist playing to a backing track. No spontaneity, you know, the backing track is pretty much locked in and by my definition that's not busking but power tool if he wants to play his music. Got a sign.

[Bradley Morgan]

So you just mentioned a couple artists there, but who are some of the newer generation of buskers or street performers that have really caught your attention?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, certainly Alana Cat's Cats from Boston is one. When I moved to Los Angeles I took a Venice Boardwalk stroll and I happened to catch Ted Hawkins who became a kind of well known soul singer. And in fact he was signed to Geffen Records right off Venice Boardwalk which was remarkable little live Moondog in that respect. But I also happen to see a, a a A guy named Harry Perry who was a. Dressed like a Sikh in a turban. A little like Moondog in a sense that way. I had had a costume on roller skates very la, very very Venice. Skating up and down Venice and playing electric guitar with a pig nose amp that that went around his shoulder and a guitar that looked like Eddie Van Halen's electric guitar. And to this day he is 40 years later, he is still roller skating up and down Venice Boardwalk and you can see him. And he has a new career by the way of he's still busking. But he has found a more lucrative way to do it. He will often follow bands on tour with their permission. Some artists get permission, others don't. But he will often follow the, what do you want to call them? The kind of offspring of the Grateful Dead. Grateful Dead don't exist as such, but you know, their members or you know, others who continue the Dead tradition. And there are tailgate scenes where people park and you know, it's a flea market and you can often find a musician like Harry Perry and others playing at these kind of tailgates events in front of concerts. You know, I see that at concerts all the time nowadays.

[Bradley Morgan]

So you had mentioned earlier that a lot of modern day buskers will use QR codes or social media to promote themselves. What other ways are newer and modern buskers advancing that tradition these days that wasn't available before?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, as I say, you know, those are the ways. Hey, on Facebook, you know, not only your own site but, but there's a busking music site, several busking sites actually on several busking groups on Facebook and on Instagram where you can. And there are community sites. Hey, I'll be busking at, down at the corner of Palm Canyon and Tahquitz in pala Springs at 1 o' clock and people come down, they have followings. Now the people on Maxwell street didn't really have that. They had a population rolling out of the blues bars at 5am or waking up early on a Sunday morning and wanting to go and buy, sell and trade. But yeah, nowadays I would say that social media, perhaps email lists and just the tradition of being at the same place at the same time. Hey, I, I'll. I'm going to go, I'm going to go to 3rd Street Prominade in Santa Monica and, and do some shopping and maybe that street singer will be there. And when you get there, there have always been open guitar cases for buskers. But as I say now, now busker sells CDs, they sell posters, they sell memorabilia, they sell T shirts and there are QR codes, there are Venmo and pen, pen pal codes. So it's a very, it's become a very high tech, low tech, but high tech means of performing music.

[Bradley Morgan]

Are there unique challenges with that? Because I, I think about, when I think about the traditional pipeline of street performer to signed artist, you know, signed recording artists. Are there certain challenges that exist now in that infrastructure? You know, when I think about streaming media or that there's fewer outlets for artists to really rise above, are you finding that there are hindrances with that?

[Kerry Baker]

I couldn't really say, you know, I mean there's still a lot of things that make busking a Challenge weather. You know, Don Flemings used to busk in 103 degree sun in, in Phoenix. So there's no getting around factors like that. But it certainly has become more of a, something you can call a profession in the, in the 21st century as a result of some of the ways that I mentioned of getting your message across and the repetition of being in one place at one time.

[Bradley Morgan]

I hope the answer to this question isn't as obvious as it sounds. And I'm asking because of the work that organizations like Playing for Change does. But what can people do to support buskers other than tipping them or buying the music when they see them in public? How can just the general audience help elevate artists in this way?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, I mean, you know, certainly the guy who wins my, my prize for all time altruism to a busker is Philip Glass taking Moondog in as a, as a tenant, as, as a house guest for weeks or months. And I'm not suggesting that people do that to a busker. They probably have a home, but give them some respect. I mean, you can certainly walk by them. You may not be interested in music, you may not have the time of day. That's all fine, but maybe if you do have the time of day and if a busker sounds interesting, stay a few songs and don't just give a quarter. Maybe give a five dollar bill or ten or a twenty, you know, and then if you don't have change, as I say, they take pen pal and Venmo or QR codes. It's easy to support busking, but I think that really what they ask is dignity. If you can buy a cd, if they have a T shirt, you know, that'll go a long way toward helping them pay their rent. And if you do happen to be an A R scout and I, my book is full of A and R scouts who found musicians while busking. As I mentioned, Ted Hawkins discovered by Geffen Records, David Peel discovered by Electra Records, and list goes on. And you know, if you're in a position to help them like that, that would be beyond Magnanimous. That would be historic. That, that would be an angle that, you know, certainly publicists were able to use the angle of Ted Hawkins being discovered on the street and yet signed to Geffen Records, which was hot with Guns N Roses and so many other bands for that matter. Fantastic. Negrito was a, a guy who was already on Indiscope Records, a, a big pop label when he didn't sell any records and got a from the Roster and ended up back in Oakland, California, his native town as a pot farmer. But, but by the way, finding purpose, just personal purpose in busking. He went out there just to have a way of staying in practice and he discovered that he wasn't this R B singer on, on Interscope Records. He was, he was a new artist, folk blues and he gave himself a new name, Fantastic Negrito. He went on to win the Tiny Desk concert in a competition at npr which is huge. And went on to make several records and has now won Grammys Blues Music Awards, Americana Awards. So it's a middle aged success busking at middle age after you've already had your shot at the major labels. So he's one of my favorite stories in the book for that reason.

[Bradley Morgan]

Who are some of your favorite buskers and why?

[Kerry Baker]

Well, I'll always have the soft spot for Blinder Vella Gray and the Violin Femmes. Ted Hawkins was really the third in my trifecta along with Maxwell street and the Violin Femmes. Moving to Los Angeles, I'm not, not ever realizing that there'd be a sole blues singer on Venice Boardwalk. I went to Venice Boardwalk just to feast my eyes on the beach and the sand and the sun and the babes and the whole scene of being there. When all of a sudden I hear a blues singer, I'm like oh, so I mean he was certainly one of them. I lived for a while in Los Angeles not far from Lucinda Williams without ever realizing that she got her start start busking. So she's certainly one of them. Elvis Costello already an album on Stiff Records, but he got his American contract, was heard by an American A R director by busking outside the. The European CBS convention and, and an American A and R person heard him. So I, I love stuff like that. I don't know whether he was pulling my leg or not, but Mojo Nixum who was kind of a friend or at least a, an acquaintance of mine for, for, for quite some years and, and lo and behold he passed away a couple of years ago. But he went out to the London tube. He's from Virginia and spent some time in, in San Diego but went to the London tube to, to join the Clash. He said in, in. In the mid-70s. Again I don't know whether he was pulling my leg or not. Mojo often, you know, was a comedian but, and he never did join the Clash but he was able to form his whole musical sound which was rambunctious and hey you and his music grabs you by the collar and I think that May have been something that he got in busking for Madeline Peyroux, a jazz singer who had a bohemian mother who took her to France and said, hey, get out there and sink and swim as a busker. And she did. And she met some existing buskers who were cronies of Bob Dylan out there. She got a contract as a jazz singer, and she plays on the. On the, you know, nightclub circuit these days. But the thing about her is that during the pandemic, when nobody could go to concerts, she made a point of getting out on the streets of New York. You know, the tube, the parks, just. Just out on the street in front of her house, just to connect with people at a time that nobody was connecting for so long during the quarantine.

[Bradley Morgan]

So to close things out for those who are just discovering the history and artistry behind busking, what musicians would you recommend for new listeners?

[Kerry Baker]

The ones that are busking today, you mean, I would say, or just.

[Bradley Morgan]

No, I mean, not just busking today, but just, you know, for example, of all the artists that you profiled in your book that, you know, if you're. If you're new to the history of busking, where would you recommend someone? Begin with.

[Kerry Baker]

I might start with Reverend Gary Davis or Blind Lemon Jefferson on the blue side. Or see if you can find that Blindervilla Gray record. It is busking. Going into the studio, and you can just about hear the buses passing by, even though it was a studio in the south suburbs of Chicago. I would recommend oh, Bongo Joe, who we didn't talk about, but he was a. He banged on an oil drum and. And sang Blue booze and whatever you want to call it, out on the streets of. Of San Antonio. And his album on our Hooly Records is. Is, you know, has that. That spirit of busking. Made in a recording studio? Actually, no, made out on the street. And. And. And for that matter, I'm trying to think of other records that were actually made in the street there. There was a busker who won a Grammy Award in 1967. In fact, there were two buskers nominated. But in the folk category of the Grammys in 1967, a singer we haven't spoken about named Cortilia Clark, who sang on the streets of downtown Nashville in front of the F.W. woolworth Building, which had some significance in the late 60s as a civil rights. Kind of the flashpoint of a civil rights riot. His record was made right out on the streets of downtown Nashville. You can actually hear the honking cars. You can hear the passersby. To me, Cortelia Clark, that record is, you know, the pure busking experience. If you can find it, if you can even find it on Spotify or YouTube, by all means, listen to it.

[Bradley Morgan]

Carrie, thank you so much for speaking with me today. Your book was a fascinating exploration of a truly populist tradition, and it was just incredible to read about all of these. All of these artists you profile.

[Kerry Baker]

Well, thank you very much for having me.

[Bradley Morgan]

My name is Bradley Morgan, and you've been listening to new books and music with my guest, Carrie Baker. Their latest book is down on the Adventures in Busking and Street Music and is published by Jawbone Press.