Podcast Summary: "Out of Bounds: From Broken NBA Dreams to Redemption"

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Paul Knepper
Guests: Chris Washburn and Ron Chepesiuk
Date: February 9, 2026
Book Discussed: Out of Bounds: From Broken NBA Dreams to Redemption (WildBlue Press, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode, host Paul Knepper interviews former NBA player Chris Washburn and prolific author Ron Chepesiuk about their new book Out of Bounds: From Broken NBA Dreams to Redemption. The discussion dives deep into Washburn’s rise as a basketball phenom, his struggles with addiction, the infamous 1986 NBA Draft, his dramatic fall, and his long journey to redemption. Both guests provide candid perspectives on the highs and lows of Chris's life, the prevalence of drugs in 1980s basketball, and the lessons learned for future generations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Shocking Beginnings: The First Experience with Crack (02:25–04:10)

• Dramatic Choice of Opening Scene: Ron explains starting the book with Chris’s first time doing crack—an untold story involving Len Bias—to grab readers and set the tone.
  • Ron Chepesiuk (02:25): "You want to start off dramatically and I looked at Chris's life and there was no more dramatic scene than that."
• Chris on Peer Influence: Chris describes succumbing to peer pressure from someone he respected and idolized (Len Bias), leading to a pivotal moment that altered his life trajectory.
  • Chris Washburn (03:18): "I just wanted to be on that level... I tried something I never tried before... It was just a learning lesson for me, hopefully for the next generation."

2. Early Life & Adoption (04:24–05:39)

• Upbringing & Family: Chris reflects on his childhood as an adopted, only child, finding love and opportunity in his adoptive home, but missing the camaraderie of siblings.
  • Chris Washburn (04:24): "I came to a family that was wanting a child... they put me in basketball camps, summer camps, things like that my actual biological mother couldn't do."

3. Basketball as Destiny, Not Passion (05:43–06:51; 39:54–42:14)

• Early Engagement in Sports: Chris's natural size led him into basketball, although he initially preferred football.
• Talent vs. Love for the Game: Paul presses on whether Chris truly loved basketball or if it was more circumstantial.
  • Chris Washburn (40:30): "No, didn't love basketball. That's why it was so easy to give it up. I think I liked what basketball brought as far as the fame, the fortune... But basketball per se itself, never just really a basketball friend."

4. Pressures, Expectations, and a Lack of Support (07:44–09:48)

• Growing Up Fast: Ron notes that Chris’s physical advantages led adults to expect more from him, exacerbating pressures.
  • Ron Chepesiuk (07:44): "He was talented... I think he was a little bit spoiled... I think that all of that made it sort of tough when he went to college and was on his own."
• Absence of Role Models or Guidance: Chris lacked mentorship or examples, especially upon reaching the NBA.
  • Chris Washburn (11:57): "I didn't have any other NBA players from this city... too much pride to admit I didn't know something."

5. College Recruitment & Selecting NC State (09:54–11:38)

• Chance Decision: Chris candidly explains he picked NC State simply because they walked through his door first.
  • Chris Washburn (09:54): "It was just that at that time, I told my mom, whoever comes through this door next is the school I'm signed with."

6. The Money, The NBA, and the Crash (13:13–14:02)

• Sudden Wealth: Chris received a $3 million contract at age 20 but was already developing a drug habit.
  • Ron Chepesiuk (13:29): "The kid is barely... not out of his teens yet, and he has all this money and he's got a growing drug habit. What do you think's going to happen?"

7. The NBA: Fun Turns to Isolation (14:02–17:15)

• Contrast Between College & Pro: Basketball at NC State was fun, but in the NBA, Chris felt isolated amid older teammates and a lack of structured support.
  • Chris Washburn (14:02): "That was the last time I actually played basketball for fun... Once you go pro, these guys... already had families."
• Lack of Guardrails: NBA teams in the 80s didn’t offer the personal support systems seen in modern franchises.

8. Influence of Other Players & Missed Opportunities for Mentorship (17:15–19:55)

• Seeking Guidance Too Late: He recalls Moses Malone extending advice about professionalism and lifestyle, but by then, his drug use had taken hold.
  • Chris Washburn (18:33): "If [Moses] might have been in Golden State and caught me then... maybe could pull back because I'm not addicted at this point in time."

9. Addiction’s Relentless Grip (22:25–27:04)

• Progression of Drug Use: Chris explains moving from crack to snorting cocaine, tying drug use to emotional lows and career pressures.

  • Chris Washburn (22:55): "What broke me from that was I had to go do a speech... I've been up all night snorting cocaine... my nose was running... so at that point I was like, I can't do it like this."

• Symbolism of Draft Day: Chris was high during his NBA draft and never truly experienced its joy.

  • Chris Washburn (27:04): "I was sitting in the draft high, and all I was thinking about was getting out of there to go get high again. I never got to enjoy that."

10. The 1986 “Drug Draft” and the Tragedy of Len Bias (27:35–30:28)

• Wider Context: Both Ron and Chris discuss how several drafted players were battling addiction; the climate made disaster likely.
  • Ron Chepesiuk (27:38): "Chris wasn't the only one high. Several players were high..."
• Impact of Len Bias’s Death: Chris recalls learning of Len Bias’s death and how it re-triggered his own drug use.
  • Chris Washburn (28:52): "Someone came up to me and asked me had I heard about Lynn... that's a bad thing, turned it on the back and then showed 'Len Bias dead of an overdose.'"

11. Genetics, Addiction, and Redemption (33:42–35:46)

• Family History of Addiction: Chris ties his struggles to genetic predispositions, explaining addiction spanned both his biological and adoptive families.
  • Chris Washburn (33:42): "...my biological brother, a half brother... all had a cocaine problem. We all had a crack addiction, never knowing each other until, you know, I put a song together 50 years later."

12. Recovery and Reinvention (32:08–33:38; 36:26–39:31)

• Turning Points: Chris quit drugs not through programs, but a personal resolution—after his father's death, taking responsibility for his mother.

  • Ron Chepesiuk (32:08): "He just quit because his father died and his mother needed him."
  • Chris Washburn (36:26): "But I'm still here...every day that I'm still here...I smile, you know what I'm saying? Because every bad day I had on cocaine beats any good day because I can still wake up the next day..."

• Peer Outreach: Chris now mentors others still struggling.

  • Chris Washburn (38:10): "I still try to keep a blessing and a word with Faith behind him... all these guys can still get in touch with me..."

13. Fatherhood and Family Redemption (42:14–45:06)

• Healing Past Mistakes: Chris speaks about mending relationships with his biological children and a powerful story of his stepdaughter proudly taking his surname.
  • Chris Washburn (42:23): "Still to this day, I'm still mending fences and building back bridges with my own... our daughter's 25, has her own child and... changing her last name, asking if I would adopt her..."

14. New Life and Giving Back (45:22–46:24)

• Current Ventures: Chris has started a speakers’ bureau, a local cart service, breeds dogs, and stays active to maintain his positive trajectory.
  • Chris Washburn (45:22): "...I have a little small speakers company... also have a little cart service... I breed dogs... I have to always keep myself involved in something because again, the idle mind never know what it might bring back up."

15. The Book as a Tool for Hope (46:31–47:34)

• Ron’s Reflections: Ron expresses pride in Chris's transformation and the book’s power as a guide for others.
  • Ron Chepesiuk (46:31): "I'm just amazed. And he's a role model because the way he recovered... I hope a lot of basketball players read it too."
• Recognition: The book was runner-up for sports book of the year.
  • Chris Washburn (47:18): "...it's also a guide on how to stay straight, you know, and just enjoy life."

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Book’s Opening:
  Ron Chepesiuk (02:25): "It was a turning point in his life... his life changed forever after that."

• On Peer Pressure & First Use:
  Chris Washburn (03:18): "A lot of times people get things from people that they know or people that they idolize... hopefully for the next generation... they don't have to go down that path."

• On the NBA Draft Day:
  Chris Washburn (27:04): "I was sitting in the draft high... I never got to enjoy that... holding a jersey, I did all that, but don't remember because I was high."

• On Redemption:
  Chris Washburn (36:26): "Every day that I'm still here after all the stuff I went through for 15 years... I smile, you know what I'm saying?... every bad day beats any good day I had on cocaine."

• On Loving Basketball (or not):
  Chris Washburn (40:30): "No, didn't love basketball. That's why it was so easy to give it up. I think I liked what basketball brought as far as the fame, the fortune... but basketball per se itself, never just really a basketball friend."

• On Quitting Addiction:
  Ron Chepesiuk (32:08): "He just quit because his father died and his mother needed him..." Chris Washburn (33:42): "With an addiction, doesn't matter what drug it is... not knowing early on was the problem..."

• On Mentoring Other Struggling Players:
  Chris Washburn (38:10): "I'm one of those guys... regardless, I can't turn my back on you because, I know how it is when folks... not meaningly turn their back on you, but they turn their back..."

• On Stepdaughter’s Name Change:
  Chris Washburn (42:23): "...her daughter changed her last name, asking if I would adopt her... Because I had proven to her that I was someone that you could count on and depend on."

Key Timestamps

• 02:25 – Opening scene: crack with Len Bias
• 04:24 – Chris discusses childhood/adoption
• 07:44 – Ron on expectations and growing up fast
• 09:54 – Choosing NC State
• 13:13 – Chris’s NBA Draft & money
• 14:02 – Fun in college vs. isolation in NBA
• 18:33 – Moses Malone’s mentorship attempt
• 22:55 – Escalation of drug use
• 27:04 – Chris was high at the NBA Draft
• 28:52 – Len Bias’s death
• 33:42 – Addiction gene & family history
• 36:26 – Chris on surviving and redemption
• 38:10 – Chris mentoring others
• 40:30 – Did Chris love basketball?
• 42:23 – Impact of fatherhood & stepdaughter’s adoption
• 45:22 – Chris’s post-basketball life
• 46:31 – Ron on book’s legacy

Tone & Language

Throughout, the conversation is candid, heartfelt, and occasionally laced with humor and hope. Chris’s honesty is striking, as he holds nothing back about his missteps or his long, ongoing journey toward health and meaning. Ron provides a supportive, journalistic perspective but frequently highlights the inspirational value of Chris's redemption.

Conclusion

This episode is a profound exploration of talent, vulnerability, social context, and human redemption. Washburn’s story, as recounted both in the book and this podcast, serves as a cautionary tale but also, ultimately, as a message of hope and possibility for anyone facing adversity—or supporting those who do.