Episode Overview
This episode of New Books Network features an insightful conversation between the host and Daisy Fancourt, author of Art Cure: The Science of How the Arts Save Lives (Cornerstone Press, 2026). The discussion explores the relationship between arts engagement and health, weaving together Fancourt's research expertise, real-world examples, and evidence-based recommendations for individuals and policymakers. Together, they tackle both the promises and limitations of the arts in health, examining how creative practices impact us at psychological, biological, and societal levels.
Defining Arts and Culture
[03:15–04:27]
- Fancourt explains that arts engagement goes well beyond traditional perceptions:
- Includes not just passive observation (e.g., viewing art, going to the theater) but also active participation: performing arts, visual arts, literary arts, circus, culinary, and horticultural arts.
- The core is practices pursued for beauty, ideas, or emotional expression, all involving “multi-sensory stimulation, creativity, imagination.”
- Quote:
“Arts engagement is about creative practices that are primarily carried out for their beauty, ideas, or emotional expression... everything from engaging in or attending performing arts, visual arts, literary arts, and also things like circus arts, culinary arts, horticultural arts.”
— Daisy Fancourt [03:52]
- Quote:
The Biological Basis of Arts and Wellbeing
[04:27–07:38]
- Fancourt emphasizes the biological underpinnings of why arts make us feel happy or relaxed.
- Scientific grounding in psychoneuroimmunology: interactions between psychological experiences and biological processes.
- Arts activate reward and pleasure networks in the brain, notably releasing dopamine, especially during moments of tension and resolution in artistic experiences.
- Engagement reduces stress responses: lowers heart rate, blood pressure, cortisol, and even inflammation.
- These biological correlates help explain the intuitive benefits people feel from the arts.
- Quote:
“Arts engagement activates reward and pleasure networks in the brain... But at the same time, we can also be experiencing reductions in our stress response systems in our body... even reductions in levels of inflammation within the immune system.”
— Daisy Fancourt [06:32]
Navigating Evidence, Overclaiming, and Limitations
[07:38–09:39]
- Fancourt is careful to distinguish robust findings from hype.
- Not all popular claims stand up to scrutiny—the “Mozart effect” (music increasing children’s IQ) is debunked.
- Some claims, such as music altering cancer cells in petri dishes, are misleading or potentially harmful.
- Science supports the arts’ role in supporting language and brain architecture in early years, but not magic-bullet effects for intelligence or disease.
- Quote:
“We’ve got to be really clear about when things are not scientific. Petri dish cells don’t have ears, so they can’t even hear the music.”
— Daisy Fancourt [09:23]
The Added Value of Arts vs. Exercise
[09:39–11:42]
- Dance exemplifies how arts can surpass purely physical activity in health benefits:
- Clinical trials show dance classes often yield bigger improvements in mental health and motivation than standard exercise.
- The unique combination of physical exertion, creativity, and emotional expression in dance boosts adherence and well-being.
- Listening to music while exercising can also enhance mood and motivation.
- Quote:
“There have been studies that have demonstrated that dance can not only support physical outcomes, but also have mental health benefits that might go beyond what we can get just from exercise alone.”
— Daisy Fancourt [10:33]
Arts in Healthcare Environments
[11:42–14:26]
- Fancourt’s work in the NHS and research detail the tangible benefits of arts in hospital settings:
- Music’s slow beats can synchronize with physiology, reducing anxiety, heart rate, and blood pressure.
- Clinical trials show that music before surgery can be more effective than medication in reducing anxiety and sedative needs.
- Use of arts humanizes care, with no side effects and lower costs.
- Quote:
“Some of the direct head-to-head trials that have compared listening to music with taking anti-anxiety medications to try and combat anxiety prior to surgery have shown that music is more effective.”
— Daisy Fancourt [13:51] - Fancourt highlights the ethical implications: not offering arts-based interventions could be a missed opportunity for patient care.
The Question of Longevity
[14:26–18:12]
- Multiple epidemiological studies suggest people who regularly engage in the arts live longer.
- These studies control for various confounders, but can’t offer causal proof due to methodological limits (e.g., impossible to randomize people to lifetime arts engagement).
- Emerging evidence links arts participation to slower biological aging: younger brain age, improved epigenetic and physiological indices.
- Population-level, not necessarily individual predictions.
- Quote:
“If art were a drug, we would all be taking it every day… on average we see that people who engage live for longer.”
— Daisy Fancourt [21:15 / 17:57]
The Arts as Tools for Social Transformation
[18:12–20:28]
- The arts support not just individual, but societal health:
- Storytelling through media (radio, TV) can drive positive behavioral change (e.g., East Los High used narrative to address health inequalities among Latinx adolescents).
- Arts support public health messaging and challenge social norms.
- Not all programs yield success—Fancourt discusses El Sistema in Venezuela as an example of overblown claims and critical lessons learned.
- Quote:
“The arts can be a really interesting way of helping to change behaviours that are related to social determinants of health… but [they] don’t solve poverty, for example.”
— Daisy Fancourt [19:31]
Barriers to Wider Arts Engagement
[20:28–22:47]
- Despite the evidence, arts engagement remains strikingly low:
- Recent US study: only 5% of adults did any arts activity “yesterday.”
- Arts participation lags behind other health behaviors like exercise and diet.
- Causes:
- Lack of awareness about the benefits (compared to public health campaigns for diet/exercise).
- Structural issues: arts defunded in schools, economic precarity for artists, venue closures, limited access in many communities.
- Quote:
“If art were a drug, we would all be taking it every day. So it’s funny that actually arts engagement levels are really quite as low as they are.”
— Daisy Fancourt [21:15]
Recommendations: What Needs to Change?
[22:47–24:15]
- To foster arts participation, Fancourt offers solutions at both individual and societal levels:
- Individuals: Use behavioral science to identify and address personal barriers (psychological or physical) to arts engagement.
- Society:
- Integrate arts meaningfully into school curricula.
- Protect and prioritize arts funding—beyond utilitarian health aims, the intrinsic pleasure and social value matter too.
- View arts funding as an upstream driver of public health and healthcare utilization.
Looking Ahead: Research and Policy
[24:15–26:00]
- Fancourt outlines her ongoing and future research:
- Large-scale global epidemiological studies (Wellcome Trust funding) to unpack links between arts engagement and health across 52 countries, including biological mechanisms (epigenetics, metabolomics).
- Applied research on social prescribing and tracking arts-based interventions in healthcare records.
- Policy work with the World Health Organization and UNESCO to embed arts within health strategies and systems.
Memorable Quotes and Moments
- On choosing a path:
“I loved arts and science growing up and couldn’t really pick between them… I ended up with this amazing job which was working in the NHS designing arts programs within hospitals … I got to see firsthand every day the impact that the arts had in clinical settings.”
— Daisy Fancourt [02:32] - On overclaiming:
“There are some things that have become kind of common knowledge, even though they’re not technically accurate… playing music at petri dishes can affect cancer cells… Petri dish cells don’t have ears.”
— Daisy Fancourt [09:23] - On what needs to change:
“Are we actually properly integrating [the arts] into curriculars so that all children have opportunities to engage? … Even if [people] are doing it just for the pure joy and pleasure of it, it can still be having health benefits.”
— Daisy Fancourt [23:10] - On the promise of research:
“We’ve recently received a seven-year grant from the Wellcome Trust that is allowing us to look globally in 52 countries at how arts engagement relates to population health outcomes...”
— Daisy Fancourt [25:11]
Timestamps of Key Segments
- Defining Arts and Culture: 03:15–04:27
- Biological Mechanisms: 04:27–07:38
- Debunking Myths and Limits: 07:38–09:39
- Arts vs. Exercise (Dance): 09:39–11:42
- Arts in Hospital Settings: 11:42–14:26
- Arts and Longevity: 14:26–18:12
- Arts for Social Change: 18:12–20:28
- Barriers to Participation: 20:28–22:47
- Policy and Individual Recommendations: 22:47–24:15
- Looking Ahead—Research & Policy: 24:15–26:00
Episode Takeaway
Daisy Fancourt’s “Art Cure” bridges science and creativity to show how the arts tangibly benefit our brains, bodies, and societies—while urging us to challenge structural barriers and advocate for broader participation and support. With careful attention to scientific nuance, Fancourt delivers a compelling case for integrating the arts deeply into lives, healthcare, and community policy.