Podcast Summary
New Books Network
Episode: Dana A. Williams, "Toni at Random: The Iconic Writer's Legendary Editorship" (Amistad, 2025)
Host: Dr. Nakazi Oates
Guest: Dr. Dana A. Williams
Date: March 10, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode of New Books in African American Studies features Dr. Dana A. Williams, Dean of the Graduate School and Professor of African American Literature at Howard University, in conversation with host Dr. Nakazi Oates. Dr. Williams discusses her new book, Toni at Random: The Iconic Writer's Legendary Editorship (Amistad, 2025), which chronicles Toni Morrison’s work as an editor at Random House, her trailblazing impact on Black literature, and the complexities of the publishing world. The discussion delves deeply into Morrison's editorial philosophy, her relationships with authors, the challenges of advocating for Black voices in mainstream publishing, and Williams’s own scholarly journey.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Writing and Publishing Toni at Random
- Long Gestation of the Book:
- Dr. Williams spent over 20 years working on the project, describing it as a "labor of love." [01:13]
- She struggled to balance what to include given publishing constraints and the richness of the material:
"I was keenly aware that I had limits that I had to stay within... So it was tough trying to figure out, how to manage what was just a treasure trove." [01:42]
- Challenges of Writing for a Trade Audience:
- Transitioning from academic to trade writing, Williams faced significant self-doubt about producing a commercial, accessible book. Her solution was to lean on her community for feedback and support:
"I said, I got really smart friends. Even if I'm not that smart myself. I got smart enough friends that they're not gonna have me out in these streets looking bad." [07:46]
- Transitioning from academic to trade writing, Williams faced significant self-doubt about producing a commercial, accessible book. Her solution was to lean on her community for feedback and support:
- Pride and Community:
- Williams is proud the book was produced at Howard University, emphasizing the institution’s legacy despite under-resourcing. Her achievements are deeply tied to familial and institutional pride:
"It was really important to me that this book came out with me as a faculty member from Howard, because I wanted to say absolutely, that it's possible at a place like this." [09:07]
- Williams is proud the book was produced at Howard University, emphasizing the institution’s legacy despite under-resourcing. Her achievements are deeply tied to familial and institutional pride:
Higher Education & Political Climate
- Teaching Under Political Upheaval:
- Williams reflects on teaching at Howard University during turbulent political times, particularly after Trump’s election as president. She describes Howard as both unique and perennially resilient:
"What most schools are seeing as point of crisis now have been like perpetual points of crisis for us… We've always punched above our weight." [03:29]
- She highlights the challenge of supporting students' enduring idealism amid sociopolitical threats:
"...you want to keep that idealism, and you want them to understand what Raleigh Shoinka calls Africa's greatest gift... her humanism." [04:20]
- Williams reflects on teaching at Howard University during turbulent political times, particularly after Trump’s election as president. She describes Howard as both unique and perennially resilient:
Toni Morrison's Entry & Career at Random House
- How Morrison Became an Editor:
- Morrison’s transition from academia to publishing began at LW Singer before she was selected to move to Manhattan for Random House, based on her intelligence, work ethic, and personality.
"She clearly communicated an outsized intelligence and an awareness of what was going on. And a commitment to doing exemplary work..." [12:32]
- Morrison’s transition from academia to publishing began at LW Singer before she was selected to move to Manhattan for Random House, based on her intelligence, work ethic, and personality.
- Editorial Style & Random House Structure:
- Random House’s process relied on pitching to the editor-in-chief rather than editorial committees. Williams argues this suited Morrison, allowing her to sidestep group skepticism that often excluded Black voices:
"...the difference between going to one person and pitching and convincing them... versus pitching to eight or nine people... when you're the only person who looks like you." [14:53]
- Williams notes that this direct pipeline likely kept Morrison from being "tremendously frustrated" and contributed to her longevity in the industry. [16:42]
- Random House’s process relied on pitching to the editor-in-chief rather than editorial committees. Williams argues this suited Morrison, allowing her to sidestep group skepticism that often excluded Black voices:
Key Editorial Projects and Conflicts
- First Editorial Project – Contemporary African Literature:
- Motivated by her experience in textbooks and personal interest, Morrison chose this anthology as her debut, leveraging library and university markets and intersecting with rising interest in African independence and Black Studies. [17:36]
- Navigating Author-Editor Conflicts:
- Morrison handled tense disagreements about marketing and cover art, notably with Barbara Chase-Riboud, negotiating between her editorial vision and author’s wishes:
"Morrison's response is, you sent me 30 thick pictures. Like, what was I supposed to do with them if I wasn't supposed to put it on the cover?" [22:21]
- Morrison handled tense disagreements about marketing and cover art, notably with Barbara Chase-Riboud, negotiating between her editorial vision and author’s wishes:
- The Role of an Editor:
- Williams describes editors as engaging in complex emotional labor, mediating between authors and the publishing apparatus:
"...editors have to deal with all of these personalities and then try to produce the best book possible, because that's ultimately what everybody wants." [24:24]
- Williams describes editors as engaging in complex emotional labor, mediating between authors and the publishing apparatus:
Collaboration and Legacy with Other Writers
- Toni Cade Bambara:
- Morrison brought Bambara to Random House, assembling her short stories into collections and later encouraging her to write a novel. Their collaborative dynamic was both professionally and personally close:
"She didn't stop for the halt and the lame. She just left you... if you couldn't keep up with the reading." [27:08]
"At any point that I was in interview with Toni Morrison... if I just needed to unlock her joy, I asked the Toni Cade Bambara question, and her countenance would change." [28:10]
- Morrison brought Bambara to Random House, assembling her short stories into collections and later encouraging her to write a novel. Their collaborative dynamic was both professionally and personally close:
- Editing Those Bones Are Not My Child:
- After Bambara’s death, Morrison completed editing her novel with "tremendous humility":
"...as custom with Toni Cade, she would have five different introductions... Morrison had to really try to feel and experience Bambara from the other side." [29:53]
- After Bambara’s death, Morrison completed editing her novel with "tremendous humility":
Morrison’s Editorial Mission
- Intended Audience:
- Morrison centered Black readers but welcomed a wide readership to sustain authors and the publishing program:
"...she intended for her assumed reader and her assumed narrator to be of color, to be a black person." [31:51]
- Morrison centered Black readers but welcomed a wide readership to sustain authors and the publishing program:
- Kinship & Tension among Black Editors:
- Relationships with other Black editors and platforms (e.g., Negro Digest, Black World) were marked by both solidarity and competition:
"For the most part, it was kinship, but then there were times... in competition with one another." [33:03]
- Notable moment with Hoyt Fuller and Carol Parks, revealing both the pressures and misunderstandings faced by Morrison in a white-dominated publishing environment.
- Relationships with other Black editors and platforms (e.g., Negro Digest, Black World) were marked by both solidarity and competition:
Archival Research & Methodology
- Archival Work:
- Williams’s research was rooted in Morrison’s Random House editorial files at Columbia, supplemented by her personal papers at Princeton. Finding key documents dispersed between archives reflected Morrison's own ongoing archiving practices:
"...sometimes I would find things on her personal papers that really should have been at Random House." [37:21]
- Williams’s research was rooted in Morrison’s Random House editorial files at Columbia, supplemented by her personal papers at Princeton. Finding key documents dispersed between archives reflected Morrison's own ongoing archiving practices:
- Scope of the Book:
- Williams wanted to focus on Morrison and fiction writers but expanded after Morrison guided her toward a broader examination of Morrison's entire editorship:
"She just kept talking about other stuff... until finally I said, you know what? I think this book has to be about your whole editorship." [38:52]
- Williams wanted to focus on Morrison and fiction writers but expanded after Morrison guided her toward a broader examination of Morrison's entire editorship:
Personal Anecdotes and Future Directions
- Host’s Encounter with Morrison:
- Dr. Oates shared a personal story about fact-checking Morrison's essay for The Nation and meeting her in person—a testament to Morrison’s towering presence and influence. [40:35]
- Williams’s Forthcoming Projects:
- Williams is near completion of ghostwriting Jeremiah Wright's autobiography, planning essays on African American literature as a field, and a study of small towns in the Delta, including her hometown, exploring the fragility of democracy and Black community resilience:
"I feel very strong. I got a real responsibility to do what I can in this, the time that I have." [45:11]
- Williams is near completion of ghostwriting Jeremiah Wright's autobiography, planning essays on African American literature as a field, and a study of small towns in the Delta, including her hometown, exploring the fragility of democracy and Black community resilience:
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On archival challenges:
"Sometimes I would find things on her personal papers that really should have been at Random House. And I'm like, ma’am, like, what happened here?" (Williams, 37:21)
- On the centrality of Black readers:
"If we were to take her at her word, she was definitely foremost interested in the assumed reader being black. But she clearly also had no reservation with, like, the more robust readership." (Williams, 31:51)
- On Morrison and Bambara’s friendship:
"Their correspondence was among some of my favorite... if I just needed to unlock her joy, I asked the Toni Cade Bambara question, and her countenance would change." (Williams, 28:10)
- On author-editor conflict:
"Morrison’s response is, you sent me 30 thick pictures. Like, what was I supposed to do with them if I wasn't supposed to put it on the cover?" (Williams, 22:21)
- On being rooted in community:
"In all things that I do, I seek to make those who love me and who have poured into me proud." (Williams, 10:24)
Important Timestamps
- [01:13] – Williams on the book’s long genesis
- [03:29] – Navigating higher education in politically intense times
- [07:46] – Overcoming self-doubt to write for a trade audience
- [12:32] – How Morrison landed at Random House
- [14:53] – Editorial structure at Random House and Morrison’s fit
- [17:36] – Morrison’s motivation for publishing Contemporary African Literature
- [22:21] – Barbara Chase-Riboud conflict over cover art
- [27:08] – Morrison’s editorial counsel to Toni Cade Bambara
- [29:53] – Editing Those Bones Are Not My Child after Bambara’s death
- [31:51] – Morrison’s focus on Black readers
- [33:03] – Kinship and competition with other Black editors
- [37:21] – Williams’s archival discoveries
- [38:52] – How the project’s scope changed after Morrison’s feedback
- [42:18] – Host’s personal encounter with Morrison
- [42:33] – Williams on current and future projects
Conclusion
This episode offers a rich, behind-the-scenes look at Toni Morrison’s transformative work as an editor, as well as Dr. Williams’s journey to illuminate Morrison’s editorial legacy. The conversation honors both Morrison’s meticulous, visionary approach and the invisible intellectual and emotional labor underpinning Black literary culture. It’s a must-listen (and read) for scholars, writers, and anyone invested in the history of American publishing and Black literature.