Podcast Summary: Danya Ruttenberg, "On Repentance and Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World"

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Renee Garfinkel
Guest: Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg
Date: October 4, 2025
Duration: [01:30–31:47] (content portion)

Overview

This episode features a conversation between host Renee Garfinkel and author Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg about Ruttenberg’s acclaimed book, On Repentance and Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World. The discussion delves deep into how ancient Jewish frameworks—particularly the teachings of Maimonides—can offer guidance for personal and collective healing in response to harm. The episode addresses why and how repentance, apology, and real repair must be central in relationships and institutions, and how these steps are distinct from forgiveness.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Why Write about Repentance Now?

• Context: Ruttenberg was inspired by the public’s response to the aftermath of the #MeToo movement, noticing inadequate apologies and rushed calls for forgiveness.
• Maimonides’s framework: Ruttenberg highlighted the need for a deeper, more structured process of repentance for harm doers, as opposed to superficial apologies.
  • "There was this framework that demanded work on the harm doer’s part instead of just forgiveness by anybody and everybody." (Danya Ruttenberg, 04:21)

2. Defining Repentance, Forgiveness, and Atonement

• Repentance: A restorative, introspective process (teshuva) aimed at returning to one’s best self by repairing harm and restoring integrity.
  • "Repentance, chuva in Hebrew, is about returning to where you should have been before you erred… It’s about coming back to who you should have been all along." (Ruttenberg, 05:35–06:15)
• Forgiveness: Separate path, strictly the prerogative of the person harmed.
  • Ruttenberg distinguishes between emotional (slicha) and transactional (mechila) forgiveness:
    • "Forgiveness is the victim business, and it's their choice. And you can heal without forgiving." (Ruttenberg, 08:00)
• Not Owed: Forgiveness cannot be demanded—harm doers are “not automagically owed” forgiveness.
  • “You’d never have to forgive your abuser, ever, ever, ever.” (Ruttenberg, 09:27)

3. The Power Dynamics of Forgiveness

• Ruttenberg connects cultural pressures for victims to forgive with power imbalances:
  • "Harm caused is so often about power. And conversations about forgiveness are often about power." (Ruttenberg, 09:45)

4. Admitting Harm—Why It’s Difficult

• Cognitive dissonance with self-perception makes admitting wrongdoing hard.
  • "We are the protagonist of our own stories… When we cause harm, there's a dissonance in the story.” (Ruttenberg, 11:18)
• Crossing that gap requires facing uncomfortable truths about oneself.

5. Five Steps of Repentance (Summarized)

• Based on Maimonides’s teachings as interpreted by Ruttenberg:

  1. Acknowledge the harm publicly. (13:01–13:31)
  2. Begin to change—address root causes. (13:56)
  3. Make amends as requested by the harmed party. (14:29–15:44)
  4. Offer an apology—only after the first three steps. (16:19)
  5. Demonstrate changed behavior in similar future situations. (implied throughout)
  • “If Louis CK were genuinely sincere, here’s what we would know to look for in terms of his steps… There are five steps.” (Ruttenberg, 03:40)

6. What Makes an Apology Sincere

• Ruttenberg rejects formulaic apologies; what matters is the depth and process underlying them.
  • “I am not one that is going to come and say if you say these words it’s sincere… The thing is to do the work all the way through.” (Ruttenberg, 18:17)
• Public acknowledgment invites accountability and community support for change.
  • “If you try to hide what you did, then it’s harder to change.” (Ruttenberg, 19:03)

7. Forgiveness—When (and Whether) to Offer It

• The harmed party’s readiness matters, and it’s not always appropriate or required.
  • “The harm doer…should not make their own recovery more important than the victim's safety.” (Ruttenberg, 20:30)
• The harmed party can heal and move forward without forgiving.

8. Context and Explaining Behavior

• Rationalizing harm (e.g., “I was hungry”) may or may not be relevant, depending on context.
  • “If I, the harm doer, have been doing my listening correctly, I can probably discern what context is going to be welcome… and what’s going to be feeling like an excuse.” (Ruttenberg, 24:33)

9. Organizational and Institutional Repentance

• Shared and Hierarchical Responsibility: All members, especially those with power, have obligations when an institution causes harm.
  • “Every organization is made up of many members… the more power a person has, the more obligation they have.” (Ruttenberg, 25:25)
• Organizations often default to avoiding accountability—sometimes even scapegoating or silencing victims.
  • “You have institutional betrayal piled on the original hurt.” (Ruttenberg, 27:13)
• Models for Change: Some institutions (e.g., the University of Michigan Medical Center) are making positive strides in accountability.

10. Repentance as a Spiritual Practice

• Ruttenberg regards the process itself as an ongoing spiritual discipline, woven into Jewish tradition yet universally useful.
  • “It’s an extraordinary muscle that you can work. And like any muscle, it gets stronger the more you work it.” (Ruttenberg, 28:23)
  • Repent “one day before your death… you should do this repentance work every single day.” (Ruttenberg, 29:08)

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “There was this framework that demanded work on the harm doer’s part instead of just forgiveness by anybody and everybody.” (Ruttenberg, 04:21)
• “Repentance...is about returning to yourself, to God if that’s a framework that works for you... doing everything in your power to repair what must be repaired.” (Ruttenberg, 05:38)
• “Forgiveness is the victim business, and it's their choice. And you can heal without forgiving.” (Ruttenberg, 08:00)
• “You’d never have to forgive your abuser, ever, ever, ever.” (Ruttenberg, 09:27)
• “We are the protagonist of our own stories… When we cause harm, there’s a dissonance in the story.” (Ruttenberg, 11:18)
• “The amends have to come from the harmed party...if you’re deciding for the harmed party what will fix it for them... you’re not honoring their agency.” (Ruttenberg, 14:22)
• “If you try to hide what you did, then it’s harder to change.” (Ruttenberg, 19:03)
• “If I, the harm doer, have been doing my listening correctly, I can probably discern what context is going to be welcome.” (Ruttenberg, 24:33)
• “Every organization is made up of many members… the more power a person has, the more obligation they have.” (Ruttenberg, 25:25)
• “It’s an extraordinary muscle that you can work. And like any muscle, it gets stronger the more you work it.” (Ruttenberg, 28:23)
• “I truly, with all of my heart, believe that the work of repentance is a gift.” (Ruttenberg, 30:01)

Suggested Timestamps for Reference

• [03:01] - Why focus on repentance and Maimonides in the current era?
• [05:23] - Defining repentance, forgiveness, and atonement.
• [09:35] - The power dynamics at play in forgiveness.
• [11:07] - Why it’s so hard to admit causing harm.
• [13:01] - Steps of making amends; why apology comes late in the process.
• [18:17] - Elements of a real, sincere apology.
• [20:04] - Forgiveness from the victim’s perspective.
• [21:47] - When context and backstory do or do not matter.
• [24:51] - Institutional obligations and failures.
• [28:23] - Repentance as a spiritual practice.
• [30:01] - Closing message: “repentance is a gift.”

Final Message

Ruttenberg urges that repentance, far from being punitive or shame-based, is a practice of love, connection, and integrity. Its true purpose is growth: for individuals, communities, and entire institutions. Real repair is not about instant absolution, but about honest work—a gift to ourselves and to one another.

For more from Rabbi Danya Ruttenberg:
Visit lifeisasacredtext.com
Book: On Repentance and Repair: Making Amends in an Unapologetic World (Beacon Press, 2022)