Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Caleb Zakarin
Guest: David M. Henkin, Professor of History at UC Berkeley
Book Discussed: Out of the Ballpark: How to Think about Baseball (Oxford UP, 2026)
Date: February 18, 2026

This episode features a deep dive into the cultural and historical significance of baseball, led by historian David M. Henkin. The conversation explores baseball's origins, its dual identity as both urban and pastoral, how it spread across the globe, its entanglement with American society, issues of labor and capital, the revolution of advanced statistics, and its transformation by media. Henkin encourages thinking about baseball not just as a sport, but as a portal into understanding broader themes in society—such as identity, partisanship, race, labor, and modernity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Personal Connections and Approach to Writing about Baseball

• Henkin’s Background & Motivation
  Henkin is a 19th-century American historian whose fascination with baseball goes back to his youth—a passion he had to “bracket” in order to write objectively about the sport's larger meaning and context.
• Taking Baseball Seriously
  • "To make sense of its place in culture, in history and politics and society, [I had to] try to divest myself of all the beliefs that I instinctively have about what makes baseball important and try to think about what might make baseball interesting and important if I didn't exactly have those beliefs." (02:19)

2. Baseball as Secular Religion and Ritual

• Ritual and Partisanship
  • Host notes: “I had initially described baseball as a sort of a secular religion for me...the ritual aspects of it, watching opening day, going through the motions at the ballpark, the seventh inning stretch and whatnot.” (05:26)
  • Henkin draws parallels between sports superstitions and religious practices, even referencing his own background as an observant Jew:
    • “The idea that what you wear on your head and how it's positioned has some kind of soteriological or cosmological significance seems as natural to me as any other bizarre belief.” (07:20)

3. Origins and Myths of Baseball

• Dispelling the Doubleday Myth
  • Henkin distinguishes between the origins of the game (adapted from English “rounders”) and the spectator sport (urban, American invention circa 1840s).
  • "The fabrication of the Abner Doubleday myth...was...to claim that baseball is authentically American...and...located it in a small village setting. Whereas really...the origin of baseball is...New York...Brooklyn was also a major ground zero for baseball as a spectator sport." (08:30–11:33)
• Pastoral vs. Urban Images
  • “Baseball as a 19th century sport really was urban. And...teams would represent neighborhoods, or they might represent an occupation, or they might represent a subculture.” (12:36)

4. Baseball’s International Diffusion

• Why Japan and Cuba?
  • “[Simple answers] about US empire, military occupation...are misleading.” (17:14)
  • Japanese colonialism spread baseball in East Asia; Cuba adopted baseball through commercial and cultural contact with the US—and played a crucial role spreading it through the Spanish-speaking Caribbean.
  • “If you look at the map of the Americas...if the place is Spanish speaking and does the place have coastline on the Caribbean?...the odds are baseball is quite popular there.” (17:14–22:07)
• Impact on MLB
  Host: “The MLB is all the better for it...the great non-American talent that just dominates the game now.” (22:07)

5. Baseball and Race: Jackie Robinson’s Legacy

• Integration and Broader American Change
  • “[Desegregation] was more important to America, period, than it was to baseball.” (23:50)
  • Henkin notes how Robinson’s breakthrough preceded major civil rights victories: “It’s before Brown vs. Board of Education...a very early moment on a timeline...of the success of the desegregation movement.” (23:50)
  • “Jackie Robinson, I would say, has been beatified...Every April you can't wear his number. No one can wear his number. And on April 15, everyone has to wear his number.” (27:31)

6. Labor, Capital, and the Players’ Association

• Labor Struggles Since the 19th Century
  • “From the moment that baseball is commercialized and professionalized...there has been a struggle [between labor and capital].” (28:59)
  • Henkin emphasizes the unique labor-capital dynamic in baseball—players’ irreplaceability vs. the need for teams/leagues for their skills to matter.
  • The rise of the MLBPA (Players Association) and union strength under Marvin Miller is a turning point.
    • “The baseball players union is a remarkably strong union compared to other North American sports. And the Marvin Miller era played a huge role in it.” (28:59–34:49)

7. Team vs. Individual Achievement; Statistical Nuances

• Baseball’s Difference from Basketball
  • “In basketball, every time a team is on offense...the [star] has an opportunity to score...in baseball, there are very few ways to score single handedly...” (35:24)
  • The huge schedule (162 games) shapes fandom—some fans see it as relaxing, others find every game high-stakes.
    • Host: “I don't have to get too emotionally invested in one game over another. It's very relaxing.” (36:16)
    • Henkin: “That’s your experience. I root for 162 games and every single game to me is an opportunity for exhilaration or crushing disappointment.” (36:41)

8. Media, Technology, and the Baseball Experience

• Mediated Fandom
  • Henkin recounts baseball’s long history of mediated experience—from newspapers and telegraph updates to radio, TV, and now digital/statcast data.
    • “There has always been remote attendance. There’s also always been delayed attendance.” (38:07)
  • The experience of live games is still shaped by screens and data—even in stadiums.
    • “You go to the ballpark, a lot of your access to the game really is through screen and asynchronous viewing.” (38:07)

9. Partisanship and Identity

• Rooting as Core Identity
  • Host reflects: “The first real partisan loyalty I ever had...was to the New York Mets, even though I didn't even grow up in New York.” (43:27)
  • Henkin: “It's easy to develop one around a popular spectator sport when you're a kid...With one colossal exception that actually bears much more resemblance to things in my life...and it happens to be a baseball team.” (44:20)

10. The Sabermetric (Statistical) Revolution

• Baseball’s Obsession with Stats
  • “Baseball has always...generated an obsession with granular statistics. So that's not new.” (48:57)
  • The real recent transformation is not just stats, but technological ability to measure and share detailed data (video capture, statcast).
    • “If there have been technological changes that have accelerated the so called sabermetric revolution, I think it’s actually those technologies rather than computational ones...in baseball, it’s distributed to fans as part of the entertainment package.” (48:57–53:11)

11. Globalization and New Icons: Shohei Ohtani

• The Global Pastime
  • Host: “Ohtani is arguably the best player today...there were more people in Japan watching the 2024 World Series than there were watching in America—which is remarkable.” (53:11)
  • Henkin: “Shohei Ohtani represents...Major League Baseball’s...vast international fandom...MLB has cultivated and is benefiting from vast international fandom and Shohei Otani has played a large role in that.” (54:59)
  • The book is “much more interested in...fans and...spectatorship than...what happens on the field...what’s important is not whether this guy pitches and hits or...broke a record...It’s happening around questions of race and gender and politics and entertainment and law.” (54:59)

12. Baseball, Politics, and the Meaning of Popular Culture

• Thinking About More Than Baseball
  • Host notes that baseball is “a portal to talk about basically everything,” from math and science to contemporary politics and labor. (60:19)
  • Henkin: “The book tries to point out ways in which the distinctive history...means you can think about everything while thinking about baseball. But it’s not making the claim that baseball is unique in that regard. It’s really an argument for the need to think about popular culture and mass consumption...as always being bound up with things that we think of as more serious.” (61:06)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Bracketing Fandom as a Historian

  • “To write about baseball in a way that would be useful for other people...required trying to take a big step back from my own...interest in baseball.” —David Henkin (02:19)

• On Baseball Rituals vs. Religious Rituals

  • “The idea that what you wear on your head and how it’s positioned has some kind of soteriological...significance seems as natural to me as any other bizarre belief.” —DH (07:20)

• On the Geographic Spread of Baseball

  • “If the place is Spanish speaking and...has coastline on the Caribbean...the odds are baseball is quite popular there.” —DH (20:56)

• On Jackie Robinson’s Legacy

  • “Jackie Robinson, I would say, has been beatified. He’s a saint like no other...his number has become both like a shrine and a relic...” —DH (27:31)

• On Media, Screens, and Attending Games

  • “You go to the ballpark, a lot of your access to the game really is through screen and asynchronous viewing.” —DH (38:07)

• On Baseball’s Universal Partisanship

  • “It’s easy to develop [identity] around a popular spectator sport when you’re a kid. And if you do it as a kid, it’s likely to have [staying power].” —DH (44:20)

• On the True Baseball Revolution: Tracking Tech

  • "If there have been technological changes that have accelerated the so called sabermetric revolution, I think it’s actually those [tracking] technologies rather than computational ones." —DH (52:24)

• On Baseball’s Modern Meaning

  • “So much of what makes baseball baseball is not...on the field. I mean, it’s in conversations like the one that you and I are having. It’s in memories that we have about its relationship to our life. It’s in metaphors that it generates for talking about other things.” —DH (54:59)

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Time | Segment | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------------| | 00:01 | Host intro; personal reflections on baseball | | 02:19 | Henkin’s background, fan-to-historian transition | | 05:26 | Baseball as ritual; secular religion; superstitions | | 08:30 | Debunking origins myths; Doubleday, urban roots | | 12:36 | Evolution of team association; global models | | 17:14 | How and why baseball spread to Japan & Cuba | | 23:50 | Jackie Robinson & the timeline of desegregation | | 28:59 | Labor vs. capital; MLBPA and Marvin Miller | | 35:24 | Teams, individuals, and narrative in baseball stats | | 38:07 | Media’s transformative effect on baseball fandom | | 44:20 | Partisan identity, childhood fanship | | 48:57 | Sabermetrics, video capture, & statistical analysis | | 53:11 | Shohei Ohtani, globalization, and sport’s future | | 60:19 | Baseball as lens for larger societal analysis | | 61:48 | Closing reflections; predictions for World Series |

Final Question: World Series Prediction

• Henkin’s prediction:
  “It would be a little silly not to bet against your hometown, your former hometown Dodgers, given their payroll. But...among long shots that might be pleasing to see win the World Series—how about the Seattle Mariners?” (62:00)

Takeaway

From sandlots to stadiums, local pastimes to global phenomena, superstitions to statistics, Out of the Ballpark and this conversation remind us that baseball remains both a mirror and a muse for thinking about history, culture, and how we belong—with as much meaning in the stands, the media booth, and the home, as on the diamond.