Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode: Debra Michals, "She's the Boss: The Rise of Women’s Entrepreneurship since World War II"

Host: Dr. Randa Melcher
Guest: Dr. Debra Michals
Date: September 25, 2025
Book: She's the Boss: The Rise of Women’s Entrepreneurship since World War II (Rutgers UP, 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode tackles the complex, evolving landscape of American women’s entrepreneurship from World War II to the present, through the lens of Debra Michals’s deeply-researched new book. The conversation explores social, political, and economic forces that spurred women to start businesses, the changing motivations and narratives around women business owners, and the barriers and breakthroughs that defined their journeys. Drawing on both sweeping history and intimate stories, the discussion connects women's entrepreneurship to broader societal transformations, the women's movement, race and class dynamics, landmark legal changes, and present-day obstacles.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Origins and Motivations for the Book

[02:42]

• Michals’s Background: Previously a business journalist; gravitated to women’s work and business history in academia.
• Motivation: “I don't know that I ever decided to write this book. I think this book told me I was going to write it...it seemed that the early business journalism training and the history training kind of intersected in this book.” (Michals, 03:23)
• Scope: It’s a social history, not just a business history. Michals wanted a book about “the role of business in both the lives of individual women, as well as its connection to other things going on in society.” (Michals, 04:37)

Pre–World War II Landscape

[05:54]

• Early American History: Women’s businesses were usually survival strategies—taverns, sewing, millinery.
• Rise of the “New Woman” (early 1900s): Businesses such as Maidenform, Elizabeth Arden, and Helena Rubinstein tie to suffrage and increased independence.
• The Great Depression: Stifles momentum—women focus more on survival, though some like Margaret Rudkin (Pepperidge Farm) persevere.

World War II and the Aftermath: A Pivotal Shift

[08:40]

• Transformation: WW2 recruits women into the workforce (e.g., “Rosie the Riveter”)—they begin seeing themselves as economic agents.
• Policy Response: After the war, the question becomes: what to do with all these working women? New York’s Jane Todd (first female Deputy Commerce Commissioner) launches women’s small business clinics, inspiring national programs.
• Grassroots Demand: Todd’s agency receives “750 phone calls a day from women all over the country asking how to start a business.” (Michals, 11:41)

Notable Quote

“If we get to get women out of jobs for returning soldiers, hey, let's put them into business...There’s this real connection between business and the home. If small business starts in the home, why can’t women do it?”
— Debra Michals [11:50]

Media and Public Response

[12:44]

• Media Coverage: Life magazine, The New York Times, and the classic film “Mildred Pierce” all spotlight women entrepreneurs.
• National Spread: “Nine states start to launch their own women's programs as well.” (Michals, 13:44)

The 1950s: Adaptation to ‘Redomestication’

[14:05]

• Shifting Narratives: As Cold War domestic ideals rise, women reframe business ownership as a means to be “good mothers” or supplement family incomes.
• Persistence: Women’s business clinics and entrepreneurial interest continue, recalibrated to new social norms.

Notable Quote

“They recalibrate how they talk about it, but that doesn’t change their interest in it.”
— Debra Michals [14:53]

• Free Enterprise vs Communism: Women are mobilized as consumers and small business owners, reinforcing U.S. values.

The 1960s: Social Shifts and Persistent Barriers

[17:34]

• Multiple Threads: Michals discusses the book’s lenses: societal change, government response, and women’s agency.
• Kennedy Era: Women demand New Frontier promises be extended to them—leads to the President’s Commission on the Status of Women.
• Workplace Obstacles: Inadequate child support and lack of national childcare spur women to entrepreneurship for flexibility and self-sufficiency.
• Civil Rights Context: Entrepreneurship becomes a tool for both economic survival and community activism, especially for women of color.

The 1970s: Feminism and Entrepreneurial Revolution

[25:23]

• Divergent Feminist Approaches:
  • Mainstream Feminists (e.g., Friedan): Push for equal access to the existing system—e.g., Equal Credit Act of 1974.
  • Radical/Lesbian Feminists: Create their own “counter institutions” (bookstores, health centers) as alternatives to patriarchal systems.
• Financial Obstacles: The 1974 Act covers mortgages and credit cards but crucially excludes business loans. True equality in business credit doesn’t come until the Women’s Business Ownership Act (1988).

Notable Quote

“All of those who are in the more liberal end...think we can use the system to fix it—capitalism can fix it. All we need is to get in.”
— Debra Michals [28:34]

The 1980s: From Utopia to Mainstream Rights Language

[29:46]

• Utopian Dreams vs. Capitalist Realities: Many collective feminist businesses struggle with sustainability.
• Mainstreaming the Language of Rights: Even women opposed to feminism adopt the idea that “I have a right to be a player in this economy.”
• Policy Developments: HR 5050—the Women’s Business Ownership Act—finally bans discrimination in business lending, promises access to federal contracts (though implementation lags).

The 1990s and 2000s: Institutionalization and Ongoing Challenges

[34:19]

• Women’s Networking Organizations: NAWBO and American Women’s Economic Development Corporation emerge as key advocates and facilitators.
• Legislative Wins and Shortfalls: HR 5050 sets a 5% benchmark for federal contracts, but in practice, this goal is rarely reached.

The Present: Achievements Amid Persistent Inequality

[37:05]

• Current Landscape: Women own 40% of all U.S. businesses, drive trillions in revenue.
• Enduring Barriers:
  • Glass Ceiling: “What the labor market would never do for women, entrepreneurship could.” (Michals, 37:20)
  • Venture Capital Gaps: White women get just 3% of VC, women of color just over 1%. Many rely on risky personal or payday loans.
  • Payday Loans: “If you are taking a payday loan...you can’t afford to fail.” (Michals, 40:41)
• Techno-Optimism Tempered: Cost of entry into online business now sky-high, not the great equalizer once imagined.

Concluding Thoughts and Future Directions

[41:17 & 42:51]

• Historian’s Caution: Michals hesitated to predict trends given the rapidly changing present (“my historian self gets very nervous when people say, what do you think all of this means?” [41:23]).
• Future Research: Two new projects in mind:
  • Representation of women entrepreneurs in film (“there’s a story to be told about trends among those businesses.” [43:26])
  • A dual biography: a woman entrepreneur and the institution she built as a “social problem solver in the 1960s.” [43:48]

Memorable Quotes (with Timestamps)

• “I don't know that I ever decided to write this book. I think this book told me I was going to write it.”
  — Debra Michals [02:47]

• “What the labor market would never do for women, entrepreneurship could.”
  — Debra Michals [37:17]

• “If we get to get women out of jobs for returning soldiers, hey, let’s put them into business...If small business starts in the home, why can’t women do it?”
  — Debra Michals [11:50]

• “They recalibrate how they talk about it, but that doesn't change their interest in it.”
  — Debra Michals [14:53]

• “All of those who are in the more liberal end...think we can use the system to fix it—capitalism can fix it.”
  — Debra Michals [28:34]

• “If you are taking a payday loan...you can't afford to fail. Because if you do, how are you ever going to pay it back?”
  — Debra Michals [40:41]

• "My historian self gets very nervous when people say, what do you think all of this means? I, I don't know."
  — Debra Michals [41:23]

Noteworthy Timestamps

• [02:42] — Michals introduces her academic and personal journey
• [05:54] — Pre-WWII women’s business ownership trends and patterns
• [08:40] — Explosive shift during WW2, Jane Todd’s organizing, postwar momentum
• [12:44] — Mainstream media and public embrace of women entrepreneurs
• [14:05] — 1950s reframing due to Cold War, redomestication
• [17:34] — 1960s: pent up demand, Kennedy era, women respond with entrepreneurship
• [25:23] — Feminism’s varied relationship with business, Equal Credit Act, radical counter-institutions
• [29:46] — Why utopian feminist businesses faded and how “rights” language endured
• [34:19] — Continuing legislative struggles, new organizations for women entrepreneurs
• [37:05] — Where women’s entrepreneurship stands today: achievements, setbacks, key statistics
• [41:17] — Michals on the challenge of drawing present-day conclusions
• [42:51] — Sneak peek at Michals’s forthcoming research projects

Tone and Atmosphere

The conversation is dynamic, insightful, and reflective—mixing scholarly precision, narrative examples, and personal passion. Michals’s tone blends optimism for women’s progress with clear-eyed acknowledgment of barriers and unfinished work, while the host’s questions keep the discussion rooted in the stories, policies, and cultural shifts that humanize this history.

Summary for New Listeners

For listeners new to the topic or unfamiliar with the book, this episode offers a rich, accessible primer to the rise of women’s entrepreneurship in the U.S. since World War II. Combining broad historical analysis and compelling anecdotes, Michals explains why women’s business ownership became both a necessity and a right, how its meaning has shifted with every social and political wave, and why, despite enormous gains, the struggle for equal access, funding, and recognition continues today.