Ellen Levitt, "Former Synagogues of the United States: Looking at Buildings That Once Housed Synagogues, Schools, and Other Jewish Institutions" (Resource Publications, 2026)

Summary

Podcast Summary
New Books Network
Episode: Ellen Levitt, "Former Synagogues of the United States: Looking at Buildings That Once Housed Synagogues, Schools, and Other Jewish Institutions"
Host: Schneer Zalman Neufeld
Guest: Ellen Levitt
Date: May 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode features Ellen Levitt, author of Former Synagogues of the United States, discussing her exploration of the histories and afterlives of buildings that once served as synagogues, Jewish schools, and other Jewish community centers across America. Levitt draws from her extensive photography and urban history background to document not just the structures themselves, but the cultural, demographic, and personal narratives embedded in these evolving spaces. The focus is on urban transformation, preservation, changing Jewish demographics, and the interplay between memory and built environment.

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Major Topics & Discussion Highlights

Personal & Professional Background (02:18–04:26)

• Levitt grew up in Brooklyn and was influenced by parents who loved photography and history; her mother was a photography buff, and her father a structural engineer with an eye for buildings.
• Her career in teaching social studies and her passion for urban history inspired her to combine photography, Judaism, and writing.
• "A lot of what I've done, I would not have done this project had it not been that I had parents who were interested in photography and history to some extent." (03:26, Ellen)

Why Synagogues Become Former Synagogues (05:15–08:17)

• Shifting demographics—such as migration to suburbs, congregational merges, community decline, or neighborhood change—are cited as key factors.
• Sometimes synagogues are repurposed happily (growing congregations moving to new buildings), but often closure is preceded by challenges like vandalism, mergers, or abandonment.
• Many buildings are reused as churches (especially Protestant), mosques, community centers, art galleries, or private homes.
• "A lot of what has happened to synagogue buildings has happened to church buildings, Catholic, Protestant churches. ... People move, the buildings become too old and decrepit, and something else happens to the building." (07:37, Ellen)

Judaica and Architectural Features: What Stays, What Leaves? (08:53–11:37)

• Stained glass windows usually remain (unless saved during major renovations), though they often decay.
• Memorial tablets can be left if difficult to move, but there's growing interest in photographing and cataloguing them.
• Other religious items—Torah scrolls, prayer books, cloths—are typically removed, repurposed, or respectfully disposed of.
• Memorable moment: “He said, ‘Oh, I could have given you the Ten Commandments yesterday, lady. But now that it's in a dumpster, you know.’” (09:30, Ellen, quoting a demolition worker)

The Fate of Ornaments & Jewish Symbols When Synagogues Change Hands (15:57–20:56)

• Many churches keep Jewish symbols (stars of David, Hebrew inscriptions) for reasons ranging from reverence, biblical continuity, aesthetics, or inertia ("if we take this off, it's going to look really crummy").
• Some institutions simply cover them, while others painstakingly remove them—but “ghosting” (traces in the stone or facade) often remains.
• Notable quote: “We follow the Old Testament, too.” (17:12, A churchgoer in a former Brooklyn synagogue, relayed by Ellen)
• Example from the host: Hasidic Jews removed crucifixes from windows in a repurposed Christian campus, but ghostly outlines are still visible decades later.

Preservation, Photography, and Documentation (25:17–36:52)

• Levitt’s love of photography is central to the book; she uses film and digital (sometimes both) to capture exteriors and details.
• Most images in the book are exterior shots—this was an editorial decision, but she also has interior documentation for some buildings.
• She describes the logistics and hazards of fieldwork—sometimes structures are unsafe, abandoned, or occupied by squatters.
• Memorable anecdote: “I almost fell through a sinkhole in the former main sanctuary of a basically abandoned synagogue in Rochester, New York.” (34:18, Ellen)
• The book aims for a “measured tone,” with photos presented like a “travel guide” to encourage readers’ own explorations.

Criticisms and Uncomfortable Realities (37:10–41:09, 50:55–52:22)

• Some community members have reacted negatively, denying the possibility of synagogues becoming churches or finding the project “distressing.”
• Levitt defends the necessity of historical documentation, even if it's bittersweet or painful.
• She highlights uncomfortable truths: closures are sometimes contentious, involving financial disputes, racism, or real estate pressures—mirroring issues faced by other religious and community institutions.
• “History is not always la di da and happy and heroes. It has mess. It can be very messy. It can be depressing as heck.” (40:33, Ellen)

Scale and Scope: How Many and Where? (41:51–48:18)

• Exact counts are elusive: hundreds of former synagogues in New York City alone, with major concentrations also in Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, and suburbs.
• Many buildings have been demolished, so their histories are known only from addresses and records.
• The book covers extensively: New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Pennsylvania; other cities include Seattle, parts of California, Detroit, Chicago, Cleveland, Baltimore, and a few others (limited by travel and resources).

The Human Element and Personal Favorites (52:22–56:58)

• Levitt recalls several synagogues that left a deep impression—some beautiful but decaying in Detroit, others tied to her own childhood in Brooklyn.
• Most meaningful is Shaare Torah (now a Baptist church), her childhood synagogue, whose building — and even its red carpet — survives.
• “It’s like a friend. It’s like an old friend.” (53:51, Ellen)

What Levitt Hopes Readers Will Take Away (57:13–58:39)

• A desire to encourage readers to learn about and engage with their local history, Jewish or otherwise.
• The hope that the book serves as a reference, a tour guide, or inspiration for personal research and reflection.
• She encourages hands-on, respectful exploration and documentation of local heritage.

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Selected Memorable Quotes

• “I refer to the faint impressions of Hebrew letters left behind as ‘ghosting.’” (20:56, Ellen)
• “Ghosting” as a visual metaphor for memory and erasure in Jewish urban presence.
• “My feeling is I want to document these buildings and their stories before they're gone.” (39:26, Ellen)
• “Photography really has been such an important part of my life...it was like the Reese’s Peanut Butter Cup: the photography and the writing really, and it worked.” (28:13, Ellen)
• “Every building has a story.” (58:50, Ellen)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:18 — Levitt’s background, influences
• 05:15 — Why synagogues become “former” synagogues
• 08:53 — Fate of Judaica and building features after closure
• 15:57 — Jewish symbols in churches and why some remain
• 20:56 — “Ghosting” and traces of the past
• 25:35 — Photography: motivations, methods, experiences
• 37:10 — Criticisms and negative feedback from the community
• 41:51 — Approximate numbers and location patterns of former synagogues
• 50:55 — “Uncomfortable truths” about synagogue closures
• 52:45 — Levitt’s favorites and personal stories
• 57:13 — Hopes for readers and final reflections

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Tone & Language

The conversation is candid, reflective, and both scholarly and personal in tone. Levitt is forthright about the challenges, joys, and sadnesses involved. The host is empathetic and brings in personal anecdotes, fostering an open dialogue.

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Summary Takeaway

Ellen Levitt’s work is a call to recognize, preserve, and grapple with the ever-changing fabric of Jewish—and American—built environments. Through her photography and writing, she invites readers to document and respect the histories that live on, sometimes as “ghosts,” in the structures many pass by every day.

Transcript

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

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[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Welcome to the New Books Network.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Welcome to New Books Network. I'm your host, Schneer Zalman Neufeld. In her book Former Synagogues of the United States, looking at buildings that once housed synagogues, schools, and other Jewish institutions, published by resource publications in 2026, Ellen Levitt uncovers the hidden history of America's Jewish built environment. Ellen Levitt is a teacher, writer, photographer, and tour guide. Her previous books include the Lost Synagogues of Brooklyn, the Lost Synagogues of the Bronx and Queens, the Lost Synagogues of Manhattan, and Walking Manhattan. I'm so glad Ellen's new book has brought her to our program. Welcome, Ellen.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

So to get started, could you please tell us a little bit about your background and what attracted you to this project?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Okay. I'm a lifelong Brooklyn, New York resident and I'm very interested in all the things all around me. This whole project really started because I was interested in photography, to be honest. So it's kind of a culmination of mixing together my interest in photography and writing, also my interest in Judaism, not just religious, but also cultural and also my interests in the city. I'm very interested. I taught social studies for many Years and on the high school level, mostly. And I'm very interested, especially in urban history and certainly my hometown, New York City and Brooklyn, New York, by the way, I would say that a lot of what I've done, I would not have done this project had it not been a. That I had parents who were interested in photography history to some extent. My mother was the photography buff. My father was the history buff. He was also a structural engineer who worked with a lot of architects. And he got me interested in looking at buildings, not just passing by buildings. And also the fact that I went to a high school, a public high school, where I was, you know, where everybody was pushed to do things, not just the regular, like writing and math. I took photography classes there, and I had some really interesting photography, you know, teachers who. I don't always like what they told me, but they did push us to do, you know, to experiment to find different subjects. I had some English teachers who were like social studies teachers who would nudge us, you know, harangue us about our writing and that. That's for many reasons. That's why I am here now writing about this kind of material and subject.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah, well, that's a wonderful tribute to. To. To your parents and also to teachers who are committed to your sort of personal growth and development. Even if maybe when you were, you know, a teenager, you weren't as excited about their instruction or guidance, but it sort of paid off later on. Oh, yeah, that's wonderful. So tell us a little bit about why Jewish communities in the US and this book focuses on. And we'll get into this. Various buildings throughout the US Why Jewish communities in the US Leave their synagogues, allowing them to be used for other purposes.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Yeah, look, this subject. And I've been so devoted to this subject really, since when I started photographing them in, like the early 2000s. You know, I noticed that people. A lot of it is what I call shifting demographics. I like that term because it's a little bit. A little cool. It's a little. Puts a little distance between the reason. There are many reasons that synagogues became something else. Sometimes it was for something that was not unhappy. It could be the congregation decided, we want a bigger building, we want a more modern building. We want a building in a suburb, not in the city. Or we want a suburb. We want a building in the city and not in the suburb. But sometimes there were sad reasons because congregations merged and then petered out. There were some that the people felt threatened because of shifting demographics, changing neighborhoods. There were some that Some of these congregations and buildings, even in. I could think of a few in Chicago, Detroit, the Bronx, in New York City, where they were experiencing theft and vandalism and they were. The people said, we want to get at it. In some cases, a few of these buildings were outright abandoned, but usually not a lot of times they would, you know, they were approached by. Or they approached people in real estate and said, could you flip this building? You know, a lot of times these buildings did become houses of worship for other faiths, especially Christian, especially Protestant, but occasionally Eastern religions, even mosques in a few cases. Sometimes they became private housing, sometimes they became art galleries, stores, et cetera. You know. So there are various reasons, because the other thing is that Jewish people were not told in the United States, you must live here. People move. People are on the move. This is a theme throughout American history and throughout not just Jewish American history, people move. A lot of what has happened to synagogue buildings has happened to church buildings, Catholic, Protestant churches. You know, people move, the buildings become too old and decrepit, and something else happens to the building. It becomes a house or whatever. So it's not exclusively a Jewish thing. But I did focus on Jewish ones because I could. Because I was more interested in them and also because then I could translate, you know, the Hebrew or Yiddish or transliterated English and Yiddish that I found outside and inside the buildings.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Right, right. So you can use your. Your particular skills and knowledge base to help explain these particular buildings. Sure. And so tell us, when congregants leave a synagogue, I assume that Torah scrolls, which are both sacred and. And expensive, are removed and taken care of in some way. But what happens to the Judaica from that synagogue, like the memorial plaques and stained glass windows? Okay.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

A mixture of things. Typically, stained glass windows usually stay in the building. Occasionally I've seen some where they were taken away, especially if there was major renovation in a building. Like, I remember there was one former synagogue in East Orange, New Jersey. And I showed up and I see that they're starting to. The workers are dismantling part of it. And I said, and I said, is there anything left I could, you know. And I remember that one of the workers said to me, oh, I could have given you the Ten Commandments yesterday, lady. And I was like, oh. He said, but now that it's in a dumpster, you know. You know, sometimes some of the congregations, I know of a few in New Jersey, for example, where they saved stained glass windows, I know there's some man in the Midwest, is he in. In some city and he saved stained glass windows from certain places. But most of the time I've seen them just remain in the buildings. And I'm speaking, I'm, you know, because when I've gone to many former synagogues in. Throughout New York City, throughout New Jersey, Philadelphia, these are the ones I know the best. But even when I went out to, you know, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago, they're still there, the memorial tablets. Sometimes they're removed by people with forethought. Other times they're sitting there just on the walls. If it's too difficult to move, then it stays, you know, and that's why actually there's some people I know who. Who have a program where they, like, they encourage other Jewish people or anybody to take pictures of the memorial tablets, send the photographs in for this kind of database. Sometimes they, you know, the. Okay, one other quick thing. This is something I've learned doing this work. Stained glass windows do not always last. They can get. They can get broken due to vandalism or just poor care. The. The frames can warp. All kinds of things can happen. So they don't always last. Sometimes they become so crummy that, you know, whoever owns the building later on says, just push it, you know, just kick it out. Memorial tablets, sometimes I get saved, sometimes they don't. Other Judaica, are you curious? Like, you know, like, prayer books usually get rehoused or buried if they're in really bad shape. Like the cloth coverings for various. Like the Holy Ark, the Arun Kodesh, or like the dais, the, you know, they may be rehoused or they may just end up in somebody's attic.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah, so lots of. There's lots of different possible outcomes. I know just about the stained glass windows. I experienced, in some sense, an example of the kind of tragedy of the demise of a particular set of stained glass windows. So growing up in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn, the Yeshiva, the religious school that I attended as a child, was called Ahli Torah, the Tents of Torah.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

But.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

But previously it was called the Brooklyn Jewish center, which is a very famous sort of liberal Jewish institution in New York. And I think it was founded like the 1920s or something. And for decades it had very prominent Jewish figures coming to visit and lecture and so on. Anyway, speaking of changing demographics, neighborhood demographics, in the 1960s, 1970s, a lot of the non Orthodox Jews who lived in Crown Heights moved out as the black residents moved in. And so the support for the Brooklyn Jewish center declined. And eventually the Lubavitch Hasidic community that was stationed in Crown Heights, took over the building. That building had these beautiful stained glass windows. Very, very kind of large ornate stained glass windows and they had a beautiful stained glass dome on the top of the building. And I think due to exactly what you were talking about, the kind of lack of care and maybe it's expensive to upkeep these ornamental windows, they were kind of falling apart and eventually I think for safety reasons the, the school just decided to gut them and they just took them all out and then just put up, you know, regular windows and a regular roof. And that might have made kind of fiscal sense and maybe even safety sense, but it certainly was a real diminishment of the beauty of the building.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

I could think of at least one synagogue in a New Jersey city. I don't want to get too specific where there were people who fought over, I mean I think it even went to court over who was going to own the. Who's going to have possession of the stained glass windows. And I've seen pictures of them, they were really pretty. And there was, you know, and I think there was one faction of the congregation that just removed a whole bunch of them and brought them to a suburb and yeah, you know, people fought over it. It's not always pretty. You know. On the other hand, I could think of a former synagogue in Brooklyn, maybe about a. Not even 15 minute drive from where I am. And I went a few times to visit the place in its sunset years. I'll say that my in laws had a friend who still attended there and I remember standing on the. It was, by the way, it was originally built as a church and I'm looking at this building on West 10th street in Brooklyn and they had pretty stained glass windows, not a super elaborate. And I could see where there were little cracks and little missing pieces. And now it's not a church, it's an Asian American community center or something. They removed those windows. I mean I'm not surprised because they were in crummy shape, you know, what were they going to do? They didn't, you know, so it's to. I feel badly about it, but on the other hand, I understand why they remove them, you know.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Right. They have to, they have to balance all of these different.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

One thing I'm going to say about former synagogues in general, they, and I've even written this, they, they do have similarities, you know, amongst themselves and they also have their individual stories, you know, so it's not like there's a complete pattern all the time, you know, and the More I explore, the more I've realized this.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Sure, sure. And I am curious. Speaking of just like what remains from the synagogue after it takes on its new life, let's say. I've noticed, and it's very clear in your book as well, I've noticed from walking past various buildings, especially in New York, in particular buildings that have become churches, that they often retain either the stained glass windows and. Or sort of other Jewish ornamental features on the building, like the mug and David, the star of David. And I'm curious if you have thoughts, especially for churches, why they do that. Do you think that there's something in particular, that there's a kind of calculation about retaining these Jewish ornamental features, or is it just kind of institutional inertia? Like, the thing is up there, why bother taking it down?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Oh, I've gotten answers. I've asked and I've got. I could think of a particular one in Brooklyn, in the East New York neighborhood, which the Perryslaw congregation, which is now some, you know, it's a Christian church, largely a Latino congregation. And the very first time I went to, oh my gosh, probably like 2008 or so, and I asked them, why do you have still have, like, you know, the Judaic? And they said, well, we, we, we follow the Old, the Old Testament, too. And they weren't offended that I asked that. They thought it was kind of cute, you know, or nice, whatever. Look, I've gone into other former, you know, former synagogues that became churches. And I'll ask them, why do you still have, you know, this Hebrew writing? And they're like, we don't really know what it is, but it might be a prayer. We were afraid to take it down. Then I'm looking at it, it says, it says ladies Auxiliary Esther Goldworth Su, you know, Charon, blah, blah. And they're like, oh, you know, and sometimes they'll. They've said to me, you know, they don't want to take it down because they're afraid it's going to look worse. You know what? Okay. I could think of some of them. Sometimes what they do is they cover it up. I mean, occasionally they put a fake wall up. But like, I remember one former synagogue in, in, let me say, you know, also East New York, they put like, rugs over. And one of the workers said, you want to see what's underneath the rug? You know, behind the rugs, I'm looking like, peekaboo. There it is, you know, ladies auxiliary or whatever it was. Sometimes I think that they do feel A certain reverence for it. And also it is, I guess, some inertia where they just. They're like, if we take this off, it's going to look really crummy.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah, I mean, I guess I became particularly sensitive to this question of modifications of religious buildings, physical modifications of religious buildings based on shifts in the religious identification, so to speak, of the building, because at one point I went to. To the yeshiva, the religious school in Alubavitch, a Hasidic school in Morristown, New Jersey. And that school has a whole campus, and that campus had previously been a Christian institution. And there's this large, squat building at the center of the campus. And it turned out that the Christian institution, church, religious school that had established the building, and they put crucifixes on the bottom of each of the windows on one side of the building. And when the Lubavitch Hasidic community took over the campus and the building, they systematically knocked out the crucifixes. They took a chisel, and they chiseled out the crucifixes on the bottom of each of the windows. But to your point about things remaining or looking worse or something now, 50 years later or something 40, 50 years later, you could still see the outline of the crucifixes on the bottom of every single one of those windows, even though the Hasidic community has occupied that building, hadn't been using it as a religious school, you know, for decades. So it definitely raises the question of how you make these physical changes. Like, if you. If there's a Star of David and you just kind of chisel off, like, the surface of the. Of the ornament, you'll still have the outline that may, you know, look worse.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Oh, two things I'm going to bounce off from that. First of all, there's an expression I use called ghosting I. Out of. For lack of another, more specific term. One of the things I noticed early on with a number of former synagogues is that you see, like, the faint impressions of Hebrew letters. Maybe they had been chiseled, as you said, or. Or maybe they had been. Like, there were maybe brass letters that, you know, and then when they were removed, you know, they write up in Hebrew letters. And then when they were removed, you still see the ghosting of Hebrew letters. And I've noted that on many, you know, for quite a while about this. It's interesting. Or. Okay, the other day I was revisiting. I revisit a lot of these former synagogues to see how they are. And then Especially if there's on the way, I'm going somewhere. And I noticed there's this one called. It had been built as the new lots Tamutora. Now it's a. It's a non denominational early childhood center. And what they did, you can see that there is still chiseled Hebrew names on certain parts of the building. But what happens is people, you know, over the years they've been painted over, painted over, painted over. So you really have to go like. And scrutinize. So that happens too. You may have noticed. The other thing I wanted to say is actually on the other end, like reuse. In many cases I've seen former synagogues that really look so much like they still are synagogues except for the fact that there is a cross, one or two crosses and a sign that says, you know, like Berea Magnificent Church or whatever it is. I just made that one up. I know Berea is. But you know, in that. And yeah, there are in various cities and suburbs around the country, you still see these synagogues. They look like synagogues, but then they have a cross or two crosses and a sign that says, you know, you know, holy Holy Ghost, such and such church. And that's kind of interesting to me too. And the fact is that like, you know, yeah, they retained all this Judaica, by the way. I'm gonna go on the other side with the chiseling thing. There's a former synagogue I can think of in Brooklyn and it's not too far from where I live. And they, you could see still some Judaic stuff, you know, Hebrew letters. But some of it got, you can see that it got like chiseled out. And I found out who had done it. It was a rabbi who had. Who had been the last pulpit rabbi at that synagogue. And it had been a Conservative Jewish synagogue, not Orthodox. And I asked him, I. But I had a feeling it was him, but I didn't want to. So I said, do you know who chiseled out like the Hebrew names and stuff? And he said, oh, Ellen, I did it, you know. And I said, but Rabbi, so and so why did you do it? And he said, well, I didn't want it to remain there. And I said it's still kind of ob. Well, I just, I figured. I realized it was kind of a delicate question. And I asked him again some other time and got the same answer.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah, well, I could see that. I mean, it's a very interesting question about sort of propriety and what is the proper way of handling These situations. But I could certainly imagine certain people from the Jewish community feeling like it would be inappropriate for, for a building that became, let's say, a church to have Hebrew letters or maybe some kind of religious Jewish message remaining on the walls of what would become, let's say, a church.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

They usually don't seem too upset about it. What I have noticed more often is like the few times it's a mosque, they usually remove it. Although I could think of one in Queensland. They did retain some of it. Maybe because it was more like a 1970s building as opposed to like a 1910s or 20s building. Everybody's got their. They're like, I don't know. It's not always obvious.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

No, I don't think there's anything obvious about it at all. I think that's what makes it so interesting. So shifting gears a bit, your book includes some wonderful photos of former synagogues. Could you tell us a little bit about the photography that's in the book?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Okay. Yes, I, I love photography. I've loved photography since I was a little kid. I, I remember various birthdays where my mother said, here, you know, I got my first, I remember at age 11, I got my first. No, I think I was nine. I got my first, you know, point and click. Then I, then I was 11, I got my first digital. No, excuse me, 35 millimeter camera work. I worked my one summer as a daycare counselor and I bought my own slr, you know, film camera. Okay. I'm throwing a while around. I'm a, I'm a bit of a gear nerd. Yes, I'm a camera nerd. And to be honest, a lot of times I've showed up at places, especially if I know I'm not going to get to see them constantly, you know, outside of New York City. Like, if. So when I went to New Jersey or Cleveland or Chicago or Buffalo, because I don't run up to Buffalo all that often. So I took pictures with a digital, my phone camera. I took it with a point and click digital camera. I took another picture of the place or a few of them with a fancier digital camera that my younger, we gave my younger daughter. And she said, yeah, go ahead, use it, whatever, just don't break it, mom. And then I still use, I still take some pictures with that film camera, black and white film that I bought in the summer of 1981, a Minolta XGM. And I purposely keep black and white film and I use it just for black and white film because it's the special Thing I love that camera is one of my most, most treasured items. And when it was broken and I had to bring it into a place and I was like, please. It's like a patient on the operating table. I don't use it all that often. And at this point it's. I don't develop black and white film that much. Very rarely. But I know of a store in, in, in Brooklyn where I can. That's like maybe 20 minutes away from me by car. And I'll bring them. And they know that you're, that I'm the lady with these pictures of buildings, you know, in black and white. But yeah, so that's why it, it really, it's a big thing for me. Photography really has been such an important part of my life. And you know, when I was in high school, there were a bunch of us who would walk around in the hallways with our packs of, with like these big envelopes and you know, we would take out our pictures that we worked on during the day or what are called contact sheets. You know, we would put the negatives down and had the pictures and then you would pick which. And we're like just these show off nerds with all these contact sheets. And then I even did it in high school, I mean, in college. And I did it on my own really. And for many years, even at home, I used to do this. So it, it really was a photography project for us. I took a lot of these photographs and somebody was going to exhibit them. And then he had a. He lost his lease, this guy, Frank Jump. And he, but he took the pictures and made a, a website, a webpage. Excuse me. And then people were telling me, why don't you try to make a book out of it? And they knew I also enjoyed writing because I'd done freelance writing on various subjects. So then it was the, you know, it was like, you know, the Reese's Peanut Butter Cup. It was the photography and the writing really. And it worked.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah. And I'm curious like about the sort of content of the photographs themselves. Like, do you have any particular, you know, like approach or style, you know, when you're taking pictures of these old buildings, is there something in particular, you know, you're trying to capture or you know, a feeling or something related to photographing these buildings?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

A lot of it, I do look a lot of it. I look at it in as a dot. I'm doing the documentation in many ways. But I also want to get some really nice, you know, shots, you know, like, oh, you know Oh, I can get the sun here. And, you know, or sometimes I. I'm funny, I'm. I'm pop in. Popping into my head is this picture I took of some. Of a synagogue in Chicago. And I. It had like, a really sad ending, which I don't even want to, like, go in completely. And it's. It's like an underused church now. But I'm looking at this building and I'm like, this had been a regal building at some point, and it's in a really not so good neighborhood, poor neighborhood now. And I was like, walking around trying to get a different angle. And I remember, like, this particular one because it was on a corner. I'm trying to get it, you know. So, of course, with digital photography, you can take tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, constantly take pictures and then, you know, weed them out. The bigger issue is when you're taking film pictures because then you're like, you don't have as many. You don't throw out as many. And, you know, so I'm more deliberate in that way. But I also like to take these pictures of details. Many of the detail pictures are meant more from my writing, because then I'll say, okay, you know, there's a. There's a particular detail on the lower, on the left side of the entrance, and you could see the name and this and that and the dedication year and things like that. All right. But I like, also, then I get these nice overall pictures of the building, especially with the entrance, if that's the most interesting part of it, to really capture the pretty or grand essence of it.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah. And it's interesting to me because I remember reading once or looking through a different book about old, you know, abandoned synagogues. And there were a lot of. Now, I can't remember the name of the book, but it was a kind of big, like a coffee table book. And my. My parents had it in their house growing up, when I was growing up, and there were a lot of interior shots. And often, you know, maybe it was. Was like right before or during the kind of a construction project or something like that. And so, like, there was a lot of. I remember it stuck in my mind or like a lot of glass, kind of shattered glass on the floor, on the. On the bema, the dais. And like, things were. Were very disordered, anarchic inside the synagogue. But if I remember correctly, I think all of the. The photos that you included in, in this book are exterior shots. I don't think there's any.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Cause that was an editorial Decision. I mean, they basic. I mean, actually, there are a couple of reasons for it. Basically, the editor wanted it that way. But why? Why? Because they just thought that they were the nicest. They were most attractive. By the way, are you talking about a book about the Lower east side?

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

It could be. I mean, I was really a kid when I. When I looked at it, so I don't even remember the title of the book, but I remember, to be honest, it had like a. Like a. In my mind again, I was very young and maybe imagine, you know, had like a kind of a wild imagination. But I remember thinking it remind. This was definitely a book about American, maybe New York synagogues. But it reminded me of like Kristallnacht in Germany, you know, like, it had a very kind of traumatic feel to it, at least again, to me as a kid.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Yeah, my book doesn't look like that.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

No, no, no, that's what I'm saying. Your book is, in a sense, much more upbeat. And the photography certainly, you know, the buildings are presented in a very, you know, let's say, sort of measured tone, you know.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Well, somebody. One of my friends said to me when they picked it up pretty early on, it looks like a travel guide, Ellen. And I said, yeah, I guess it's. You know, in a. In a way it is because I kind of envision in my mind that because I didn't. They. The editors didn't put in so many photographs. They put a limited number that you could open up the book, take out your cell phone, go on Google Maps and look at other, you know, other angles of the particular book. In my own collection, I have interior. For some places, I have interior pictures, and for some, not. Look, when I went to Chicago, I. I was in a rush. I was. There are only really two days, chop, chop, chop. And a lot of times I was just taking a picture, driving over to another place, driving a picture, maybe getting out to look a little bit. Funny enough, when I went to Detroit, I had more time on my hands. This was a different trip. And I did take the time to walk around. I went into a couple. It depends where, because the ones in New York City to some extent, some of them in New Jersey, because I've gone to them more than once and I could get in, especially on a Sunday when they're having a service or if I find out, oh, they have open pantry afternoon on Thursdays, you know, so I'll go when they have their food pantry and I'll say, hi, can I take pictures of your memorial windows okay. You know, and you go in and you do that. So some places it's because I was able to get in and take extra pictures. All right, you want a little story? I remember there are a couple of these former synagogues, and I wrote about them in this book where. Yeah, I walked in, and then I realized these places are in really bad shape. I almost fell through a sinkhole in the main. The former main sanctuary of a basically abandoned synagogue in Rochester, New York. And when I realized, look, I had seen some people going in and out of it, and I realized there are homeless people living in there. So I just quietly walked in, minding my own business, and I'm taking all these pictures. Memorial tablets, stingless. And then I started to walk, and then I went, oh, and I withdrew. Yeah, there was a. There was a big sinkhole, and then there was even another one that I found, and I actually started to cry. It just seems so sad. There was a. In a similar situation. There was a former synagogue in Detroit. And I'm looking at it from outside, and it looks kind of nice. It had been a church. It was a synagogue, then it was a church, and even the church left it. I walked around to the back. I put on work gloves, thinking, oh, maybe I can take, you know, like, pull something apart and look. Well, I saw that the whole balcony basically had rotted away. If I had taken a step too close, would have fall. Fallen at least 40ft. So, you know, so you really have

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

to be careful doing this type of work. This is not just cerebral. This is very hands on and potentially dangerous sometimes.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

The field work. Yeah.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yes, yes.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

I mean, it's exciting. People like, oh, you almost fell through.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah, well, I could do without that kind of excitement. But I'm curious. You note that not everyone is pleased with the work you do on former synagogues. What criticisms have you faced?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Yeah, I mean, I think I saw this more early on when I was working on the earlier books, but I also have been maintaining first one and then a second Facebook page where I document these things and I also promote my books on them. But I remember there was one woman who kept saying, this is not. She kept typing in, this is not possible. Synagogues cannot become churches. And I said, lady, I'm sorry to tell you this, but. And she was adamant about it. And I said, you know, I even read up more about the laws of. You know, like, there are, like, laws about how you. There are laws and traditions about how you say goodbye to a synagogue and you remove things and you do. What are the Haka fod or the processional marches to like, say a proper farewell to them. And I said, look, these people, you know, the congregations, I assume did this. I know in for. I had documentation for this for at least two former synagogues, one in Detroit, one in Brooklyn. And this woman kept saying, no, this is not possible. And, you know, I got so fed up that I blocked her from my Facebook page. Other people have just said, you know, a minor version. Like, you know, this is really on. This is really distressing work that you're doing. Yeah, I know. I like to call it bittersweet. I mean, I'm not going to say, oh, it's so happy. La la la. It is kind of, you know, it can be depressing, whatever. But my feeling is I want to document these buildings and their stories before they're gone. Yeah, there are, there are several former synagogues that I have documented. I know best in New York City, but even in New Jersey, at least one in Philly, one in San Francisco. And I didn't even get to take proper pictures of it. And they're gone. And my feeling is now that they're demolished, you're lucky if you got pictures of them. Can I at least do this documentation? And you can say it makes me feel sad, but I'm glad you're acknowledge the fact that A, I made a document, I documented this work. B, you have to realize history is not always pretty. It's not always. Look, I learned this as a social studies teacher too. History is not always la di da and happy and heroes. It has mess. It can be very messy. It can be depressing as heck. Nice choice of word, but. No, no, but really. So acknowledge that. I think most people do, but you know, occasionally or I've had a few people said, well, they, why don't we buy back all these synagogues? It's not right that. And I said, well, are you going to cough up the cash? You know, there have been a few, like a handful of cases where they did or like there's some story I know about this man who lives in the Midwest. He's got a farm and he bought a synagogue that was abandoned and he moved it to the corn fields or something. I mean, God bless him. Excellent. But most of the time people, you know, people left some synagogue in, you know, on Unru street in Chicago, excuse me, in Philadelphia or they left, you know, they left this big synagogue in Cleveland on. Near the Mayo Clinic. And what are they going to do? You know, you're going to take all of the things out. At least they took the Taurus scrolls out. At least they took this and that and the other thing out. You know, you, it's, you got to be. I, I inherited especially from my dad, this very realistic, like, look, stuff ain't happy, but you got to be realistic about it.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah, yeah. And definitely, like you said, there's a big difference between sort of sacred objects like Torah scrolls or prayer shawls, prayer books. You know, those are things that are relatively easy to transport. You could take them from one synagogue, bring them to another. When you're talking about huge buildings, you know, potentially buildings that are in physical decay, you know, there may not be much that could be done to kind of salvage them. So big picture, approximately how many former synagogues are there in the US and when were they built?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Wow, that is a difficult question. And I've actually been sparring with this lately because I've been reading these articles where people saying there are well over 500 synagogues in this. 10 in just in the Lower east side of Lawn. I'm thinking, were they really that many? You know, I, it's hard to say. I know I've documented, you know, so like a couple hun. I, I think there were at least about 500 in the five boroughs of New York City that closed up. Going outside of that, it's hard for me to know which. Are you also asking like which cities had the most.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Where do you see them? Yeah.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

All right. So. Because here's something that's not always obvious. You know, I have seen many former synagogues, a large number in Chicago and Detroit. But you know, I've also realized that sometimes there are places where there might have been a lot more synagogues, but they were demolished. So you don't see all of them. I mean, I came across this to some extent in Detroit, a little bit in Cleveland, even in New York City. I'm trying to think there was, there were some places I was curious like about visiting Providence, Rhode Island. I did visit it once, actually twice. But one time I didn't even focus at all on former synagogues. And I, you know, I there through my research, I get a lot of addresses or people even send me address and then I'll come and I'll see the building is gone. There's like a modern building, you know, and so some cities may have had a lot more former synagogues, but didn't retain them. Some places had. Have more former synagogues just because they didn't knock them all down.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah. And what's the relationship between Jewish population numbers in the US and the number of former synagogues in the that area.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Well, I mean, there is a correlation. You know, that's why New York City has the greatest number of former synagogues. That's why Chicago and Philadelphia, it seemed to me to be the two of the other. They have the. The hugest number and they've for many years. They for, you know, for quite a long time, the greater Philadelphia area, the greater Chicago area, you know, suburban areas included, have a lot of former synagogues because they have a. Have had large populations. But look at Detroit. I guess Detroit is really a real one that you could really look at. They do have a lot of former synagogues there go around. But then there aren't too many Jewish people in Detroit itself. They, you know, and there are some in the suburbs. You know, I know that there is one active synagogue in Detroit. I did stop by it. I took a picture of it, and it was interesting to see it, you know. But in some cases, people really did disperse in New York City. People mostly moved to other parts of the city and then built other synagogues, you know, more synagogues, you know, and so that's a big part of it too. Me, it's obvious that. What would be an example, I mean, there's a reason that East Skodak, this really rural place in New York City, central New York, only has one form of synagogue because there weren't too many Jews there. And now it's like some kind of new age meditation place. But the major cities, such as Chicago and Detroit. And also I've been. I have a friend from high school who lives in Milwaukee, and he's told me, and he sent me pictures of all these former synagogues in Milwaukee. So there, you know, it's not exactly a secret that certain places have a lot of synagogues because there used to be a lot of Jews there, or they may still be in the general area, but they decamped to suburbs. New York and Chicago and Philly to some extent are kind of the exceptions. Maybe a little bit. Chicago, also Baltimore.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah. And could you tell our listeners what states do you cover in your book?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Okay. It's a good thing I got a copy of the book. I went all over New York State. Well, or I went to many, many parts of New York State. And it was important for me, I think, because I really do use the. I'm very New York centric. I mean, it's obvious and I'm not embarrassed about it. But I realized I also needed to go beyond to really see other parts of the country. And I did cover much of New Jersey because New Jersey is the next place over. I've covered a decent amount of Pennsylvania, but I know that there are places, other places I haven't. And Connecticut, I've gone to many places. Those are the states that I have covered the most, the most comprehensive in the most comprehensive fashion. I still have plenty of places to go. I did not go to the south except for New Orleans to document them. In California, I'm. It's mostly that I focused on a particular two former synagogues in San Francisco because that's where I've gone. You know, I had relatives out there, but I didn't go to Oxnard, I didn't go to Sausalito. You know, I didn't go everywhere to see if there were any other synagogues. So I mean, I know that there's plenty more that can be done, you know, and sometimes people will scold me for that. Why didn't you go to such and such. And I said, I can't go. Everywhere I will go, I hope to go. You know, sometimes it's like obvious places like, all right, I'm sorry, I didn't go to Cincinnati. But you know, or why didn't you document all the former synagogues in Boston? And I do. That is something I do want, I want to see. There are some, some of them were knocked down and that's part of the reason why, you know, I didn't go there. I mean, I did quite a bit of Ohio. I did.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Right. So we're looking through the, the, the book to make sure we mention all of the, the cities, the states that you visited.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Oh, I went to Seattle and I didn't even get to see all of them. You know, some I did so out west. I have a few places there. I was in Las Vegas. I had a, like make believe. I was shooting dice to remember that one. I was in Las Vegas and I saw a couple former synagogues and actually I decided not to include them because they really had no remaining Judaic. I had documented them on one of the Facebook pages. I did find some in Detroit, excuse me, in Providence, Rhode island and the suburb of it, but a couple of them already got knocked down. So there are only like two or three left. So I was just like, ah, whatever. I know that I can go further. I didn't get out to Missouri, I didn't get out to Kentucky. Yes, at some point I hope to, but I really wanted to make my focus New York. I wanted to make sure that I went to parts of the Midwest. I felt it was important because I hadn't done that before. And. And I felt it was important especially because of Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, you know, places like that. Baltimore, I realized was very important to include the greater Baltimore area, let's say. But I know there are other places I need. Look, I should go to Texas and document these. Somebody I know from through friends and when I was kid, he's out in Colorado and he's sent me pictures of this particular place. All right. You know, a lot of it is. I mean, if somebody wants to give me a huge grant or grants that I'll go traveling all over the place. But some of. A lot of it is because of my own, you know, geographic restrictions, you know.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Sure, sure. Well, it's hard to maybe go to all of them. There's just so many and, you know, the day is short.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

But I went to places that did have a large number, although, yeah, I want to go to. I do want to go to Wisconsin also, because then I can go visit my friends, go to, you know, Milwaukee and was another. Another city.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah, sure, sure. Right. Let me ask you something else. You mentioned some of the uncomfortable truths about former synagogues. What are some of these uncomfortable truths?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Well, partly that, you know, that they didn't always close out in a happy Kumbaya fashion. You know, like there were people arguing about the finances, who's going to get, you know, the funds from selling it off. Sometimes it was uncomfortable truths about why they closed, or even like some of them might have been able to hang on, but they received, you know, offers to merge with somebody else. And they did merge. You know, it's that kind of. Kind of like often real estate issues, financial issues, sometimes some of the people in the former synagogues made some really nasty racist comments about the people moving in. So, you know, and. And it's. I have to, you know, straddle this kind of. I'm interested in hearing your story, but, you know, like, don't try not to get too nasty about it or whatever. So those are some of the uncomfortable truths, like why they close that. And I got to tell you something, it's in some ways similar to what happened with certain churches. Finances, buildings got messed up and people weren't maintaining them. Well, now they're in such bad shape, what are you going to do? You know, that kind of thing.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Sure, right. And I'm curious, you know, you document so many synagogues throughout different states in America. I'm curious, do you Have a favorite. I know this could be a tough question, but do you have a favorite. Favorite former synagogue?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

I have a few. There were. You know, the. There were two. There was one in. There were two in Detroit that I just thought they were so pretty. Really. The one that was. And the one that was. Had the. Like, the. The. The. The balcony area had rotted out. I'm looking around in there, and there was something really, really sweet about. I don't know how, you know, there's a. Okay. There's a former synagogue I know, and I've actually seen it even within the. I usually stop by there about once a year to see it. And it's a big building. It looks really grand. It's a fairly big building, takes up a whole corner, still has a lot of Judaic on it. Plus the name of the. Whatever. Something Calvary Baptist or something. And we even know the names of the architects. It's a really nice. You know, it looks magnificent. That's part of the. And, you know. And of course, probably my favorite one is the one I went to when I was a little girl. Yeah. I mean, really, a lot of the.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

What was it called?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

The impetus for this whole project really, is the fact that when I was a very, very little girl, the very first synagogue I attended was called Shari Torah. Or as my dad would say with his thick Brooklyn accent, Shar E Torah. It's. The building is still in the main. The building that I documented and went to is still in existence. It is now a Baptist church. It is on. It's on Albermal Road and East 21st street on a corner. You can still visit it. It has an interesting sculpture on the front that says Shari Torah in Hebrew. And it was designed by a somewhat known Jewish architect, Ludwig Wolpert. And I've been inside it and the few times I've gone in since, you know, it became a church one time with my dad and a friend of ours, Charlie, they've been always very nice to me, you know, and it's kind of bittersweet. I pass this place, you know, occasionally because it's on the way for where I'm going other places. And I always. And it's like. It's like a friend. It's like an old friend. The other thing is we go to a synagogue where people from that. There are at least one person besides myself from that synagogue who now attends our synagogue, Flatbush Jewish Center. The name of. It's called Flatbush Jewish center, slash, Shari Torah. Yes. Mike Levine, who's in his early 80s. Is he 82? Yeah. Or is he 83? But anyway, he went there as a kid and, you know, so. And the funny thing is when I bounce stories off of him and I say, mike, do you remember such and such about Shari Torah that he's like, most of the time he doesn't have those memories. It's, like, really weird, I guess, because I saw this place as a little child and I have such a different, you know, memory of it. And I want to add something. So that's. It really was Shari Torah, and it still stands there. That is really the reason I got into all in in this particular topic. Not just because it was something to write about, not just. It was something to take pictures of. Because on my birthday in 1999, I took the day off from work, decided to drive around Flatbush, Brooklyn, New York. And I took black and white pictures. And then I saw my old synagogue became a church. My mom and aunt's old synagogue on Cortelieu Road became a church. This other, you know, and it led to a lot of questions and, you know, realizations and, yep, thanks, Sharitar. But. And it still has the red carpeting in it. Oh, my gosh. When I was a little girl, I remember there was red carpeting in it. And, you know, it made an impression of me. Like I knew red carpet meant something special. And it still has, like, this faded red carpeting.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Well, I'm definitely going to go check out Sharitara or the former Sharatora, but we're almost out of time for the last question. I'm curious. What do you hope readers would take away from your book?

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Okay. I want people to learn about the histories of these buildings and realize that they do have different stories. I want people, especially who are Jewish or even Christian, to reflect on how these buildings change what they meant to people originally and how they've, you know, morphed. People can use this as my book is a tour guide or a reference. They can also use it as, you know, light reading. I guess I want, you know, I can't get away from being a teacher. I want people to go out and do their own investigation. I've known, I've actually helped one or two people develop tours and even a couple of people develop lessons, like, you know, lessons for teaching based on this kind of material. There's a. About two months ago, a young man who goes to Francis Lewis High School in Queens, he contacted me. He said, hi, Ms. Levitt. I'm doing this senior project about former synagogue buildings and former churches in parts of Queens. And I was like, all right, you came to the right person. Elijah. His name is Elijah. And I was like, you know, so I've been keeping up with his work. You know, it's interesting. So it makes people go out and do their own research.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Yeah. Fantastic. Yes. Oh, that's a great. A great place to end our discussion for today. Thank you so much for taking your time, the time to share thoughts with us.

[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

And thank you for interviewing me. I, you know, hope to make people, you know, go out there and take pictures with film cameras, I don't know, respect your former buildings and, you know, every building has a story.

[Host (Schneer Zalman Neufeld)]

Terrific. That brings our program. Thanks for listening and have a great day.

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[Ellen Levitt (Author and Interviewee)]

Sa.