Podcast Summary: Erin M.B. O'Halloran – East of Empire: Egypt, India, and the World Between the Wars
Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Nicholas Gordon
Guest: Erin M.B. O’Halloran
Date: October 2, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode features historian Erin M.B. O’Halloran discussing her book, East of Empire: Egypt, India, and the World Between the Wars (Stanford UP, 2025). The conversation explores the entangled histories of Egypt and India in the interwar years, illuminating how anti-colonial movements, intellectual exchanges, feminist activism, and pivotal international events such as the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Italy’s invasion of Ethiopia, and the Palestine question forged deeper socio-political connections across borders. Erin unpacks how these interactions influenced the rise of nationalist movements and how they contributed to the shaping of the modern Global South.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Motivation and Background
[03:16]
- Erin’s interest stemmed from personal experience in the Middle East and India, noticing organic historical links not commonly emphasized.
- Lamented the scarcity of secondary literature on tangible Indo-Egyptian connections, which inspired her doctoral research.
- “It struck me that these two places were way more organically connected...than I had been taught or educated to think about.” — Erin O’Halloran
2. Egypt’s Place in the British Empire
[05:06]
- Egypt, though geographically African, is deeply intertwined with Asia's political fate due to proximity and the Suez Canal, a vital imperial artery.
- Governance was complex: a British-appointed High Commissioner, an Egyptian monarchy, and, from 1924, an elected parliament.
- Three competing power centers: British imperial authority, Egyptian monarchy, and nationalist parliamentarians.
3. Anti-Colonial Connectivity: Egypt and India
[07:56]
- Post-WWI era witnessed near-simultaneous popular uprisings: Egypt’s 1919 Revolution and India’s escalating anti-colonial activism.
- These parallel struggles created a sense of shared purpose, moving elite dialogues to broader popular consciousness.
- “...the extent to which Egyptians and Indians understood their nationalist movements...as part of a shared project of liberation...” — Erin [07:56]
- 1919 is crucial: Gandhi’s emergence and pan-imperial awareness.
4. Impact of the Collapse of the Ottoman Empire
[10:42]
- Massive implications for Indian Muslims: the Khilafat Movement aligned with Gandhi’s Congress movement, briefly uniting Hindus and Muslims.
- The 1924 abolition of the caliphate fostered dramatic reevaluations—potential new Islamic centers considered (Cairo, Mecca).
- Indian Muslims formed relationships with Arab activists, especially during conferences on the caliphate.
- “...what will replace it, where will the new center of gravity of Islam reside? And is it possible that this caliphate will be reconstituted in another place?” — Erin [14:17]
5. Rabindranath Tagore’s Visit to Egypt, 1926
[15:03]
- Tagore’s reception revealed dual identities: celebrated as a Nobel laureate in Alexandria’s British-Indian expat context, then embraced as an Eastern icon by Egyptian nationalists in Cairo.
- His presence highlighted both Western exoticization and authentic affinity among colonized societies.
6. Mussolini’s Invasion of Ethiopia (Abyssinia), 1935
[18:02]
- A turning point for anti-colonial solidarity: both Egypt and India viewed the invasion as betrayal of international law and racialized imperial violence.
- Strong solidarity with Ethiopians; protests, fundraising, and even volunteers.
- Some factions viewed Italy as a potential ‘enemy-of-my-enemy’ against Britain.
- The crisis became a precursor to ideological bifurcations during WWII, amplifying dilemmas for anti-colonial leaders.
- “...the vast majority of opinion in the Egyptian and Indian contexts sides quite firmly with the Ethiopians against Italy.” — Erin [20:49]
7. Feminist and Cultural Networks
[25:27]
- Erin stresses integrating cultural and feminist activism into the broader story of anti-colonial politics.
- Indian and Egyptian feminists, often initially the only non-Western representatives at international gatherings, forged close connections, culminating in protest actions (like the 1939 Copenhagen walkout).
- Artistic and poetical production reflected the era’s contest of ideas—countering rising fascism and nationalism.
- “So I talk a lot about the role of feminist movements in India and Egypt during the 20s and 30s, the growing sort of friendship between various feminist leaders...” — Erin [25:59]
8. The Palestine Question's Centrality
[33:46]
- Palestine, a British colonial territory, became unavoidable in archival research—a crucial link affecting Egypt-India relations and later the partition of India.
- British empire’s internal divisions: Foreign, Colonial, and India Offices often at odds over policy.
- Indian Muslims, denied a seat at the Palestine conference, began to reconceptualize themselves as a “nation” akin to Jewish Zionist organizations—a vital antecedent to the demand for Pakistan.
- “This project is actually about Palestine... the big elephant in the room...” — Erin [34:09]
9. Rethinking the Global South
[49:03]
- The “East” of the interwar years evolved into what later is called the Global South.
- Erin reflects on the fluid self-identification of anti-colonial coalitions—optimistically multilateral at times, but prone to fragmentation.
- “There’s not one left and there’s not one global south—there’s many.” — Erin [51:25]
10. Current and Future Work
[53:30]
- Erin’s work is available at erinmbohalloran.com.
- Next book: Guernica Orientale, exploring the legacies of the 1937 bombing and Picasso’s painting in the context of colonial violence across the 20th and 21st centuries.
Notable Quotes
- “It struck me that these two places were way more organically connected...than I had been taught or educated to think about.” — Erin O’Halloran [03:16]
- “Egypt is very close to the Asian continent. It's very culturally connected to these places. It's very geographically and historically connected to them, but it's its own sort of thing.” — Erin [05:06]
- “...the extent to which Egyptians and Indians understood their nationalist movements...as part of a shared project of liberation from colonial rule.” — Erin [07:56]
- “So this is the beginning of the story...the intersection of various branches of Arab and Islamic nationalism across the Middle East and South Asia.” — Erin [14:17]
- “...most commentators reject this (Italian propaganda) out of hand because it’s so obvious that...Italy represents a European power that is...actively occupying and colonizing a brother non-Western state.” — Erin [21:35]
- “There's not one left and there's not one global south—there's many.” — Erin [51:25]
- “This project is actually about Palestine... the big elephant in the room...” — Erin [34:09]
- “We’re rehearsing a lot of the same dynamics as those from colonized environments... come up against the sense...in Western countries that our own domestic societies are under threat... and that these external issues are not a priority in the same way.” — Erin [29:32]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Personal and Historical Motivation: [03:16]
- Egypt’s Role in the Empire: [05:06]
- India-Egypt Connection in Anti-Colonial Movements: [07:56]
- Aftermath of the Ottoman Collapse: [10:42]
- Tagore’s 1926 Visit: [15:03]
- Impact of Ethiopia’s Invasion: [18:02]
- Feminist & Artistic Networks: [25:27]
- Palestine and Partition: [33:46] – [48:23]
- Rethinking the Global South: [49:03]
- Future Projects: [53:30]
Closing
- Erin’s website for her work: erinmbohalloran.com
- Erin’s forthcoming book: Guernica Orientale
- Host: Nicholas Gordon (@NickRIGordon)
This episode offers a textured, cross-regional perspective on anti-colonialism, emphasizing how key geopolitical events, personal networks, feminist activism, and cultural production intertwined India, Egypt, and the broader “East” in the decades between the World Wars. The conversation is rich in historical detail, pairs hard politics with softer cultural ties, and reveals the roots of many ongoing global dynamics.