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Es-pranza Humphrey, "Act Black: Posters from Black American Stage & Screen" (Poster House Museum, 2026)
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- [00:01]
A
Welcome to the New books network.
- [00:06]
B
In 1940, Langston Hughes wrote the poem Note on Commercial Theater. It opened with the lines, you've taken my blues and gone. You sing them on Broadway and you sing them in Hollywood bowl and you mix them up with symphonies and you fix em so they don't sound like me. Yep, you done taken my blues and gone. The poignant frustration of these words is a response to the persistent erasure of black creative talent in theater and film during the 20th century. Hughes's language reflects a long, painful history of both exclusion and appropriation, one in which black creators and performers were marginalized in industries that profited from their artistry while distorting and co opting their work. Starting in the 1880s, Black performers and those invested in telling stories centering black people attempted to counter the dehumanizing and harmful stereotypes used to portray black characters. Shows began touting all colored reviews to indicate that the cast was made up of actual black performers rather than white people in blackface, and that these spectacles aimed to build stories around the perception of black experiences. Although these performances were sometimes flawed and even overly prejudiced, they represented a significant form of black American cultural development and expression. Since theatrical performances were rarely recorded and many of the movies that featured all black casts are now considered lost films, films for which no copy is known to survive, advertising posters often provide the only remaining evidence of the most important productions featuring black performers between the 1870s and 1940s. These posters and the historic innovations of playwrights, composers, directors, producers, and the black performers behind them are the subjects of the exhibition Act Black Posters from Black American Stage and Screen, curated by today's guest assistant Curator of Collections at New York City's Poster House Museum, Esperanza Humphrey. Esperanza, welcome to the podcast.
- [02:19]
A
Thank you for having me.
- [02:20]
B
Esperanza, what was talk about the impetus of this exhibit? How did it make its way to the museum walls and what was your involvement in bringing it to life?
- [02:31]
A
So to think about how it even got to the walls, we have to go back about 10 years. My research for almost 10 years actually has focused on the black chorus girl. In my undergrad, I was focused on Josephine Baker and Ada Bricktop Smith. And then in grad school I was thinking about how the chorus girl truly represents like the idea of the new negro woman. And so I was thinking about their fashion and I was thinking about their presentation. And through that I realized that there was so much to black theater. There was so much that we haven't really uncovered in the space in the way that chorus girls represent black theater or black reviews or black vaudeville. So once I really delved into that aspect, I realized that you also can't think about entertainment without thinking about the screen, which is black film. And the idea just formed from there. And I think that the best way to explore that type of history is by way of the poster. Because as you mentioned in the beginning, and this is how I start the exhibition, thinking about when you're on a stage, especially at that time, rarely were things recorded, especially not to the caliber that we have today. And if we're thinking before recording technologies, it just wasn't a possibility. And then when I think about film, some of these things are lost. Some of these films are lost. And so the only thing surviving is, is the poster. And so that's kind of how that the idea of the exhibition came about.
- [04:14]
B
We're going to talk throughout and this will be repeated, linked in the show notes ways that people who don't live in New York City can. Can see and experience the exhibit. But I will say something that you only get by going is the scale of this exhibit. I mean, you're like, I felt a very tiny person with all of these posters. Can you talk a little bit about the scale of these posters?
- [04:44]
A
Yeah, and I love the scale of the exhibition.
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B
I should say not just the posters, but the exhibition itself.
- [04:48]
A
The posters and the exhibition. Because if we're speaking, I'm five, two. So I saw a six foot poster come in that I didn't expect to be six feet. And I was just like, wow, this is really going to help tell this story. But the exhibition is in our main gallery. Our main gallery is quite large and I knew that I wanted to fill the space. This is the exhibition that has the most posters in poster house's history. And so I take pride in knowing that a subject like this can take up that much space, even though these posters are so rare. Whenever I do tours, I even mentioned I stop at a specific poster and I know we'll probably get to it, but I stop at a specific poster that features Bert Williams and George Walker. I came across this poster by sheer luck and also the relationships that I had built while doing research for this show. Because a dear scholar and at this point friend, John Reddick, he put me in connection with the couple that owned this poster. And it's something that I had never seen before, not even in photographs. I hadn't seen this in photographs. It was, it's truly a wonder. And I think it's so special to have that in the exhibition, because where else would you see something like this? It should be everywhere. It should be everywhere so that people can understand the history and the context and the gravity of blackface minstrelsy and of the celebrity that was Bert Williams. So I'm happy to have it in this exhibition, if for nothing else than to let people know this existed. And it gives us a glimpse into a very deep, deep and dark history.
- [06:36]
B
I know exactly which poster you're talking about. Despite all the posters, I know exactly which poster you're talking about. And I. I think I gasped when I saw it. I took a picture of it with my phone. Do you want to talk a bit. Talk a little bit more about. About the poster?
- [06:51]
A
Yeah. So the poster is. Features Bert Williams and George Walker. They were a performance duo. And what ended up happening was they saw. They had been working together in the past, and they saw white blackface minstrelsy, and they decided, well, we can do this better. And, you know, I. I want to stop by saying that. Stop right here and say that to we, in understanding blackface minstrelsy, we do have to understand the context of the time. Whenever I'm asked, why would a black person do blackface? I always say, it depends on the black person. Like, that's. That's just what it is. We can't have a sweeping generalization of why black people at that time would do blackface or throughout the 20th century would do blackface. There is always a specific reason for a specific person or a specific group of performers. And so for Bert Williams and George Walker, they believed they could do it better, and they were more comedic with it, and it was, quote, unquote, more authentic when they did it. And so they started their comedy duo. And Bert Williams play is in blackface, he plays the more comedic role. And then George Walker, he's not in blackface, and he plays a more dandy character, and he's in more tailored dress. And their act is amazingly successful, and it shows. And even a poster, that's the six feet that I mentioned, that when I stand next to it, I'm such a small person. But even the poster tells us that this duo was important and they were important, and that's why they put so much investment into making a poster to advertise their show. Now, that poster most likely advertises into homing, which I get into in the exhibition. But when I stop at that poster, I also like to mention that George Walker eventually does pass away. And that leaves Burt Williams in a interesting position. He. It's not just that they can. That they're performing together and doing a successful show, thinking about that time period. They only have each other. They also have George Walker. Ada. Ada Walker. And she performs with them. She's like the queen of the cakewalk. But the two men have each other until George Walker passes. And in a racialized society, in a racist society, Bert Williams is left alone. So I think about the moments where he's removing his blackface makeup when he's performing with the Ziegfeld Follies in all white production. And he's probably, like, hearing them talk about what they're gonna do after the show, but he's not able to join them. So he's walking home alone after that because his community is gone from him. So that poster tells a much larger story, as do many of the other posters in the show.
- [09:59]
B
Talk about the process for selecting the posters.
- [10:03]
A
Yeah, as I said, these posters are very rare. And so I was starting with virtually nothing. And thankfully, I reached out to so many people and formed my own community of collectors and lenders. And through that process, I was able to start picking out, okay, what is the actual story that I want to tell? What is in my hands right now? What do I have readily available to me? And what type of story story can that create? So I knew that I wanted to do all black productions, with the exception of three films, which we'll speak about. But I knew they had to be all black productions, so that helped focus the search. And it's important to think about the all black productions, because there was a time where white people were doing blackface, so that did not count as an all black production to me. They had to be black people doing the performances, the dances. They had to be black musicians. And these posts are generally just quite hard to find. And so ultimately, I got very creative. That's why you see things like the printing blocks in the exhibition, because the theater section in particular was very hard, because they were largely wheat pasted. Wheat pasted things just are torn instantly or damaged from rain. They were never meant to stay up for that long. And they definitely weren't never meant for people to peel them off and collect them in their home. So I got really creative in that section. And then you also see things like window cards. And window cards were meant to display in community spaces. So if you think about, like, how these black communities would have had, like, a barbershop or a local grocer, those window cards probably were on display in those types of spaces, rather than showing, like, these grand performances and only in the fronts of, like, opera houses or theaters.
- [12:01]
B
I want to stay with the stage section for a few moments because before we get to the screen section, I noticed what I look to my eyes to be perhaps the oldest grouping of posters. There are four posters from the show Uncle's Uncle Tom's Cabin from 1910. Talk about these posters. And these were.
- [12:26]
A
These are.
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B
They're rough.
- [12:28]
A
These are rough. They are the oldest grouping of posters. But luckily I was able to find the oldest poster that does feature an all black cast. And cast in the film section, it says cast more prominently. But in the theater section, they're not going to say cast. They would say, like an all black review. So luckily, the oldest poster is from the 1870s that features an all black group of talent. But the Uncle Tom's Cabin one was the Uncle Tom's Cabin character posters. Those were easy in terms of selection, because I needed. Before I even tell the story of an all black review, we need to know what comes before that. And what comes before an all black review is our white actors in blackface portraying black people. Those posters are also very important because they tell the. They show us that there was a time where black people only existed in relationship with their white counterparts. And so I knew that there were gonna be people who were like, why is a show like this important? And not in a snarky way, but in a genuinely, like, intrigued way, like, why is a show like this important? Well, it's important because Uncle Tom's Cabin was the bestselling novel, and it was easy to adapt it into a tent show or a play because it was familiar text. Everyone knew Uncle Tom's Cabin, so why not just adapt it into a tent show so that everybody knows the characters but Uncle Tom. The character Uncle Tom only exists with little Eva as almost a foil of sorts. But even if it's not, if she's not a foil, he only exists to service her. Topsy. The character of Topsy only exists in the presence of white characters in that play. So she can only. She's seen as disheveled. And she departs extremely from Harriet Beecher Stowe's original characterization, because Harriet Beecher Stowe wanted to make sure that this was an abolitionist text. But once it becomes a tent show, they decide to make Topsy the comedic relief. And in some posters, you'll actually see that Topsy receives top billing because they know that the draw is the comedy that Topsy would supply. And again, Topsy is a white actress many times, more times than not in blackface playing this character. So I needed people to understand that before we even get into these. All black productions, all black reviews, all black plays. And so I say that it was easy to include Uncle Tom's Cabin because of all things, that was the most recognizable text that would become a 10 show or a play.
- [15:28]
B
Something else that's in this theater section was is artifacts. You mentioned woodblock prints, but also stage makeup. And I didn't realize until I got to this section of the exhibit and I saw it and it. And it hit me. I've never seen burnt cork before. I've read about it so many times, and I've never seen it. And you've got grease makeup, and you talk about. Talk about this makeup. And also, where did it come from? Like, I was shocked.
- [16:04]
A
Yes.
- [16:05]
B
To see us.
- [16:06]
A
I'm glad that you mentioned not seeing burnt cork, because that's how my search started. I didn't know that I was going to add the makeup into the show. I was just doing research. And I've always known about blackface minstrelsy since I was really young. My parents always taught me about that type of stuff. But as I was researching the show, I realized, wait, I've never actually seen or touched or been in contact with blackface makeup and all of its variations. And so I started to look up some of the companies that supply, that produce this makeup. And I think this is a good point to stop at and just think about the difference between a minstrel show and, like, an amateur minstrel show. When you have these companies producing this makeup and these guidebooks, and they are fueling the amateur minstrel show industry, that's the ones that would be performed at, like, the elite societies or country clubs or something like that. And there are great, great books that. That touch on that topic. So I'm loosely touching on it. But I started to look up some of these companies, and through Google Search, I saw something called a blackface lot. And that included everything that included the wig. Because I was looking for the burnt cork, I was like, I'm really interested to see what that actually looks like. This lot included the burnt cork, the wig, stein's makeup, the grease paint, some of the more detailed makeup sticks, and those were for the more fine areas, like around the eyes. And I'm not gonna say how much it was being sold for, but I do know that the minute I saw the price, I started to think about where it. How to place it in context in the show if I wanted. If I. If I decided to. That we should get it for the show. But it wasn't an easy decision. It was very unsettling, and my face has always been very unsettling. I think just historically, for anyone who looks at it, or I would hope so, that it doesn't sit right. So I spoke to a few people, I spoke to family members, I spoke to activists, I spoke to scholars, and eventually we kind of all decided that to get a blackface lot like that, it should be contextualized properly. And the best way to contextualize it is in an exhibition. And that's truly the best place for something like this. Otherwise, who knows who's buying that stuff and who knows what they're using it for? And I don't want to be presumptuous, and I don't want to assume that people are going to do that, but why else would it be sold on ebay, of all places? So through that conversation, I decided, I'm gonna put this in the show, and I'm going to put it in the theater section because it pairs very well historically with the Burt Williams poster and other posters that we. We have in the show. Because even the oldest poster, that's circa 1870s, the group of black men who perform are black men in blackface, and they were formerly ENS men. So again, we don't know the reasons why every single black person would do it, but it's just really interesting to see something like that and like, in the. In the flesh. And then to think, wow, these men would have been using these products or women would have been using these pro products to darken their face. And so that's. That's how it came. And then the evolution is the burnt cork and then the grease paint and then a more water removable blackface. And that just goes with the. With the way that, like the stage lighting, a harsh stage lighting, you need something to combat that. Also the quick removal, the removal process speeds up as we get to the more water removable solution. And then eventually we also have the Max Factor, a very popular makeup company. Max Factor has their black face menstrual pancake makeup.
- [20:17]
B
Yeah, I noticed. I'm glad you brought that up. I. I clocked the Max Factor right away. As someone who, you know, I wear makeup. I've sort of worn makeup throughout my life. And so I recognized the brand immediately. And then I wondered, oh, my gosh, is that where Max Factor started? I just didn't know, you know, were they. Were they a, you know, beauty, I guess, for a beauty makeup brand? And they also made blackface or Made theatrical makeup or like, did they start. Did they start with blackface?
- [20:51]
A
Well, I. I think for. For me. So I don't know the answer to what they started with, but I think what's most important about what we have on display is that it's pancake makeup that's very specific for film. And so we think about our, like, our. Our golden age stars. Pancake makeup is what would be used to, again, combat now, the production lighting on a set. So that's what you would use that. Whereas, you know, the stage makeup is. The stage lighting. Pancake makeup is very specific to the. To the screen, the lighting on the screen. This. This pancake makeup that we have says black minstrel. So. And. And they also have a version that just says black on it. So it's a very targeted way to market this type of makeup, which leads me to believe that they knew that there was a demand for. When you're on stage, when you're on the screen, if you are doing your menstrual performance or doing a blackface segment, you're going to need this special product, and we have it for you.
- [22:01]
B
It's interesting to hear also that these artifacts came as a lot because, again, I was. I was very intrigued by the makeup, admittedly. It is. So the makeup is something I took photos of because I was. I didn't know when I was ever going to see it again, honestly. So that's why I took photos of it. You mentioned a wig. I did not take a photo of the wig. I did not want a wig in my photo anywhere. I did not want the wig in my phone. There was something about the wig I found so unsettling.
- [22:37]
A
You know, I. I feel like you're. You're, like, in my head in most of this interview, because that was the one thing I wasn't going to display. And when I decided that I was going to display it, I was then going to display it in the box that it came in, because it came in a box. And then ultimately, again, I thought about it, and to be honest, I was thinking about high school groups and college groups, and I was thinking about the fact that we're, you know, we like to think that we're very far removed from this blatant minstrelsy and all of that. And in many ways, we are. So I think when I. When I think about the conversations that we have today, I consider the fact that these are young people who would walk into the show, and this will be the first time, maybe even through photos, that they see this and as it's been on display, I've realized there are adults. I'm. I'm 31 now. There are adults who this will be the first time that they're. That this will be the first time that they're seeing it. And so I realized that this will be a first time for a lot of people. And if it's not a first time, then maybe they've seen it once and they're like, you know, I haven't seen all of those parts, all of the moving parts that make up the minstrel show. And so I included the. Finally, I included the wig. And I thought. And even in the booklet, you can actually see a white man. Each page has its own, like, how to. To achieve your, like, racialized look. And there are other types of looks, but the racialized looks, you know, are particularly disturbing. And there's a page for your minstrel look, and it includes the white man with the wig on and putting on the exaggerated lips, the blackface makeup and that. I don't. I didn't keep the page open to that one. I have the page open to the poster section because we're poster housing to see that they sold posters for this. But it is very disturbing to see something about the wig is very unsettling. And I hate to use that word repeatedly, but it truly is. And so the wig was actually the last thing I decided to include in the exhibition.
- [24:53]
B
I felt I was happy that I saw it. I mean, I felt I. I was glad I. I had the opportunity to see it and have that experience. And also, I didn't want to remember it outside of my head for prosperity posterity. The same way I wanted to remember other parts of the exhibit in my phone, definitely.
- [25:16]
A
And. And again, I'm. I'm. I'm glad you're. You mentioned the feeling, the visceral feeling, because I don't know how white people receive stuff like this. I've asked and they've said it's unsettling. But my priority when curating was the black audience that would come into the exhibition. And so again, I thought, if it's going to be anywhere, let's properly contextualize it here. And so at the very least, even if the picture. You didn't snap a picture, because I, too, will not snap pictures of it. I'm bothered by it. But the label will give further information, the booklet will give further information, the burnt cork will give further information. And then from there, we kind of can assume, like, imagine what, like the horrors of. Of. Of blackface. Minstrelsy.
- [26:11]
B
So I mentioned at the top that you know, much of the marketing material for both stage and screen as we move into screen as well, is this announce all colored cast. Similarly, I thought it interesting that there is indication for some of the films anyway. For example, the film Black Gold said they were produced or filmed in all colored cities as well. Talk about, talk about this marketing of all colored.
- [26:44]
A
Yeah. So to, to. To approach the all colored and I'm using quotes because you know, I colored is not the way that when I'm doing a tour I'll say the poster will say all colored cast and its variations for the sake of this will say all black cast. But at that time, of course to say all colored cast, that was what was used. And that lends itself to the idea of the so called race film genre or the race film category, I should say, because it's a lot, a lot larger than just a genre. And these were films that had all black actors from Maine to supporting. These were all black casts. The people behind the camera, those races varied. And I made that very clear because I don't want people to think that all the directors were black. There are black directors in the show, but not all of them are black. Some of the composers for, for music, we're not all black. So sometimes when we think about the all black review or the all black cast, we're just thinking about the people either on the stage or in front of the camera. So the race film category comes out of this. All black actors, both main and supporting for the films. And Black Gold is a particularly interesting, I guess situation or film for this because not only is the cast all black, the director is Richard Norman. He's a white. He's a white filmmaker. But he seeks out an all black freedmen's town in Tatum's Oklahoma. So Richard Norman is. He's interesting because he's gonna always make aspirational films and he's always thinking about. He's always prioritizing black audiences as a white filmmaker. He's always prioritizing black audiences. He even says at one point, this is not for a white house. This is for like black theaters. And it has serves a double meaning because he's kind of being snarky because the Birth of a Nation showed at the White House. And so he's saying this is not for a white house. But he's also saying this is not for a white theater. So he's really clever with that. And he's bringing the all black cast to a historically all black town. And that's where he films Black Gold. And the narrative of that film is actually furthered by the fact that it actually was a town that experienced. That benefited from the oil industry in the 1920s. And although the film Black Gold is a lost film, so we don't really. We will never be able to see it unless somebody has it somewhere in their basement, but we'll never be able to see it. It actually is based on something that actually happened in the town. So he's bringing a really interesting history into the film as well.
- [29:39]
B
You mentioned, of course, that these were black casts, not necessarily black people behind the lens, but one person that was behind, behind and in front of the lens was Anita Bush. And I wanted to talk to. Talk about her in particular, because not only was she behind the lens, but she was. She was a woman also behind the lens. Talk about Anita Bush.
- [30:02]
A
Yeah. As I mentioned, my research for almost 10 years has been on the Black Chorus Girl. And so in all ways, I wanted to make sure that women were. Were. Were pedestals, I guess, or women were seen. I'll just say seen. Women were. Black women were seen in this exhibition. And so I wanted to highlight black women in as many ways as possible. And I mean, that's naturally just part of the way I do research, too. I kind of go based on the stories that don't get as much exposure, and then I work my way up. And so Anita Bush is. She's featured on the poster. She's featured as the little mother of color drama. That's how she's advertised in the Norman film. And Anita Bush is inspired by Bert Williams. She sees him on stage and she's very inspired by his talent. And she later owns the Anita Bush Stock company. It'll eventually be called the Lafayette Players. That's probably how most people will remember them. But she has the Anita Bush Stock Company and she becomes celebrated. And she's so celebrated that Richard Norman, actually, in addition to the poster saying the little mother of color drama, just to make sure people understand, these are talented people from theater that I'm bringing onto these, onto my race films. And, you know, Richard Norman is a director I could talk about for days because I think he had a very clear vision. And one thing I will say is, and I went to Norman Studios in Jacksonville, and it's supported by his family, and it's supported by the staff there that Richard Norman made sure to pay the talent. Well, he knew the value that these actors were bringing to these productions, and he knew that he had struck gold in A lot of ways. Talk about black gold, right? He struck black gold in a lot of ways because he had these talented casts, and he wanted to make sure that they were appreciated. And so I have a press book on display that has a full spread about the talent that is Anita Bush. For anyone who's able to come to the show, it's beautiful to read how revered she was and how appreciated she was by Richard Norman. And just the work that she did, even if we take the films out of the picture, just the work that she did in the theater industry, I think, is something to behold. And then she would later appear in the Bulldogger, another Norman Studios raised film.
- [32:46]
B
You talked about some of the films as being aspirational films. One of the things I was really interested to see and how it's laid out is I felt you could almost track. You could track what would have been important to audiences or intriguing to audiences in the. In the Zeitgeist, I guess, if you will, in. In Politics, policy, in the Zeitgeist, by the films that were being made at the time. Talk some about that in all of these.
- [33:21]
A
In my research, I realized it's not enough to just speak about, like, oh, this film was a film about this. It featured this person. And it was in this year, the year, the time period. The placement speaks to a larger history of black history in America. And I knew that I would be doing a disservice if not to properly capture that full scope of what was happening. And so. So you'll see, like, in the 1940s, you'll see posters that promote films that are speaking about the war effort and how black men who are drafted to the war or in the army, how they're seeing themselves as American. And there's like a messaging around that. It's almost as if to say, we're all American, but we know that there is a lot of racial aggression in the country because they say that black people are fighting two wars. And consistently, because we even see that the mid to late part of the 20th century. But even if we're just speaking about that early part of the 20th century, black people are fighting two wars. It's one on the home front and one overseas. And so there are a lot of parts of this exhibition that are, of course, about the stage and the screen. But these are humans. The actors are humans at the end of the day. And the people who are watching these films are humans. So if for a moment they're watching, you know, 50. 50 minutes of a topic, the minute they walk out of that theater, there's also world events, national events or local events happening. And I wanted to properly capture that through the curation of this exhibition.
- [35:22]
B
One of the other, it's not a theme for sure, but maybe thread is the right word that I noticed throughout in the posters is colorism also as it relates to screen and stage two. Talk a little bit about how that shows up in the exhibition.
- [35:44]
A
The colorism, the conversation around colorism is something that again, when I was first researching the black chorus girl, I instantly identified because you can't, you, you won't, you won't make it that far without seeing a poster, an advertisement, even oral histories or written histories, accounts that mention something about the complexion of the talent. And so the colorism and color caste systems remind us of internal racial barriers and inequities within the entertainment industry and elsewhere. Because even if we for just one second remove the entertainment industry out of it. When I was researching the chorus girl, I was looking at ads for like hats or for makeup or something like that. Anything around that fashioning of the chorus girl. And I was thinking about how they're marketing these to everyday people, everyday black women. And even that has these tones where you're like, you know, you will have like this lightning cream. Well, what are you? Lightning. And so even things like that remind us that there were like, there is a color caste system and there is something that is presentable or acceptable. When we look at the casting calls for some of these productions, especially on the stage, they'll make sure that the talent is a specific complexion. They'll use words like bronze or honey or sepia. And so you'll see language like that or high yellow, meaning the complexion is like a yellower complexion. And so there would be, there's this criteria for the chorus girl and the actor. I want to also mention that black men have this as a part of their barriers too because you'll see that some of the leading men in the films have a lighter complexion. And then some of the villain roles are dark skinned men or dark skinned people. Black people are put into more villain roles. So I felt like it was important not to shy away from that. It's a reality. It's a reality that even to we have to confront. And there is actually no better place to speak about it than a place where visual language is our mission. And so if visual language is our mission, then we have to speak about what our eyes are seeing or what the visual story tells us.
- [38:21]
B
One of the films I want you to talk about and the Posters I want you to talk about that you have is the Imitation of Light, which is a very storied film whose story is not over yet either. Talk a little bit about that one and the inclusion of that in the exhibition.
- [38:41]
A
Yes. So the Imitation of Life is one of three films that aren't technically considered race films. So I did have to think a little bit about what, why I wanted to include it in the show. But it didn't take long for I didn't need much convincing from myself to include it because especially after watching, watching the film. I watched both films, but after watching the original 1934 film, there are a few reasons why it's important to still put them in a show like this and to still at the very least have them in the conversation of race films. One of those reasons is because Freddie Washington and Louise Biebers are main characters in that film. Freddie Washington actually was also in the Emperor Jones and in that film she had to darken her face with makeup because menstrual makeup because she's a very light skinned, fair skinned black woman who by her own standards she never wanted to or never decided to racially pass. So this film the is actually the opposite of how she lived her actual life. She made it a point that everyone knew that she was a black woman and a proud black woman. And Louise Beavers is a star among stars. She is just this. Even on screen she captivates you. The emotional gravity of her performance is something to behold. And so I knew that the actresses themselves were going to convince me. But also the storyline confronts racial passing. So when we think about colorism, we're also thinking about the lived experiences of black folks who could possibly racially pass. And that's one of the main parts of the Imitation of Life. And so it's quite daring. And I say daring because it had its issues with censorship laws. Actually the Imitation of Life to add a story like that is daring because it's not enough to just tell that story. Now you have to figure out, oh, will this actually resonate with people and will it actually pass and will we actually even be able to show it? But I think it's important because most important, like of all the reasons to include it, the most important one was that our poster for the show is the re release of the film. In its original promotional materials, the white actors of the film are featured prominently on the poster. The black actors, if they're even seeing their kind of relegated to the margins, even in terms of like billing. On the poster we have the Re release where Luis Bieber's character and Freddie Washington's character are featured prominently on the poster and on the lobby card. And so I think by the time it's rereleased so that the poster is meant to mark at the rerelease in 1949 by that time. It's interesting to see who they're targeting. They're targeting probably like black theater goers or they're noticing that this story, the story that this film captures, really, truly is centered around Louise Beaver's and Freddie Washington's character. So that was the decision to include the Imitation of Life in the exhibition.
- [42:02]
B
And I think one or both of them was nominated for an Academy Award as well. They didn't win, but I think they were nominated. And also, the Imitation of Life is on its way back to Broadway as well.
- [42:19]
A
Oh, I didn't know that.
- [42:21]
B
Oh, yes. Fall of 26. Lynn Nottage is bringing it back to Broadway.
- [42:30]
A
Wow.
- [42:31]
B
Okay, well, okay, let me clarify. It's coming to the shed. So it's off Broadway, to clarify. Off Broadway, but still a very, you know, very. For listeners who are not in New York City, a very large, prominent theater,
- [42:47]
A
though not technically on Broadway, but the fact that it's even coming to New York in general, honestly, it can be in Central Park. I would see it because it's so powerful. And I'm wondering what changes are made or what developments are made or what additions they decide on. So that should be really, really interesting.
- [43:12]
B
I, I cannot wait for this. It's very, very exciting for all those reasons that, that you said. So I'm curious, as you were putting this exhibit together, what was. What surprised you? Talk about some of the things that maybe you, you, you. You thought it was going to be one thing or you thought you understood something and as it was come together, it turned out to be something else.
- [43:33]
A
I think what surprised there. There are two things that surprised me the most. I'll just, I'll speak about those two things because if I think about all the things that surprise me, we will be here all day. But the first thing I'll say on the more maybe upbeat side of things, Richard Norman probably surprised me the most again. I was lucky enough to go to Jacksonville and it's like the Norman Studios in Jacksonville, they're doing a great job too. They're renovating the space because it's something like the last silent film studio to still exist in its original structure or something like that. So they were able to refurbish the place and clean it up and get Some of the posters on display and get some of the props, the existing props on display. And you can see Richard Norman's desk. So I was able to visit. And by going there, I gained an understanding of. Of Richard Norman in a way that I don't think I would have been able to get just by reading about him. At a time when, you know, we're only a few years removed from the Birth of a Nation, and Richard Norman's first race film is the Green Eyed Monster that comes out in 1919. And so very early on, he's identifying two things he realizes he's good at. He's a good filmmaker because he had been making films with white cast, but also. And his family supports this. He also does see that the Birth of a Nation is very harmful in its messaging. And so to hear that, he had this awareness that black people should have a platform in these films, and he was gonna make them aspirational. He was gonna make a black person a railroad titan. He was gonna make a black woman want to be a pilot. Especially at a time where black people could not get their pilot's license in the United States. I thought that that was very. It was very surprising because for him to be a white filmmaker, I almost. I. It's almost something that I just couldn't wrap my head around, but I had to come to terms with, like, yeah, there are white filmmakers who probably still felt that it was valuable to tell these stories. And of course, there are black filmmakers who did it too. I'm not saying this to cast them aside, but. But the things that I was surprised about was a white filmmaker doing this. And then the second thing I was surprised about was the amount of films that are lost and the amount of films that survive to this day. Equally surprised. I had to watch a lot of them while writing the exhibition. And I'll save my own personal thoughts and opinions about each film. I have some that I adore. The Flying Ace is actually one of them, and Sunday Sinners is another one that I appreciate the storytelling around those two, but it's important because these are part of black history. So the ones that do survive, they're available to watch. And people like right now can go online and type in. If they see a poster of a film and they're curious about it, they can type right now online and see if it survives or not. And if it survives, they can just watch it. And I think that that's so surprising because one, if you don't even know that these things exist, like, where do you how do you start? Well, I'm hoping that the exhibition is where you start because now you know, it's out there. So now, you know, there's storytelling to be seen and some of these survive and then the ones that don't survive. We are so lucky that the posters can tell the story or the posters can fill in that space in history where it's like, you know, we don't know if this existed. Well, we know it existed. We might not have the film, but we do have the poster that can tell us, give us a glimpse of what that story was.
- [47:30]
B
And you may have just answered this question, at least in part. But you know, for people that can get to the exhibit, what do you hope they take away from it?
- [47:41]
A
This exhibition is a deep dive into history. And although we have to confront a lot of like troubling and chilling moments in history, as we started things off by even thinking about blackface and Uncle Tom's Cabin, we ultimately see that the space was carved out for black actors and actresses and chorus girls and musicians and directors. And this is during a time where blackness is being co opted and blackness is being relegated to the margins and blackness is being warped in violent ways. And that's why I begin the exhibition with the Langston Hughes poem, because it points to that violence and it points to that frustration. But ultimately that history gives us a glimpse of light. It shines even the smallest light onto something that some people don't even know existed. And I've always said that I want this exhibition to be a celebration of sorts because to know that posters survive and to know that people would go to the, to the movies. You know, there's like this thing about like during the Great Depression, the number of, the number of the, the people didn't stop watching movies during the Great Depression. And so during the Great Depression people didn't just stop watching these so called race films. People continued to watch this. During the Great Migration, people continued to watch this, these, these race films. During the war, people continue to watch these race films and the plays continue to be restructured and reworked to fit modern audiences. So there is a celebration. We just said that the Imitation of Life, though not a play, is coming back and Porgy and Bess was just at the opera, I was able to see it. This is something that, you know, this is a mid 20th century telling and we're able to see it in. Well, I saw it in 20. Well, I actually saw it at the top of the year 2026. So we're still able to see These works. And so I want visitors to take all of that away from this exhibition and to know that all of these topics are treated with care, with sensitivity. But it's okay to say, wow, there was a moment in time where these things existed, and in some ways they were celebrated. And I also want to add that one of our lenders, the Black Cannon, their father started collecting these when he was really young. I want to say, like six, or even just really young. And they're one of the. Then when he unfortunately passed, his collection goes to his son and daughter. And through that connection, I was able to support the exhibition with all of these posters. So even a family history alone can tell the story of these posters. They, the black, can even tell the story of, like, putting up a bed sheet to, like, project these films to the community, because you couldn't see these at major theaters in a lot of ways. So I say all that to say that's what I want visitors to take away from this exhibition.
- [50:56]
B
Okay, well, so for our listeners as well.
- [51:00]
A
Right.
- [51:01]
B
Our listeners are readers, too. So can you recommend some books for people that maybe. Maybe don't know a whole lot about what you've been talking about, but really want to learn more?
- [51:12]
A
Yes. One topic we didn't fully get to dive into in this chat was the history of black Westerns with the black cowboys and cowgirls. And so I would recommend Black A History of the African American Western. I would also recommend Bricktops, Paris, African American Women in Paris between the Two World Wars. Though that book is set in Paris. That's the first book that really helped me, introduced me to black chorus girls that I didn't know of. So I approached that book thinking that I knew a lot of black chorus girls. But that book mentions a lot of black chorus girls that are black American who go to Paris. So I want to spotlight that ragged but right black traveling shows, coon shows, and the dark pathway to blues and jazz. That's a book. I guess the title kind of says what that's about. But I think that's really helpful in understanding how music plays a really important role in these black and these minstrel shows and traveling shows. And then I think the last one I want to mention is Migrating to the Movies, Cinema and Black Urban modernity. It's important to know that the actors are, of course, a big part of the story, but the audiences are also a big part of the story. Black audiences going to the theaters to see these movies and other films. So in all of that, I want us to remember that the everyday person is still an active part of this story.
- [53:03]
B
Okay, thank you for that. And I can't wait to check out some of those. Check out those books as well. So listeners, if you are in and around New York City between the time we are recording this in May of 2026 and September 6th of 2026, stop by poster House and check out the exhibition for yourself. There are also several exhibitions exhibition related discussions scheduled throughout the show's run, both at the museum as well as virtually. If you're listening from outside of New York City, there's more about the exhibition on the Bloomberg Connects app as well. While the exhibition is on view. And if you're listening to this after September 2026, fear not, poster House keeps a virtual archive of all of its exhibitions on its website, posterhouse.org you can check those out at any time. The links to all this are in the show notes. You have been listening to Additions to the Archive with Sullivan Summer, a new Books Network podcast. I am your host Sullivan Summer. If you like what you heard like, follow, subscribe and drop us a rating on your favorite podcast app. We're on Instagram additionstothearxive and we're free over on substack2 where you can find more great author interviews as well as the reading list that Espranza Jones just shared with us, as well as related episodes that we've done here at Additions to the Archive that talk about many of the things that Esperanza just talked about as well. Thank you for listening to Additions to the Archive.