Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Facing Infinity: Black Holes and Our Place on Earth
Host: Dr. Christina Gessler
Guest: Dr. Jonas Anander
Date: November 13, 2025

This episode explores Dr. Jonas Anander's book, Facing Infinity: Black Holes and Our Place on Earth. The discussion weaves together the latest scientific understanding of black holes, the human stories behind astronomical discoveries, and an intriguing look at how cosmic mysteries shape our sense of existence on Earth. The conversation moves from accessible explanations of formidable physics to the philosophical and even practical implications of black hole research, including surprising connections to climate science and navigation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Dr. Anander’s Journey into Science (01:42-03:58)

• Background: Born in Stockholm, now living near the Polar Circle in Sweden; originally a physicist focusing on cosmology, general relativity, and dark matter before transitioning to science journalism and communication.
• Inspiration: Did not have an early calling for science; became interested through documentaries and a curiosity about life on other planets in his early twenties.
  • Quote: “Sometimes you don't know in advance where your life is going to take you.” — Dr. Anander (03:40)

2. Inspiration Behind the Book (04:18-05:24)

• Catalyst: Seeing the first-ever direct image of a black hole by the Event Horizon Telescope in 2019 moved him to investigate and write about black holes both as physical phenomena and as human stories.
  • Quote: “When I saw that image, I felt that this is something I want to learn more about... and really understand what do black holes mean for us as humans here on Earth.” — Dr. Anander (04:18)

3. Black Holes Explained for Non-scientists (05:43-07:41)

• Definition: “A place in the universe where gravity is so strong that nothing, not even light, can escape it.” (06:01)
• Common Myth: Black holes do not “suck everything in” like cosmic vacuum cleaners; outside their immediate proximity, gravity behaves just as it would for any other object of the same mass.
  • Quote: “Black holes are not cosmic vacuum cleaners.” — Christina Gessler (07:21 referencing p. 88)

4. The Historical Roots: John Mitchell and “Dark Stars” (11:27-16:27)

• Mitchell’s Story: 18th-century English clergyman-scientist; speculated that certain stars could be so dense that even light could not escape—in effect predicting black holes using Newtonian physics.
• Evolution of the Idea: “It was the first idea that maybe there can be this kind of completely dark objects out there in space.” — Dr. Anander (14:48)
• Human Side: Mitchell’s life intertwined with love, loss, wars, and the challenges of working in isolation, highlighting the persistent and human aspect of scientific inquiry.

5. Science Amid Hardship and the March of Discovery (17:54-19:17)

• Discoveries are shaped by their social and historical contexts—wars, societal upheavals, personal misfortunes.
  • “It’s not possible really to isolate the mind of the scientist from the rest of the society and the life of the scientist from the rest of the society.” — Dr. Anander (18:53)
• The recognition and validation of scientific theories, like black holes, can take centuries (e.g., Nobel Prize in 2020 confirming John Mitchell’s ideas from the 1700s).

6. Einstein: Genius and Rebellion (21:09-26:44)

• Einstein’s Path: Not a model student, worked at the patent office; his curiosity about time and space led to revolutionary insights.
• Breakthrough: “Time and space are relative.” The flow of time and measurement of distance change with motion and gravity.
  • Quote: “There’s no universal clock... On the contrary, time and space change their properties depending on how fast you move and also where you are in a gravitational field.” — Dr. Anander (22:49)
• Practical Impact: This foundational understanding paved the way to modern black hole theory.

7. The Mathematics: Karl Schwarzschild and the First Black Hole Solution (27:32-31:55)

• While stationed on the WWI front, Schwarzschild solved Einstein's equations, giving the first modern mathematical description of black holes.
• Ironically, Schwarzschild did not fully grasp the implications; the discovery was theoretical long before observational evidence.
  • Quote: “With black holes, it’s the opposite. First we have encountered the mathematics... and people doubted for a long time, can this really exist in nature?” — Dr. Anander (30:51)

8. What is Redshift? (33:08-36:02)

• Redshift in astronomy is akin to the Doppler effect in sound and is crucial to understanding objects near black holes.
• As light escapes the immense gravity of a black hole, its energy diminishes, meaning we see “less” of what’s happening close to or inside a black hole.
  • “It’s not only that light can’t escape them, it’s also that the light escapes them... becomes so extremely weak.” — Dr. Anander (35:31)

9. The Limits of Knowledge (36:02-37:08)

• Acknowledgement: “Most physicists studying them have felt [uncertainty] at some point or another.” (36:07)
• Black holes place fundamental limits on what can ever be known, posing profound philosophical challenges.

10. Telescopes: Peering into the Unknown (37:08-40:46)

• Observations: Scientists use telescopes to track the motion of stars around black holes, as pioneered by Andrea Ghez (US) and Reinhard Genzel (Germany).
• Persistence: Ghez’s repeated applications for telescope time illustrate the human determination behind scientific breakthroughs.
  • “In science you always need a verification. You always need someone else to check your result and also criticize result and question it.” — Dr. Anander (39:27)

11. Cosmic Discovery and Everyday Relevance: Black Holes & Climate Change (42:39-47:13)

• Unexpected Connection: The fixed positions of quasars (light from matter orbiting supermassive black holes) allow scientists to create the International Celestial Reference Frame, crucial for precision navigation and even measuring Earth’s continental drift and subtle sea-level changes.
  • “Of all the animals on the planet, which one...uses distant quasars to better understand their surroundings?” — Dr. Anander (46:12)
• Reflection: Despite technological prowess, humanity struggles to care for Earth. The book points to a poignant disconnect between our understanding and our stewardship.
  • Quote: “I’m struck by how, despite this detailed understanding of our planet, we’re unable to take care of it.” — Dr. Anander (47:44, p. 241)

12. Are We Living in a Black Hole? (48:42-50:59)

• The idea that our universe could be inside a black hole is examined, with the conclusion that current math and observations do not support the idea.
  • “From what we can say till today, I don’t think the universe is a black hole. No.” — Dr. Anander (49:54)

13. Broader Reflections and Final Thoughts (51:45-52:48)

• Humanizing Science: The book aims to spark curiosity, not just about black holes but about the human endeavor behind science.
  • “We are fragile, vain human beings that often fight not only for knowledge, but also prestige... But what’s so amazing about it is that out of this struggle... comes what you could call objective knowledge about the universe.” — Dr. Anander (51:56)
• Invitation: The book and episode invite listeners to embrace scientific curiosity and recognize the great adventure of knowledge.

Memorable Quotes and Timestamps

• “Sometimes you don't know in advance where your life is going to take you.”
  — Dr. Anander (03:40)

• “When I saw that image, I felt that this is something I want to learn more about... and really understand what do black holes mean for us as humans here on Earth.”
  — Dr. Anander (04:18)

• “Black holes are not cosmic vacuum cleaners.”
  — Christina Gessler referencing Dr. Anander (07:21)

• “It’s not possible really to isolate the mind of the scientist from the rest of the society and the life of the scientist from the rest of the society.”
  — Dr. Anander (18:53)

• “Time and space change their properties depending on how fast you move and also where you are in a gravitational field.”
  — Dr. Anander (22:49)

• “With black holes, it’s the opposite. First we have encountered the mathematics... and people doubted for a long time, can this really exist in nature?”
  — Dr. Anander (30:51)

• “We have such an enormous technological capacity and we understand so many things, but still we’re not capable of drawing the right conclusions from that and making the right adjustments to take care of our world.”
  — Dr. Anander (47:44)

• “From what we can say till today, I don’t think the universe is a black hole. No.”
  — Dr. Anander (49:54)

• “We are fragile, vain human beings that often fight not only for knowledge, but also prestige...”
  — Dr. Anander (51:56)

Notable Moments by Timestamp

| Timestamp | Segment | Description | |-----------|---------|-------------| | 03:40 | Dr. Anander's Path | Discovery of his calling for science | | 04:18 | Book Inspiration | 2019's black hole image sparks the project | | 07:21 | Myth Busting | “Not cosmic vacuum cleaners” explained | | 14:48 | Historical Science | Mitchell's “dark star” concept | | 18:53 | Science & Society | The unseparated lives of scientists and world events | | 22:49 | Einstein’s Relativity | Time and space's relativity and connection to black holes | | 30:51 | Mathematical Black Holes | Theoretical precedes observational in black hole discovery | | 35:31 | Redshift | Why light near black holes is so difficult to detect | | 39:27 | Science Verification | Independent teams working on the Milky Way's black hole | | 46:12 | Human Ingenuity | Using quasars for earthly measurements | | 47:44 | Reflection | Our inability to care for Earth despite scientific advances | | 49:54 | Universe-in-a-Black-Hole | Dismissing the "living in a black hole" hypothesis | | 51:56 | Science’s Human Drama | The human story in scientific discovery |

Closing Reflection

Dr. Jonas Anander’s Facing Infinity and this podcast episode turn the mysterious, often intimidating subject of black holes into a multifaceted reflection on science, history, and humanity. By situating discoveries amid wars, personal struggles, and the daily grind, the episode demystifies both the cosmos and the people who study it. It ends not just with a call to scientific curiosity, but a gentle reminder of our shared responsibility for Earth—inviting listeners to join the knowledge adventure, and to apply humanity’s grandest insights toward the stewardship of our only home.