Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Gaoheng Zhang, "Italian Dumplings and Chinese Pizzas: Transcultural Food Mobilities" (Fordham UP, 2025)
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Gaoheng Zhang
Date: January 31, 2026

Overview

This episode explores Dr. Gaoheng Zhang’s new book, Italian Dumplings and Chinese Pizzas: Transcultural Food Mobilities. The discussion examines the dynamic movement of food traditions between China and Italy, highlighting the transcultural exchanges that shape concepts of authenticity, identity, and culinary innovation. Through historical analysis, personal anecdotes, and cultural criticism, Dr. Zhang and Dr. Melcher probe topics such as migration, evolving stereotypes, the hybridization of cuisines, and the power of media in framing public understanding of “ethnic” food.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Author’s Background and Motivation

• Introduction
  • Dr. Gaoheng Zhang is an associate professor of Italian Studies at the University of British Columbia specializing in Sino-Italian cultural exchanges. He has researched both Chinese migration to Italy and Italian migration to China. (03:01)
  • Motivation:
    • Pragmatic: The publisher suggested separating a larger manuscript on food, fashion, etc., into separate books, allowing greater depth.
    • Intellectual: Recognized from conversations a unique opportunity in combining Chinese and Italian food studies due to their global popularity and intersecting stories.

    “I realized that there is a research opportunity there combining food, Italian food and Chinese food in one book, and help the reader understand that, in fact, you know, two of the world's most popular food traditions have intersecting stories to tell, very interesting stories to tell.” (04:38)

2. Framework: Food Mobilities

• Key Concept:
  • Food mobilities refers to the movement of foods, peoples, and culinary ideas across borders and through media.
  • Three layers:
    1. Physical movement (e.g., Neapolitan pizza in China)
    2. Human migration (immigrants and their cuisines)
    3. Cultural/media movement (culinary discourse in media and online) (06:00–08:36)
  • “For me, most importantly in this book, the level of meaning of food mobilities is that it's a media and cultural mobility... people, yes, they eat it in the restaurant, but they also talk about it in the food blog or... on social media.” (07:41)

3. History of Chinese Food Entrepreneurship in Italy

• Early Developments:
  • First formal Chinese restaurant in Rome, 1949; likely informal eateries since the 1920s and 1930s as smaller migration began from elsewhere in Europe. (09:15–12:00)
  • Major migration waves in the 1980s post-China’s “open door” policy fueled restaurant growth.
  • Diversity appeared in the types of Chinese restaurants, often focusing on seafood or simple food for busy workers, reflecting many migrants’ origins in coastal Zhejiang province.
  • SARS crisis in 2003 led to discrimination and closures, ending a phase of prosperity. (13:38)

4. Post-SARS Evolution and Diversification

• Shifts after 2003:
  • Many Chinese entrepreneurs pivoted to open “Pan-Asian,” Japanese, and later Korean restaurants, leveraging changing Italian perceptions (perceived Japanese cuisine hierarchy, higher prices). (14:59–17:24)
  • Chinese migrants also became owners of Italian espresso bars, as generational shifts led native Italians away from labor-intensive businesses. Deals were often made in cash, beneficial for Italian sellers.

    “...many of the Italian espresso coffee bars in Italy now are managed by Chinese migrants. And that is a heritage from the SARS crisis...” (17:44–19:05) "[An Italian coffee shop owner] said: 'mi vendo'... she was suggesting that she would sell the coffee shop to me." (19:38)

• Student Influence:
  • Influx of Chinese international students (via Marco Polo & Turandot programs in the 2000s/2010s) created new demand for more authentic Chinese food in Italy and led to a new generation of young Chinese food entrepreneurs. (20:41–24:43)
  • Many enter food business due to limited employment pathways in their trained fields.

5. Media, Stereotypes, and Popular Representations

• Role of Media/Cultural Products:
  • Most Italians/Chinese don’t interact directly; knowledge is mediated by film, menus, graphic novels, and especially social media.
  • Dog Meat Stereotype:
    • Italian suspicion about Chinese people eating dog meat is traced to American popular culture, which shaped Italian media portrayals.

      “...the Italian stereotype, and let’s say performance of this stereotype derives energy, rhetorical energy from the American context...” (29:18)

    • Zhang argues it is less a genuine belief than a cultural tool to emphasize difference and justify exclusion:

      “...this stereotype must have served a cultural purpose... to distinguish the European towns from the ethnic Chinese...” (31:00)

  • Regulatory and hygienic realities make actual dog meat consumption in Italy almost impossible.

6. Chinese Tourists’ Culinary Repertoires in Italy

• Two Repertoires:
  • (i) Hybridized (Pizza Hut model):
    • Older Chinese consumers’ ideas of Italian food shaped by localized, hybrid offerings (e.g., Pizza Hut China, which presents adapted “Italian” food – lots of unique toppings, sit-down service).
  • (ii) Aspiring Authenticity:
    • Wealthier/elite consumers exposed to higher-end Italian restaurants opened in China since 2000s; seek out more “authentic” Italian experiences (imported ingredients, higher standards) when traveling.

    “...for the upper middle Chinese consumers who have the economic capital, and I would say also the cultural capital to appreciate Italian food's authenticity, they would have another type of culinary repertoire...” (36:42–37:53)

7. Transculturality and Hybridization

• Core Message:
  • The transcultural process isn’t about “comparison” to an authentic standard but about recognizing and appreciating the creative hybridizations born of migration and adaptation.

    “They really transform these culinary traditions... It’s good for all of us to kind of appreciate this transformation and to enjoy this hybridized and transcultural phenomenon...” (39:03–39:38) “To appreciate the more transcultural and hybridized food tradition is a challenge for us, especially... from more kind of established communities where foreign food traditions are not present all the time.” (40:19)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Pizza Hut’s impact:

  “...when you go to a Pizza Hut restaurant in China, you'll notice that first of all, it's a sit down restaurant, unlike those in North America. Second of all, you will see lots of toppings on pizzas that are very Chinese or a combination of Chinese and Western traditions.” (34:07)

• On Chinese entrepreneurship in Italian coffee bars:

  “Coffee bars today owned by Chinese people are so widespread for a reason.” (20:22)

• On why stereotypes persist:

  “The reason why the stereotypes persist has to have a cultural purpose which is inflected by politics and these other things as well.” (32:31)

• On transcultural appreciation:

  “...to appreciate the more transcultural and hybridized food tradition is a challenge for us.” (40:19) “Things can be viewed in different ways and things can be very interesting this way.” (41:16)

Important Timestamps

• 03:01 – Zhang’s background and why he wrote the book
• 06:00 – Framework of “food mobilities”
• 09:15 – Early history of Chinese restaurants and migratory flows in Italy
• 14:59 – Post-SARS diversification (Pan-Asian, Japanese, coffee bars)
• 20:41 – Influence of Chinese international students on Italian culinary scene
• 27:27 – Role of media and persistent stereotypes (e.g., dog meat)
• 33:11 – Culinary repertoires of Chinese tourists in Italy
• 38:49 – The book’s overarching message on transcultural transformation

Preview: Zhang’s Next Project

• Investigating architecture and residence between Italy and China, including the proliferation of Venice replicas in China and public memorials to Chinese migrants in Italian cities. (41:42)

Conclusion

Dr. Zhang’s book and this episode urge listeners to approach food traditions not with a binary “authentic/fake” mindset, but as living, hybrid, transcultural dynamics shaped by migration, media, and everyday adaptation. The story of “Italian dumplings” and “Chinese pizzas” is, ultimately, a story of human creativity, negotiation, and evolving identities.