New Books Network: A Protest History of the United States – Gloria J. Browne-Marshall Revisited

Host: Sullivan Sommer
Guest: Gloria J. Browne-Marshall
Date: February 8, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode revisits A Protest History of the United States with scholar, attorney, playwright, and professor Gloria J. Browne-Marshall. Against the backdrop of ongoing, real-time protests in the U.S., the discussion focuses on the chapter “Protesting Violent Policing” and draws connections between historical and contemporary patterns of protest, law enforcement abuses, race, immigration, and the Constitution. The episode also explores the relationship between labor, borders, and the weaponization of legal powers in American history.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Echoes of the Past: Baldwin and Enduring Protest

Timestamp: 02:34–07:50

• On James Baldwin’s Perspective
  Gloria recounts seeing James Baldwin on TV as a child and credits him as her “spiritual mentor.” She explains how Baldwin’s insights into American violence and racism remain painfully relevant today:

  “This country fails to keep the lessons it learns, that we've been here before, and yet generations will keep rising up…when progress is made, there's always going to be another side that's clamoring to take things back to where they felt more comfortable in a sense of superiority.” (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 04:53)

• Community and the Limits of Protest
  She warns against letting “anger” devolve into resembling the forces opposed:

  “…we will not step over the line and become the enemy or what we see in the people we're opposing…then we lose the sense of what we're fighting for.” (06:58)

2. Law Enforcement’s Genesis and Elite Power

Timestamp: 07:50–16:47

• Roots in Hierarchy
  Gloria traces modern policing back to colonial America, connecting its ethos to class and race-based systems of discipline—the overseer, bounty hunter, and later the police as tools of elite order:

  “Now they become this organized force called policing in which they are there not just to maintain order for order's sake, but maintain the order dictated by the elite.” (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 11:34)

• Lack of National Reform
  Despite reforms in voting and civil rights, she emphasizes:

  “Law enforcement is one area of American life that has seen no true reform on a national level.” (15:12)

3. Militarization and the Illusion of Reform

Timestamp: 16:47–22:11

• Militarization Trends
  Discussion covers the expansion of police militarization since the Clinton administration and the formation of Homeland Security.

  • Sullivan notes: “I think in my lifetime…there’s been one major change, which would be the Department of Homeland Security, which was also added.” (16:57)

• Superficial Changes, Unmet Needs
  Gloria is critical of symbolic changes (e.g., police cameras, national holidays):

  “When we received Juneteenth as a national holiday, I wanted major criminal justice reform. That's what I was seeking. And we got Juneteenth instead.” (19:17)

• Federal Action Necessity
  On the need for robust federal reform akin to the Voting Rights Act:

  “…widespread reform we need with policing to stop having over a thousand people a year die at the hands of police…it's still happening, and the number is increasing.” (21:40)

4. Immigration, Labor, and the Cycle of Criminalization

Timestamp: 22:11–28:42

• Historical Pattern
  The U.S. repeatedly invites immigrant labor, then criminalizes and scapegoats those same workers during economic shifts.

  “We want the labor, but we don't want their citizenship and we don't want them to become naturalized citizens.” (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 27:02)

• Case Study: Chinese Americans and the Exclusion Act
  She draws a direct line from 19th-century Chinese railroad workers to present struggles, outlining exclusion, violence, and denial of citizenship.

• Generational Analysis
  Gloria stresses her approach:

  “I like to study generational actions. I like to see the pattern and practice over time.” (27:35)

5. The Constitution: Power, Personhood, and Protest

Timestamp: 28:42–34:20

• Annotated Constitution Project
  Gloria explains her annotated edition, focusing on people of color’s fight for rights:

  “I believe that African Americans put the conscience into the Constitution. And I think that because the cases that are brought, mainly by people of color…you see that people didn't sit back. They said, I'm going to use law.” (29:35)

• 14th Amendment, Birthright, and All Persons
  She details how the 14th Amendment protects not just citizens but “all persons”—including undocumented people:

  “As long as you cross into the borders of this country, you are protected by the due process clause.” (32:51)

6. Jimmie Lee Jackson: Protest, Martyrdom, and Lessons for Today

Timestamp: 35:12–37:04

• Gloria reads from her book about Jackson, whose killing after a peaceful voting rights protest prompted the Selma marches:

  “He was unarmed in Selma and had just led a protest for the right to vote when law enforcement beat his parents and gunned him down…As evening fell, the street lights were shut off, leaving the marchers prey to a calculated attack by police with nightsticks.” (35:21)

• Ongoing Vulnerabilities in Protest
  She highlights the persistent risks faced by protestors, especially after dark, and the compounded dangers of law enforcement anonymity and federal enablement:

  “I'm always aware that any protest, no matter how small, in broad daylight, comes with it a sense of danger…When the sun goes down, I'm always frightened…You don't know who's going to infiltrate your protest. You don't know what law enforcement is going to do.” (37:18)

7. State, Local, and Federal Law Enforcement: Rights and Disparities

Timestamp: 41:10–48:01

• State vs. Federal Protections
  Through the story of Dorae Mapp and the Map v. Ohio case, Gloria explores how constitutional protections (like the exclusionary rule) expanded to states but erosion continues through judicial discretion and expanding law enforcement power.

  “Judges still have a great deal of discretion…there's been too much of a wink and a nod giving law enforcement more and more expansion of what they consider their authority to keep order.” (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 43:21)

• Danger of Complacency
  Gloria warns how rights—gained at great cost—can be quickly eroded without vigilance:

  “…it had to go through the evolution of protest. But do not believe, because it is with us today, it's going to stay with us…If we become complacent, we could lose these rights that took so long for us to gain.” (46:54)

8. Contemporary Context: ICE Deaths, Numbness, and the Cost of Denial

Timestamp: 48:01–56:07

• Death Toll and Devaluation
  The chapter spans from 17th-century policing to the named victims of today, noting that in January 2026 alone, nine people died in ICE custody.

• On National Amnesia and Dehumanization
  Gloria discusses the danger of becoming numb to the state's violence, especially against immigrants and people of color.

  “We have so many homegrown criminals, so many homegrown murderers…And it just reminds me too much of the civil rights movement when it was thought that we could kill black people…their lives have been devalued and they should not get the protections under law that they deserve.” (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 50:18)

• Urgency for Accountability
  She warns of the dangers of unaccountable, increasingly rogue law enforcement and the complicity of law and social institutions.

  “How much carnage is going to have to take place in order for the killings to stop. And who are those people who are going to pay the price?” (50:58)

• On Protest, Community, and Hope
  Gloria finds hope in protest as a means of reigniting community, empathy, and values—but insists the struggle is precarious and ongoing.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Protest and Individual Responsibility

  “As this chronic disease goes forward, that we realize this is something that will be with us in this country…as we battle these forces, let's not become them.”
  (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 06:35)

• On the Value of Law and Reform

  “Law can also be a tool for liberation. But law is so often used as a weapon of oppression.”
  (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 09:24)

• On Federal Reform

  “The federal legislation I'm talking about has to have more teeth, has to go deeper. And once again, since we have 18,000 police jurisdictions, it's got to be federal legislation that…must reach into the states and into the local jurisdictions, very much like the Voting Rights Act.”
  (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 20:35)

• On American Amnesia

  “We wake up and think it's always been here. We wake up and think same sex marriage has always been here. But once again, it had to go through the evolution of protest.”
  (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 46:23)

• On Dehumanization and State Violence

  “It just reminds me too much of the civil rights movement when it was thought that we could kill black people and those whites who stood up, like Reverend Reeb, who stood up for people of color, we could kill them…Their lives have been devalued and they should not get the protections under law that they deserve.”
  (Gloria J. Browne-Marshall, 50:18)

Important Timestamps

• James Baldwin’s Continued Legacy – 02:34–07:50
• Origins of American Policing & Stratification – 07:50–16:47
• Militarization vs. Reform – 16:47–22:11
• Labor, Immigration, and Criminalization Cycle – 22:11–28:42
• Constitutional Literacy and Rights for All Persons – 28:42–34:20
• Jimmie Lee Jackson; Risk in Protest – 35:12–37:04
• Differences in Federal/State Policing – 41:10–48:01
• Pattern of Violence, Devaluation, and Protest’s Fragile Gains – 48:01–56:07

Final Reflections

Gloria J. Browne-Marshall connects the persistent, cyclical nature of American law enforcement violence and protest from the nation’s earliest days to the present, arguing for deep, structural reform and renewed civic engagement. She urges vigilance, historical consciousness, and solidarity amid renewed threats—warning that rights lost are hard-won and easily eroded, and the fight for justice is perennial.

Book:
A Protest History of the United States (Beacon Press, 2026), now in paperback.
Contact/Follow:

• Gloria J. Browne-Marshall: gloria@brownmarshall23.com, Instagram @Marshall
• Host Sullivan Sommer: sullivansommer.com, Instagram @theSullivanSommer, Substack OlympusSummer