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Greg Soden, "Unscripted Moments: Conversations with Propagandhi (2020-2025)" (Earth Island Books, 2025)
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A
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B
Hello everybody, this is Marshall Po. I'm the founder and editor of the New Books Network and if you're listening to this, you know that the NBN is the largest academic podcast network in the world. We reach a worldwide audience of 2 million people. You may have a podcast or you may be thinking about starting a podcast. As you probably know, there are challenges basically of two kinds. One is technical. There are things you have to know in order to get your podcast produced and distributed. And the second is, and this is the biggest problem, you need to get an audience. Building an audience in podcasting is the hardest thing to do today. With this in mind mind, we at the NBM have started a service called NBN Productions. What we do is help you create a podcast, produce your podcast, distribute your podcast, and we host your podcast. Most importantly, what we do is we distribute your podcast to the NBN audience. We've done this many times with many academic podcasts and we would like to help you. If you would be interested in talking to us about how we can help you with your podcast, please contact us. Just go to the front page of the New Books Network and you will see a link to NBN Productions. Click that, fill out the form and we can talk. Welcome. Welcome to the New Books Network.
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C
I'm Caleb Zakrin, editor of the New Books Network. Today I'm speaking with Greg Soden, a longtime NBN host and scholar of religion and music. We're discussing his latest book, Unscripted conversations of Propagandi 2020-2025, published by Earth Island Books. What began originally as a podcast about the band has been transformed into a book. Known for its punk sound and politically charged lyrics, Propagandi is approaching its 40 year anniversary to introduce listeners to the legendary Canadian band. I'm thrilled to have Greg on the podcast. Greg, thanks for joining me today on the New Books Network.
- [02:11]
D
Thank you so much for the invitation. I really appreciate being here in the guest seat as opposed to the host seat for once.
- [02:18]
C
Yeah, it's definitely different. But I'm glad to have you with this book. I think it's always fun to meet someone that, that also, you know, loves punk music. Propagandu is a band where I actually have learned about them because I kept on seeing people for some reason wearing Propagandi T shirts. And I just was so intrigued by the name because it's like one of the best band names ever I've ever heard. So that's how I found them randomly. So I feel like the old fashioned way. Band T shirt.
- [02:49]
D
Yeah, it's kind of a cool little portmanteau, which is like a combination of the word propaganda and obviously Gandhi, the famous person in history. They came up with the name when they were in high school. And I think that if you ask the band if they liked it, they might not be quite as thrilled about it, you know, 40 years on. But it's definitely a band that. Where the name has come to mean a lot to a lot of people and it's a small audience worldwide. I mean, they're, they're a popular band, but they're not like a super popular band. So the people that love them love them tremendously. And I'm one of those people.
- [03:31]
C
And I think oftentimes, you know, cult. These bands with cult followings or any artists with a cult following, what's great about it is that, you know, they really do have that relationship, you know, with the listeners. And, you know, what's great about, about what you've done is like, you really did get to, you know, talk with the, with the band members and, and get real, you know, up close. So, you know, I was wondering if you just tell us a little about what first drew you to the band and how did you come to the idea of, you know, creating a podcast and then ultimately a book.
- [04:01]
D
So this band has been a tremendously important band in my life, dating back to the late 90s. I was in punk bands in middle school and high school mostly as a drummer, and I was meeting up with these guys who were in the local St. Louis punk scene in the late 90s. And we were just chatting in a parking lot, trading demo tapes between our bands, thinking about playing a show together in St. Louis. And I was like, what's your favorite band? And one of the guys said, oh, it's Propagandi. And it was a name that stuck in my head immediately. So then a few months later, I was at this guy's house who had a studio in his basement and my band was recording and he had a propaganda cd, how to Clean Everything. Their first album, sitting on the coffee table. And it's a long running joke on the podcast that I don't know if I stole it or if he gave it to me, I just can't remember. But that was my first album and my first exposure to them, so I immediately was hooked. I thought that they were incredible off the bat. And then they were building up this long awaited third record, Today's Empire's Tomorrow's Ashes, in 2001, and I was downloading stuff illegally on Limewire and Napster, like everybody back then. And I kept finding advance songs that were going to be on the upcoming record. And I was so obsessed with how good they were because they went from being a really melodic punk band to being way more thrashy and almost metallic in nature. So there was a sonic shift between their 1996 and 2001 records that took me along for the ride and I was immediately hooked. So that's kind of my backstory. And over the years they just were an ever present favorite band of mine. And then during the Pandemic, like so many other people, I was at home. I was a little unhappy with my life in general at the time and. And I just needed something to kind of break me out of a rut. And I was listening to other song by song podcasts, my favorite one being as you were, a podcast about Alkaline Trio. And I was like, is there one of these about propaganda? And there was not. So I said to my friend Keith, do you want to do a attempt to do a propaganda song by song podcast? And so we decided that we were going to give it a shot and if we didn't like the output, we would not release it. But we felt good about it and we did it and it kind of took off and it became a. We built an audience pretty quickly and that's kind of where it came out. It came out of that everybody's at home sort of thing. But five years later, I'm still doing it and it's been a pretty, pretty good time.
- [06:36]
C
For those who haven't heard the band, can you describe their sound evolution? Because obviously 40 years is a extremely long time. Like that's like Rolling Stones numbers.
- [06:46]
D
Yeah. They started in rural Manitoba in Canada in 1986. These two guys, Chris Hannah and George Samuleski, who are still in the band to this day, they grew up around each other, being aware of each other, playing hockey together. And then they kind of Bonded over Chris's love of metal and Jord's love of punk. So the metal and the punk crossover was really there from the very beginning with those guys. And they put out a record, they put out some demos and some albums on Fat Records in the mid-1990s, which is really famous for the fat record sound of that double time drums that is really prevalent among other bands like no Use for Name, Bad Religion, no Effects, Pennywise. But Propagandis was always a little different in that they weren't a straight up bar chord, power cord band with the same, you know, style of. Of like guitar playing. They were a lot more intricate. Chris Hannah, the guitar player of the band, was very inspired by Canadian thrash bands like Razor and Voivod and Sacrifice, but also Slayer and Metallica and Megadeth. So they had a. A slightly lighter guitar tone than a lot of those thrash bands. But they were playing these super complicated riffs on guitar over a slightly varied form of the punk beat. Where a lot of bands would do like a boom bop boom boom bop with that second beat between the snare hits as a double. But Propaganda, you did the more classic boom bop boop bop boop bop on the drums. So there was a slightly more thrashy feel to it because that's like the kind of drum beat that the thrash bands would do. So they didn't have that extra kick on the drums and they had more intricate riffs on the guitars. So. So they had a crossover between punk and metal that really flourished whenever they added a more metallically oriented bass player, Todd Kowalski from a band called I spy in late 1996. And then they were able to become more of what they originally intended the band to be with a bass player that now had the same metallic sensibilities that the band was striving for. So a little bit of member changes, a little bit of time went by, a little bit of getting better at their instruments. And they went from being a band that was very notable for the Fat Wreck, like almost like no effectsy style sound to being way more of a fast ripping metallic hardcore band with a lot of thrash sensibilities, similar to what you might hear on a Sacrifice or Megadeth record, but with not without snarly vocals. Oh, for. For a lot of the songs. So that's kind of the evolution and there's a lot more to it, obviously, but I'm just, you know, giving the potted bio of it.
- [09:36]
C
Yeah, they. They have this sound where I feel like they would just be a fantastic band to show Someone who doesn't like metal or at least thinks that they don't like metal because it. It has like the great, you know, it has like that great metal sound. Like it's extremely hard sounding, but like, lyrically it's not necessarily in your ears, you know. Yeah. Blowing your eardrums off.
- [10:01]
D
Yeah, yeah. I think that the album Today's Empires, Tomorrow's Ashes is an amazing intro for people that like punk but also are kind of curious about metal because the opening track, Matica Marisa kun Rasakan is a great crossover track that really kicked listeners in the face when we first heard it in 2001, when the new record came out, because of how much more intricate and complex the performance was, but how still it was so catchy. So it maintained that catchy sensibility was, while also being like, we're here to rock and everybody get out of our way.
- [10:36]
C
Right. The band is also, you know, not just music musically in terms of their sound, but, you know, very, very well known for their lyrics. And there's obviously a long history of politically charged punk music. I think, you know, when you actually start like listening, you see how. How different the politics of certain punk music, punk bands are. I think sometimes there could be this broad brush, like they're all just anarchists and they just want to burn stuff down. But could you give a little insight into like, the political ideas that are explored and also just how their political ideas have. Have changed over time?
- [11:11]
D
Yeah. So when they came out, they got really lumped in with the early to mid-90s snowboard and skateboard scene that was commonly shown on. On things like Birdhouse skateboard videos and stuff like that. And they really weren't into that scene at all. They didn't come from that scene. They didn't know those people. And they didn't really find it very interesting because their shows were suddenly filled with jocks and meatheads and sexists and racists and things like that. And so they were very outspoken in their hometown of Winnipeg about like, baiting skinheads and Nazis who would like, come see their band and like, try to run them out of the scene and stuff like that. And then when they started touring the States and they got a little more popular, they were all vegans and they were very outspoken about it on stage. They were pro feminist, they were gay positive. So they would be, you know, have homophobic slurs hurled at them from the crowd. And then the recordings of those old shows in the 90s where they were up against the very homophobic and very sexist. Early 90s snowboard and skate scene are stuff of legend where you can listen to recordings of them in 1995, essentially arguing with people in the crowd more than playing music. So their sets were notorious for that, for that very outspoken and confrontational nature. And I would argue it's one of the most punk things you can possibly do is to go off on the people that paid money to see you whenever they were creating scenes and spaces that were unsafe for all people who might be in the room. But then on their second record, let's Talk More Rock, if you look at it, you can find an image of the COVID And on the edges, on the perimeter of the record cover, it says animal friendly, anti fascist, gay, positive, pro feminist. In a big bold border around the COVID artwork. And the back of the album, it contains essays on the back cover so that people going and seeing it in the record store would have essays to read on the back cover of the album or along with this border that was in your face of anti fascist, gay, positive, pro feminist, animal friendly. So it's right there in your face. So if you are a person that was, you know, a homophobic person in the early 90s, as so many people in that scene were, I mean, I was growing up in that scene and it was like homophobic slurs left and right among friend groups at shows. And you see this on a CD cover in a record store and it's going to cause you to have a reaction. And so they were so good about creating that from the get go in their shows. And they would bring books on tour. There would be food not bombs tabling at shows. There would be, you know, long. There'd be tons of literature available that listeners could see at the merch table. So you go to a propaganda show in the 90s and there are books for sale across an entire table. Because they would bring AK Press with them on tour and they would always have book lists and reference materials on the insides of their album covers. So this is a band that was very purposeful about platforming causes and not just going and being a traveling T shirt sales organization, which is what so many bands are these days. So many bands are legit traveling T shirt sales people. And so that is what differentiated this band in the scene because they were constantly challenging everybody in the room to use their brains a little bit and change their minds about stuff, right?
- [14:53]
C
And yeah, I feel like there, there's a, you know, there's a long history of, you know, punk bands that are con, you know, get confrontational with their audience and that also, you know, come out with a message and, and are going to stand there and fight for it. There. There's, you know, a lot of great instances. I, you know, I, I remember being like 14, obsessively listening to Minor Threat and oh yeah, it completely, you know, I, I, they really strike me as like being, obviously they're, they're a bit more musically talented than Minor Threat, though I do like listening to Minor Threat and, you know, Fugazi is, you know, a bit more, you know, advanced in their, in their music. But it's, you know, remind, they remind me a lot of that in terms of their messaging totally.
- [15:35]
D
And Fugazi, I mean, an amazing example, a band that was completely committed to not ripping off their audience, to not making their shows about merch sales. I mean, and sell it. Like, there were Fugazi shows when I was in high school where it was $5 and I was seeing other shows in 2001, when Fugazi was on their last tour selling tickets for $5, I was seeing shows back then that were $15. So, you know, Fugazi could have done that, but they were, they were that one of those kinds of bands too, so really special. Another really special band from that era too.
- [16:13]
C
I was wondering if we talked a little about, you know, Chris and Jordan and some of the other members of the band. Obviously, you know, the current lineup is a little different than it's been 40 years, so, you know, one necessarily wouldn't expect the lineup to, to remain the same, but if you could just talk a little about, you know, some of the people in the band, you know, and, and also just like the current, the current lineup as well. And, and you know, what, what your experience was of, you know, getting to talk to and, and interact with, engage with a band that you had grown up loving.
- [16:40]
D
Yeah, it's really cool. It, it, it. Whenever I think about it, it really kind of makes me choke up a little bit, to be honest with you. But they started off in the 80s with Chris and Jord, and over time they went through a couple of bass players like one of their. They went through a bass player named Mike, among others, and then they eventually landed on John K. Sampson as the bass player, who is the only bassist that answered their ad, by the way. So I talked to John Sampson one time. He's like, the reason I was in the band is because I an the ad, and that's it. But so it was always really, Chris and Jord were like the heart and.
- [17:17]
C
Soul of it all.
- [17:18]
D
But John was on the albums how to Clean Everything and Less Talk More Rock. And also they have a 10 inch that they put out in 1994 called I'd rather Be Flag Burning, which is a split 10 inch they did with another band called I Spy on Recess Records and that ended. That relationship ended in mid-1996 after the release of let's Talk More Rock. John left the band and went on to form a very popular and famous band called the Weaker Thans, who put out numerous records that are indie rock classics to this day. If listeners out there have never heard the Weaker Thans, I would insist that you go listen to the album. Left and leaving immediately. So then they brought in Todd Kowalski on bass, who remains the bass player to this day in late 1996 and Todd was the singer and guitar player for I Spy and they met through touring and Todd joined and then they put out the albums Today's Empire, Tomorrow's Ashes, Potemkin, City limits as a three piece. Both of those were on Fat Records. Then in 2006 or 2007 they added a second guitar player named David Gillis who used to play in a Winnipeg instrumental band called Giant Suns. And they really raised the bar with their 2009 record Supporting Cast. With the second guitar player, the sound broadened, the songs were amazing. They had a really like Reese resurgent kickstart in the energy of the band and supporting cast. Their 2009 LP is my favorite propaganda record. When Dave joined the band, then they did 2012's failed states and then after Failed States, Dave stayed in the band for a few more years and then left in 2014 to pursue a teaching career. And then they added Su Linhago, a guitar player from Tampa, Florida. And Su Lin remains in the band to this day. And they did the LPs, 2017's victory lap and 2025's at peace, both on Epitaph Records. But all of the people that I just mentioned are featured in the book. The conversations with Chris Jord, Todd, John David and Su Lin all featured in the book. 22 interviews across 355 pages, 117,000 words. And it was an honor because the project didn't start with a book in mind at all. That was the last thing in mind, which is kind of what I like about it at this point because I the book doesn't read like a beginning to end narrative. It's a relationship that I had built, a professional working relationship that I had where we kind of talked about whatever we wanted to talk about. I didn't have to talk about a certain thing in a certain order. And that's one of my favorite things about it, is that the book unfolds exactly as my relationship with them unfolds as well. So I often tell people, you don't have to read it in order because it's not a linear story. It is the experiences that I had with them over time, over five years of conversations, that the reason I made it a book is because I couldn't let it go. I couldn't let go of the idea that this five years of time from the pandemic through the release of the new record, I felt it was kind of a special little snapshot into an era of the band. And I just wanted to honor it with something that wasn't a digital file online. I wanted to honor the project with something that could be tangible in the world in case I ever stopped paying for the podcast to be hosted on the Internet. So if the podcast ever disappeared from the Internet, poof, the book is still there. So I wanted to honor this tangible thing for something that I, I put my heart and soul into for the last five years.
- [21:18]
C
So it's interesting, you know, while you're interviewing them, you're talking about, you know, the long past of their band and, you know, what it was like making the albums, but they're also making a new album. As you're talking with them, did you gain any insight into, you know, their process? What did you learn about how they make music together?
- [21:37]
D
Yeah, so the funniest thing about their band is how slow their pace of releases is. They took eight years between their 2017 and 2025 LPs. That is the longest stretch they've ever gone, but the shortest they've ever gone is three years. So a lot of bands are on a two year album cycle and Propaganda is like three to eight, with the average being about five years between records. So even though they've been a band for super long time, they've only got eight records, which is a pretty small discography for a band of that length. So their process is slow and very much themselves. They do things because that, that speak to them. And if something is like a slam dunk business idea, they tend to go the other direction. Right. Whenever they have a commercial opportunity to do something profitable like follow up their debut record, they put out something that has anti fascist, gay, positive, pro, feminist written on the COVID and tank their commercial ambitions. So their per. Their approach is always about the creative process to them. They Love being in the jam space. They love creating stuff. And they are on no one's schedule but their own, which is frustrating for fans, but I have so much respect for it. In a world that is hell bent on going at an absolutely massive speed all the times, with consumerism, consumerism and peak capitalism being the absolute obsession with the global economy, doing things that is counteractive to that is. Is something that's super fun. So their process is slow, it's methodical. They often say it's very painful. They often say it's very unnatural. Like they feel like they're not Supernatural musicians. So it's a very laborious process for them that they find to be very painful and long and challenging, which is so funny to think about because then they put out these records that I consider to be 10 out of 10 classics, and they were like, oh, my gosh, it was so hard and it took so long and it was so painful. So I find it to be so inspiring that something can be so hard for them, but they come out with something that is. It pushes the envelope every single time they do a record.
- [24:01]
C
In the course of talking with the various members, was there anything that you learned that was really surprising or anything that made you, like, think differently about some of their albums or songs? You know, maybe you had a particular interpretation that, you know, you realized was wrong?
- [24:14]
D
Oh, man. So the great thing about my relationship with them is that they kind of kept knowing a little involvement with. With the podcast in the book. They were like, we want you to be as critical as you can of us. So at many times throughout the life of the podcast, I've been very critical of. Of some of their songs that they've put out, which, you know, don't resonate with me. Right. Like, they have a song on how to Clean everything called this Might Be Satire that I found to be very poorly executed on the record. And I was very, like, poo pooing it on the podcast. Um, so I have found a lot of things that I had never really thought, do I like this for real or am or not? Or is it just something that I'm going through? So I've been able, through my detachment with them, to be critical of their work, and they have also been critical of their work, but I also have just loved hearing about who inspired them. That was a lot of stuff that I didn't really know about. I did an interview in the book with Chris where we only talk about COVID songs that the band has done. He has a project called A Catastrophic Break with Consensus Reality, where he put out cover songs from bands like snfu, Voivod, Sacrifice, Iron Maiden, Concrete Blonde. And I was asking him specifically to go into detail at length about what he thought about the people that most inspired him. So that was a really inspiring section for me, is like hearing my favorite artist talk about his favorite art that inspired him and why it inspired him. So I don't know if it's necessarily as many things that changed my mind about their stuff, but I have been able to find stuff in their catalog that I don't like, and I have also been able to freely express that, which is fun. And. And I think that they get a kick out of hearing me say stuff that I don't like. And I also really enjoyed hearing about stuff that they don't really talk about in the music, like Chris talking about that stuff that inspired him. But I also did another chapter in the book where I interviewed their former second guitar player, David Gillis, about his guitar building that he does in his house. So there's been a lot of really cool, candid, and personal stuff on the podcast that made it into the book that was just beautiful to talk about and think about, because these are people that are so well known for their political stances in their music, but they're also full people living outside lives, outside of their band, having experiences that, you know, that they don't talk about all the time in music. So that was another one of my favorite aspects, is the title being Unscripted Moments actually wound up working out really well because it's like, there's so many more personal details in the book that are candid and. And very sweet and very endearing in a way that might flop it on its head of this being an aggressive, you know, punk band that is so outspoken. But they're also living beautiful, sweet lives apart from the band as well. So those are some things that I really enjoyed, too.
- [27:44]
C
They're still going. So, you know, to talk about legacy is sort of difficult because, you know, they're still creating their. Their legacy. But, yeah, do they. Do you think they feel like maybe they're underrated in a way? Like, obviously they have this, like, rabid, you know, cult following and they did things to avoid becoming more popular. But do you think that on some level they're like, oh, like, why? You know, why. Why didn't. Why aren't we necessarily considered or talked about in the same lens as other punk bands?
- [28:14]
D
Yeah, that's a really great question. I don't think that they personally harp on that too much, maybe they could be a lot. I think that at times on Chris's podcast he's expressed a little bit of confusion that stuff that he thought was going to make a bigger dent wound up getting no feedback. Like he's, he's, he's talks. He talks in a little bit of detail about that in his podcast where he's like, yeah, I thought this was going to really shake up some stuff. But then we heard no feedback whatsoever about that particular thing that I thought was going to be huge. But this other thing on the record wound up blowing up instead. So they definitely have things that they think, think are going to blow up a little bit that don't wind up going that way. But you can't control people's reactions. And I think that they are just enjoying the fact that they can still draw people in a room, you know, like, I just saw them two nights in a row in Toronto and it was sold out, jam packed both nights. So I'm. I hope that they feel happy about their status in music. The fact that they have bucked trends left and right for the last 30, 40 years and still have the people that they've got who care about them. What's also super interesting about them is that they don't give the. A large part of the audience what they want. There are so many people in the audience that want to hear stuff from how to Clean Everything and let's Talk More Rock. And they don't play hardly anything from those records live. So you have a lot of people that are coming out for like a nostalgia thing, but the band refuses to be that. And they easily could go on tour and be like, all right, we're going to play how to Clean Everything Less Talk, More Rock, front to back. And they would have the biggest audiences that they will ever play to if they did something like that. But they won't do it because they don't do things that aren't satisfying to them. So I think that the way they do it is, is, is good with them. And they also don't play a ton of tours. So maybe there's a little bit of an underrated aspect, but the things that have caused them to be underrated are things that people like me think are awesome. So, you know, like, I'm not really sure, but it's, it's kind of a.
- [30:40]
C
Funny question oftentimes when I think about punk music. And maybe it's just that I can't, you know, conjure other Canadian punk, that many Canadian. Other Canadian punk Bands to mind. But I oftentimes think of punk music. I think of, you know, America and I think of the United Kingdom. Yeah. And, you know, do they. Do they feel, in a way, like they're, you know, they feel representative of, like, how do they feel about Canada being Canadian? Does that. Does that impact their. Their thinking about their music?
- [31:08]
D
It absolutely has a role. Because if you read the interviews in the book or see interviews with them, they constantly cite Canadian bands as being super important among the band. One of their favorite bands in the world is SNFU from Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, fronted by the Belki Brothers and Chai Pig. They're a legendary vocalist who has since passed away. They also love the British Columbia band no Means no, one of the greatest punk bands of all time. They also love the band DOA from British Columbia. And they also love Canadian metal like Sacrifice, Razor and Voivod. So there is a massive importance in Canada. And I think maybe some of it has to do with the fact that, as when they were growing up in Canada, they were. They're probably paying import prices on records, right? So maybe it was easier to get some of those bands. That is why they were so influential. So Canada definitely has a role, but they've also been extremely critical of Canada in. In their own lyrics. So they are very critical of Canada in a way that a lot of punk bands in the US are critical of the US or punk bands in Britain are critical of Britain. So a lot of people in the U.S. think that Canada is, you know, some kind of utopian vision for liberal democracy compared to what the United States is living through right now. But there's a lot of things that are wrong in Canada that you can learn about through Propagandi's lyrics. So it's just kind of an interesting aspect that they're critical of their own country, but also they have a deep appreciation for a lot of the artists that have come out of it. So all those bands that I just listed are fantastic Canadian bands. I also love Canadian bands like Protest the Hero and Rebels the Rebel Spell. So there's so much great music out of Canada. And if it wasn't for Propagandi citing all those bands, I wouldn't even know any of those bands existed, probably. So I'm grateful to them for spreading the love of bands that come from Canada to me in the US because it just broadened my own fandom of.
- [33:20]
C
Music in general for any listeners that, you know, still with us. And I heard the conversation, they're like, I want to go and dig into it. Like could you give a couple recommendations like where you know what songs, you know what, maybe an album that you think people should, should go and, and listen to right after this.
- [33:39]
D
So I think that the best album that people can listen to. If you want to get a. A pretty full scope of propaganda sounds over the years, I feel like Supporting Cast is the best supporting cast or Victory lap. So their 2009 and 2017 LPs have an excellent crossover of melody, catchiness, metal guitar solos. So it, they really are kind of a crossover of their early 90s sound on Fat Records mixed with their more metallic influences. So if anybody out there is has never heard Propagandi, I would say that the best place you can go is to listen to 2017's Victory Lap LP. I think it's a really great crossover between the melody and the metallic nature that they honed over the years. Very catchy tunes, very deep lyrics. They do have a brand new record out, but it is, it's an outlier in their sound. It's another progression for their sound that I think longtime fans are still, still like focusing on and, and leaning into. So definitely listen to Victory Lap.
- [35:05]
C
I think that's the one. Awesome. Yeah. Thank you so much Greg, for, for coming on and talking. It is so. I mean you're clearly so passionate about, about, you know, propaganda and you know, I, I don't know, maybe this should. Could be a series. You could do other, other bands too though. You know, obviously dedicating like five years to work on one fan is quite, you know, it's quite an endeavor. But I, I think it could be a really interesting project.
- [35:33]
D
Yeah, we actually are working on a potential spin off for when we finish all the Propaganda songs because we're not quite done yet. But Propagandi from 1996 until about 2011 were running a record label out of Winnipeg called G7 Welcoming Committee Records and they put out a ton of great albums. And we are thinking about doing a spin off show where we talk about every record that G7 put out during those years of activity, including a couple propaganda releases that came out on that record label. So we do have a potential spinoff idea in the works for the future if we still feel motivated and ready to go. Because if we talk about those records, I want to be able to give them my full effort. And we'll see if after doing this project and doing this book, if I still have the energy to fully commit to it. Because as you know from doing this for so many years yourself, Caleb, this is hard work and a lot of stuff goes into these projects. So maybe after a period of rest I'll bust out the the G7 welcoming committee reviews podcast. So we'll see how it goes.
- [36:44]
C
Yeah, absolutely. And people should listen to Greg's podcast and also your, your podcast, Classical Ideas slash on Religion, which was hosted on on nbn. So there's a lot of really great stuff stuff there too, Greg. Greg has many multifaceted interests that, you know, really, really run the gam gamut. So Greg, it was really great to have you on and I really enjoyed getting the chance to interview you.
- [37:08]
D
Thank you, Caleb. It means a lot. Being able to highlight this book on a new books network is a real honor for me. I've really loved hosting for you guys over the years and to be interviewed and featured as a guest with my own book is actually pretty surreal. So I look forward to coming down from this project and reimmersing myself into making some other great episodes for nbn.
- [37:32]
C
I look forward to it. Really great talking.