Podcast Summary: New Books Network

Episode: Hamid Dabashi, "After Savagery: Gaza, Genocide, and the Illusion of Western Civilization" (Haymarket, 2025)

Host: Joseph Williams
Guest: Hamid Dabashi
Date: October 15, 2025

Overview of the Episode

This episode features a conversation between host Joseph Williams and renowned scholar Hamid Dabashi about his latest book, After Savagery: Gaza, Genocide, and the Illusion of Western Civilization. Dabashi draws on the moral crises exposed by ongoing atrocities in Gaza to interrogate the philosophical and intellectual frameworks—particularly those of Western tradition—that legitimize and perpetuate violence, exclusion, and the dehumanization of marginalized peoples. The discussion traverses critical theory, Eurocentric universalism, the meaning and limits of civilization, and the transformative possibilities of art and culture in imagining a moral future.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Context of the Book and Recent Gaza Developments

[01:54–03:59]

• Dabashi opens by noting relief at a recent ceasefire in Gaza but remains wary:

  "I'm constitutionally suspicious of any so-called ceasefire in which Netanyahu is part of the deal." – Hamid Dabashi [02:17]

• He frames the book as a response to the day-to-day horror of "indiscriminately killed... deliberately targeted" Palestinians, especially children, as witnessed globally due to the intensification of digital media.

The Moral Landscape and Illusion of Civilization

[03:59–06:59]

• Dabashi explains the book's title, asserting that the violence in Gaza exposes the limits and contradictions of 'Western Civilization':

  "There is no possibility of a moral being, moral existence, except that it should start from the rubbles of Gaza. That's the ground zero of our existence." – Hamid Dabashi [06:35]

• He highlights the performative cruelty and open dehumanization of Palestinians—by both armies and high officials—as symptomatic of deep systemic malaise.

Critique of Critical Theory and European Philosophy

[06:59–14:52]

• Dabashi centers his critique on the Frankfurt School, including Adorno, Horkheimer, and Habermas:

  "I'm particularly critical of Frankfurt School and Critical Theory because in a way I'm a product of it...and as a result I have expected much from it." – Hamid Dabashi [08:00]

• He challenges their Eurocentric focus, particularly their neglect of colonial and non-European suffering, even as they grappled authentically with the Holocaust.

  "We have never had...a condition in which the entire history of European colonialism is just in a nutshell in Gaza, staged." [10:53] "There is no criticism of this Israeli slaughter in Gaza without simultaneously denouncing the loss of innocent human lives in Israel in any context." [13:26]

• He insists we must "renew our thinking about a kind of redemption...that no longer thinks that some lives are more important than other lives."

The Universal Versus the Particular, and Reconsidering the Holocaust

[14:52–21:02]

• Dabashi advocates for transcending tribalism and exceptionalism in memory and mourning:

  "...who can go to Native Americans...to generations of African Americans...or to Armenian genocide...and say, yours is not as important as that which has happened somewhere else, which is My tribe." [16:26]

• He critiques the 'specificity' argument around the Holocaust, instead urging a reading that intensifies its universal implications and solidarity.
• He insists on the value of human collectivity, advocating for human-to-human connection as the antidote to brutality:

  "Human collectivity...is the only way for us to secure some sort of sanity for our species survival beyond these wanton cruelties." [19:20]

Revising Conceptual Frameworks: Philosophical and Vernacular

[21:02–27:26]

• Dabashi details the dangers of universalizing European frameworks without critical reflection, especially when these frameworks have 'blind spots' regarding non-Western humanity.
• He foregrounds Palestinian terms — Nakba (catastrophe), Intifada (uprising), Samud (resistance/steadfastness) — as essential to understanding both the reality and the resilience of Gaza, and as valuable correctives to dominant paradigms:

  "The critical juncture where we are...requires a different way of thinking...the very fragility of the earth on which we live..." [26:40]

• He uses Kant as an example of deep philosophical racism, quoting his own work to illustrate:

  “Immanuel Kant...adds, it might be that there were something in this which perhaps deserved to be considered. But in short, this fellow was very Black from head to foot. A clear proof that what he said was stupid. I mean, you cannot clean up this in European philosophy.” [23:37]

The Transformative Power of Art & Aesthetics

[27:26–34:05]

• Dabashi emphasizes the unique role of art and cultural production, especially from the margins, in reclaiming and asserting excluded humanity:

  “There is no national cinema without a national trauma...first you have a national trauma, on the basis of which...you turn to art. Art, as a result, at the very heart of it is a trauma, is a national, collective trauma.” [31:11]

• He recounts experiences organizing Palestinian film festivals, referencing filmmakers like Elia Suleiman, and how the prerequisites for 'world cinema' often preclude or marginalize the stateless.
• He highlights digital media’s double-edged power by mentioning Bisan Auda—a Gazan teenager whose phone videos bring Gaza's reality directly to the world—demonstrating new forms of aesthetic resistance and record.

  "For me, the real event is this teenager, Besson Auda in Gaza...produced a series of videos titled this is Besan from Gaza. I'm still alive." [33:13]

• The convergence of digital access and tragedy, he contends, changes the stakes and forms of global solidarity and storytelling.

Closing Reflections

[34:05–35:27]

• Dabashi expresses gratitude for the conversation and for the book's widespread interest, stressing that its reach reflects a global hunger for moral clarity rather than his own authorial significance.

  "Always with malice towards none. We will be defeated right off the bat if we begin by demonization of anybody, any group. Jews, Israelis. It just cannot happen. That cannot be the predicate of our emerging conversation." [34:41]

• He reinforces the need for analytic precision, careful sourcing, and compassionate engagement.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “There is no possibility of a moral being, moral existence, except that it should start from the rubbles of Gaza. That’s the ground zero of our existence.”
  — Hamid Dabashi [06:35]

• “I’m particularly critical of Frankfurt School and Critical Theory because in a way I’m a product of it...and as a result I have expected much from it.”
  — Hamid Dabashi [08:00]

• “We have never had...a condition in which the entire history of European colonialism is just in a nutshell in Gaza, staged.”
  — Hamid Dabashi [10:53]

• “The critical juncture where we are...requires a different way of thinking...the very fragility of the earth on which we live...”
  — Hamid Dabashi [26:40]

• “There is no national cinema without a national trauma...first you have a national trauma, on the basis of which...you turn to art.”
  — Hamid Dabashi [31:11]

• “Always with malice towards none. We will be defeated right off the bat if we begin by demonization of anybody, any group. Jews, Israelis. It just cannot happen. That cannot be the predicate of our emerging conversation.”
  — Hamid Dabashi [34:41]

Important Segment Timestamps

• Ceasefire context in Gaza: [01:54–03:59]
• Unpacking the book’s title and core thesis: [03:59–06:59]
• Critique of Critical Theory and Eurocentrism: [06:59–14:52]
• The Holocaust, tribalism, and universal ethics: [14:52–21:02]
• Conceptual revision and Palestinian philosophical terms: [21:02–27:26]
• The aesthetics of trauma and digital resistance: [27:26–34:05]
• Final reflections on demonization and hope: [34:05–35:27]

Conclusion

Through deep philosophical engagement, self-critical thought, and moral urgency, Hamid Dabashi’s "After Savagery" interrogates how the tragedy of Gaza reframes the limits and possibilities of Western civilization, universalism, and collective memory. He calls for a radical reinvention of moral and intellectual life grounded in solidarity, inclusion, and the generative power of art from below. The conversation is rich with analytical insights and driven by a compassionate, urgent tone befitting the moment.