Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Michael Stauch
Guest: Heather Ann Thompson
Episode: Fear and Fury: The Reagan Eighties, the Bernie Goetz Shootings, and the Rebirth of White Rage
Date: February 12, 2026
Book Discussed: Fear and Fury (Pantheon, 2026)

Episode Overview

This episode features historian Heather Ann Thompson discussing her latest book, Fear and Fury: The Reagan Eighties, the Bernie Goetz Shootings, and the Rebirth of White Rage. Thompson and host Michael Stauch delve into the political, social, and racial climate of the 1980s, centering on the infamous 1984 subway shooting by Bernie Goetz and examining how this moment fostered a resurgence and legitimization of white rage, with stark continuities to the present. The conversation covers Thompson's motivations, her narrative choices, historical context, archival discoveries, and the deeper implications for American society.

Key Topics & Insights

1. Genesis of the Book and Historian’s Responsibility

Timestamp: 01:26–03:51

• Pivot in Research Focus: Thompson was writing another book on the MOVE bombing in Philadelphia but felt compelled to respond to the growing sense of chaos amid the Trump era. She believed historians have an obligation to make sense of tumultuous times, even if history moves slower than journalism.

• Urgency & Method: She sought to document what she saw as the “re-legitimization” (or “rebirth”) of white rage, choosing to drop her previous work to address this timely and urgent topic.

  “I just essentially decided to drop everything and to turn my attention to this… what I was seeing as a resurgence, a re-legitimization of just unleashed white rage and a legal sanctioning of it.”
  — Heather Thompson (02:35)

2. The Book’s Title—Layers of Meaning

Timestamp: 03:51–07:28

• Storytelling & Thematic Scope: Thompson aims to intertwine compelling storytelling with broader historical analysis. The core story is the 1984 Bernie Goetz subway shooting, but it also serves as a lens for understanding shifts in American politics and race relations.

• From Event to Broad Patterns: The Goetz shooting is emblematic of media sensationalism, the development of conservative media ecosystems like Fox News, and the deeply ingrained nature of racial violence.

  “Once this racialized rage is absolutely sanctioned and unleashed, nobody is safe.”
  — Heather Thompson (06:48)

3. Centering the Victims’ Stories

Timestamp: 07:28–10:18

• Reclaiming Erased Narratives: Thompson highlights how the young Black men shot by Goetz—Barry Allen, James Ramseur, Troy Canty, and Darryl Cabey—were erased from public memory, both at the time and in subsequent media portrayals.

• Methodological Commitment: Informed by her background in African American history, Thompson insists on restoring agency to the victims.

  “His [Goetz’s] name comes up in a Billy Joel song… Nobody, you know, to save their life could name the kids who he shot. So that was critical to me.”
  — Heather Thompson (08:40)

4. Structure and Narrative Choices

Timestamp: 10:18–13:14

• Short Chapters and Breathing Space: The book is organized in brief sections and chapters, allowing readers space to process difficult material and avoid being overwhelmed by heavy historical context.

• Story–Context Balance: Narrative threads are interspersed with contextual analysis to make the history accessible without diluting its complexity.

  “…you need to take a breath after you read some of this stuff. Like, it is so, you know, outrageous and upsetting… short chapters allow you to just rest with that.”
  — Heather Thompson (11:41)

5. The Role and Challenge of Images

Timestamp: 13:14–15:35

• Animating the Era Through Photographs: Images serve to evoke the feel of 1980s New York, a city grappling with decline, homelessness, and the impending "order" imposed by figures like Giuliani.

• Privatization and Barriers: Thompson notes the challenge of securing images due to the privatization of archives and rising costs.

  “The imagery was critical, but… trying to pull that together, because, you know, that industry has been privatized… which is really terrible.”
  — Heather Thompson (15:27)

6. Why the Goetz Shooting Was a Product of Its Time

Timestamp: 15:35–21:01

• Twin Crises and the Reagan Revolution: The late 1970s saw a global fiscal crisis and an intensified struggle over the social safety net. Wealthy elites saw an opportunity to roll back New Deal and Great Society programs.

• Racial Coding & Media Amplification: The conservative response, amplified by a burgeoning Murdoch-run media ecosystem, shifted blame to liberal governance and urban Black communities, legitimizing white anger.

• Legal & Cultural Sanction: Goetz's vigilante act became a legal template—white rage justified, with public and legal support.

  “If you’re Bernie Goetz, you have a right to pull a gun. And guess what? We will defend you in court and we will change the law all the way up to the Supreme Court level and say you have a right to do that.”
  — Heather Thompson (20:38)

7. Vigilante Violence as a National Phenomenon

Timestamp: 21:01–24:34

• Beyond New York: Similar acts of racialized vigilante violence (e.g., Vincent Chin’s murder in Detroit) occurred nationally, each contextually distinct but thematically linked through media-fueled white resentment.

• Role of Conservative Media: The press, driven increasingly by sensational crime coverage, erases context and rationalizes white violence.

  “On the front pages would be splashed the worst of the worst crimes with zero context… this is why you need the police, right?… Context is not.”
  — Heather Thompson (24:19)

8. Archival Discoveries: Erasure and Demonization

Timestamp: 24:34–28:47

• Crime Victims Board Denials: Archival research revealed official efforts to deny the victims compensation, labeling them criminals rather than victims.

• Chilling Civil Trial: Goetz was allowed to personally depose his victims, demonstrating the depth of legal and societal bias.

  “The acrobatics that that board went through to deny these victims of gun violence… to say that they could not not only could they not get money, but that the reason why was because they were in fact the criminals, not the victims.”
  — Heather Thompson (26:23)

9. The Showmanship of the Trial

Timestamp: 28:47–33:25

• Barry Slotnick’s Tactics: Goetz’s defense attorney turned the trial into theater, staging reenactments with Guardian Angels and a former NYPD detective, swaying the jury through spectacle over fact.

• Media and Legal Distortion: These maneuvers overshadowed the stories of the victims and distorted the truth of events.

  “It is theater. It is a dramatic show really, from start to finish… the people who were on the jury feel like they were at a Broadway show.”
  — Heather Thompson (29:41)

10. Research Process: Wrestling with the Sources

Timestamp: 33:25–38:37

• Archival Complexity: Reconstructing the story required cross-referencing trial transcripts, legal files, and contemporary media, diagramming timelines, and navigating conflicting testimonies.

• On Graphic Images: Thompson reflects on her evolving stance, influenced by earlier work on Attica, regarding the inclusion (and risk of retraumatization) of graphic violence in historical narratives.

  “…the writing of history has its own history… it felt like an imperative… to not turn away the gaze, but… we get the point now… so in this book, I had to really think about it differently.”
  — Heather Thompson (36:59)

11. The Importance of Tools and Timelines

Timestamp: 40:22–43:09

• Practical Writing Advice: Outlining and physically laying out timelines (using whiteboards and sticky notes) is critical for threading together complex, multi-source narratives.

  “Highly recommend to anyone writing… do what in fact, like documentary filmmakers do… sticky notes… my version of that… is a huge whiteboard.”
  — Heather Thompson (41:25)

12. The Enduring Wreckage: Shirley Cabey’s Struggle

Timestamp: 43:53–48:53

• Personal Aftermath: The story follows not just Darryl Cabey, the paralyzed survivor, but also his mother Shirley, whose life is upended—forced to quit her job, fight for justice, and ultimately spend her years caring for her injured son.

• Intergenerational Impact: The focus on Shirley and Darryl is a deliberate counterpoint to the common Goetz-centered narrative.

  “She is determined that this rhetoric that her son is an animal… is not going to be the story people know about her son. So she… lands on Bill Kunstler… and she doesn’t give up.”
  — Heather Thompson (46:47)

13. Drawing the Line to the Present

Timestamp: 48:53–52:38

• Continuities from Goetz to Today: The book links 1980s dynamics to current events—police violence, Trumpism, resurgent white rage—and argues that understanding this history is key to confronting today’s challenges.

• Hope for Change: Thompson emphasizes the need for coalition-building and class-based analysis, noting that moments of progressive victory can still emerge in places with long histories of racialized violence.

  “Keep your eye on the shiny ball over here, which is your rage, your fury and your racism. But over here, meanwhile, we're going to reinherit the earth, and that's what they’re doing.”
  — Heather Thompson (52:21)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the necessity of historian intervention:
  “I think historians have an obligation, I think, in these moments to weigh in, to kind of make sense of the chaos that we are experiencing in the present.”
  (Heather Thompson, 01:44)

• On structural erasure of Black victims:
  “I don't know why I always remain kind of stunned and surprised… how utterly and completely erased the victims of this brutal shooting were both at the time and then subsequently.”
  (Heather Thompson, 08:31)

• On sensationalism in media trials:
  “He gets the judge to allow the jury to go on a subway car that has been retrofitted to be like that subway car and get them to sit there in this dark subway tunnel amidst the graffiti… which in effect was them… thinking about how Bernie Goetz must have felt on that train.”
  (Heather Thompson, 31:33)

Suggested Listening Guide: Key Segments

• 01:26 – Motivation behind the book, pivot from previous work
• 03:51 – Book title and objectives: storytelling + intervention
• 07:28 – Centering the victims and narrative approach
• 15:35 – 1980s context and the making of the Goetz moment
• 21:39 – Vigilante violence and national implications
• 24:34 – Archival discoveries on victim erasure
• 28:47 – Dramatic courtroom reenactments and trial spectacle
• 33:25 – The research process and handling of images
• 43:53 – The aftermath for Darryl Cabey and his mother Shirley
• 48:53 – Drawing connections to the present, lessons and hope

Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode offers a rich, in-depth discussion of how the 1980s—symbolized by the Goetz shootings—marked a pivotal juncture in the public and legal re-legitimization of white rage. Thompson’s research re-centers the victims’ experiences, underscores the complicity of media narratives, and delivers a powerful warning about the persistent structures of racial violence. By threading archival discoveries, storytelling, and trenchant sociopolitical analysis, Thompson’s work challenges listeners to reconsider the roots of contemporary American unrest and envision new paths forward.

For further reading:
Fear and Fury: The Reagan Eighties, the Bernie Goetz Shootings, and the Rebirth of White Rage by Heather Ann Thompson (Pantheon, 2026).