Podcast Summary
New Books Network
Episode: Illiberalism, Putin, and the Politics of Religion
Date: October 8, 2025
Host: Eli Karetney (B)
Guest: Marlene Laruelle (C) – French political philosopher, historian, and Director of the Illiberalism Studies Program, George Washington University
Overview
This episode explores the ideological underpinnings of Vladimir Putin’s Russia, focusing on the rise of “illiberalism” both as a political philosophy and as an evolving framework for state identity and foreign policy. The conversation delves into Russia's post-Soviet ideological journey, the blending of religion and state power, and surprising parallels between Russian and American right-wing developments—especially with regard to Christian nationalism. The episode features insightful analysis from Marlene Laruelle, whose recent research connects these trends across Russia, Europe, and the U.S.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Defining "Illiberalism"
-
Heuristic Value & Core Elements
Laruelle clarifies the programmatic definition her Illiberalism Studies Program uses and argues why "illiberalism" is a useful analytical term:- Critique or backlash against liberalism, requiring previous exposure to it.
- Promotion of alternative political projects based on:
- Primacy of executive/majoritarian power over checks and balances ([03:00])
- Sovereignty of the nation-state over supranational institutions
- Realist, civilizationally informed, multipolar foreign policy
- Cultural homogeneity over multiculturalism
- Preservation of traditional hierarchies and values ([04:20])
- Quote:
"I use illiberalism to define something that began in the last 50 years... The political moment of now... is best captured by the illiberalism concept because it forces us to put liberalism into the discussion."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [06:37]
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Illiberalism as a Byproduct of Liberalism
- Unlike classic authoritarianism, illiberalism grows out of a backlash to a lived or attempted liberal experiment ([07:43])
- Economic ties: Many "illiberal" actors maintain economically liberal (even neoliberal) policies ([08:04])
- The relationship between liberal and illiberal is "entangled," not simply binary ([09:17])
The International Order & Illiberalism
- The rejection of the "liberal international order" is central, not just domestic factors ([10:02])
- Russia, in particular, rejected international liberalism before turning against cultural liberalism:
“Russia has been rejecting the liberal international order before rejecting liberalism as a kind of cultural project.”
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [10:40] - Today’s globalized world compels even exclusivist regimes to form positions on world order ([11:30])
Russia as the Archetype of Illiberalism
- Post-Soviet Liberal “Trauma”
- 1990s: Russia underwent a radical break, experiencing liberalism on economic, political, and cultural levels.
- Resulted in backlash due to perceived failures and traumas of rapid liberalization ([12:18])
- Putin's Evolving Position
- Initial optimism of coexistence with the West gave way to defensive conservatism and authoritarian closure ([14:03])
- A gradual progression:
- Learning from the West
- Unlearning from the West
- Entering conflict with the West, culminating in war ([15:38])
- Over time, narratives about Russia as a “traditional” or “conservative” power solidified.
Anti-Westernism: Multiple Strands
- Rejection of Universalism vs. Conservatism as Response to Western Liberalism ([21:20])
- Russia positions itself as a “civilization” with its own values; universalism is cast as Western hypocrisy.
- Competing narratives:
- Russia as the “true, conservative Christian Europe” vs.
- Russia as a Eurasian civilization, distinct from Europe.
- Putin's Pragmatism
- Putin oscillates between both frames depending on context and audience—projecting Russianness, Christianity, or multinational diversity ([24:49])
Russia's Dual National Identity: State vs. Ethnicity
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State-Centric Identity:
- Russia defines itself through statism, not ethnicity ([26:19])
- Multiethnic, multireligious state: Ethnic Russians and Orthodox Christians are the “core of the core,” with concentric circles of legitimacy ([27:30])
- Post-2021, ethno-nationalist (“Russky”) rhetoric, especially regarding Ukrainians and Belarusians, became more prominent, creating tensions.
-
Uncertain Succession
- Putin uniquely holds diverse Russian identity strands together. After him, cohesion may collapse or reorient ([30:04])
- Quote:
"Because in a sense, Putin is above everyone in Russia. So he had that capacity at talking all these different languages. Not sure those who will be succeeding him will be able to do that again. They may have to take a stance."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [31:20]
The Politics of Religion in Russia
- Orthodoxy as Cultural Glue, Not Personal Faith
- Most Russians claim Orthodox identity as a marker of culture and history, not necessarily as practicing believers ([32:51])
- Actual church attendance is low; religiosity lags behind identification.
- The Church aligns tightly with the state, operating as a "junior partner."
- Since Ukraine war, both church and grassroots “magical” practices surged, especially among families of soldiers ([35:00])
- Elite discourse has become more religious and eschatological, framing the war in Ukraine as an existential battle ([37:00])
- Quote:
"People may identify as Orthodox, but non-believer Orthodox... the number of people going to church is one of the lowest in Europe."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [33:30]
Parallels with American Christian Nationalism
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US Right’s Turn Toward Russia as Model
- Figures like Steve Bannon and some "MAGA" intellectuals see Russia as a defender of Christian civilization ([39:00])
- Ideological affinity blends with geopolitical calculation; for some, metaphysical coherence in Russia (spiritual-political unity) appears as a model for the US ([40:06])
- Emergence since Obama era; American Right draws inspiration from European New Right, where Russia is already idealized.
-
Notable Quote:
"For people like Bannon, the ideological affinity is a key criteria, perceiving Russia as a spiritually coherent and ideologically uncompromised polity that is showing a path..."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [40:35] -
Race, Whiteness, and Misperception
- US right projects an image of Russia as an ethnically and culturally homogeneous, “white” Christian nation.
- This is an American fantasy; in reality, Russia is multiethnic and emphasizes multinational unity ([46:56])
- Quote:
"It's a mirror game... they both admire and borrow from each other, but things that are kind of very different from the reality, the sociological, demographical realities..."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [48:52]
Dugin, Putin, and Ideological Influences
- Alexandr Dugin: Not Putin's Brain
- Dugin imports European far-right concepts, but is considered marginal, even controversial, in Russia’s policy circles ([51:48])
- Sometimes labeled “Putin’s brain” in the West, but this is mostly media myth.
- Quote:
"Dugin is not Putin’s brain... that was a Western media construction... he is considered as someone who is precisely too pro Western."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [52:00] - Dugin’s relationship to Putin is “love-hate”—wary of Putin being too liberal or hesitant ([54:35])
- Other Influential Thinkers
- Sergei Karaganov: Prioritizes alignment with the “global South,” strongly anti-West regardless of US internal politics ([56:20])
- Diversity and tension exist among Russia’s intellectual elite regarding the West and possible rapprochement.
Eschatology, Catacomb, and the "Antichrist" in Political Language
- Political Theology and the "Catacomb"
- Ancient religious ideas, like being the “shield” against the Antichrist, are revived to justify Russia’s opposition to liberalism, globalism, and progressivism ([58:46])
- Dugin and segments of the US tech-right reference these metaphysical frameworks (e.g. Peter Thiel).
- The “Antichrist” is reinterpreted to mean liberal modernity, relativism, or a globalized world order:
“In that case, the Antichrist is liberalism, globalism, progressivism... those who keep Christianity and traditional values are the catacomic power.”
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [59:52]
- Eschatology in the Ukraine War
- For some Russian elites, the war is conceptualized as a metaphysical battle—Ukraine as frontline of the globalist/Antichrist threat ([64:04])
- Quote:
“You will see a lot of that kind of religious reading of the war in Ukraine... the Christians are fighting the non-Christian.”
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [65:24] - For most elites though, the framework is pragmatic: Russia must outlast liberal modernity and preserve traditional order.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
-
On Illiberalism’s Complexity:
"Both are really entangled with each other."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [09:17] -
On Putin holding together multiple Russias:
"Putin is above everyone in Russia. He had that capacity at talking all these different languages."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [31:20] -
On Religion as Identity Marker:
"People may identify as Orthodox, but non-believer Orthodox."
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [33:27] -
On American Fantasies about Russia:
“It's a mirror game... they both admire and borrow from each other but things that are very different from the sociological, demographical realities"
— Marlene Laruelle (C) [48:52]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [03:00] – Defining illiberalism and why it’s distinct from conservatism or populism
- [10:02] – The global order as an element of illiberalism
- [12:18] – Russia’s post-Soviet encounter with and rejection of liberalism
- [14:38] – Distinction between grassroots and elite reactions in Russia
- [21:50] – Two types of Russian anti-Westernism
- [24:49] – Putin’s use of Eurasianism and statism
- [30:04] – Prospects for Russian politics after Putin
- [32:51] – The role of religion and Orthodoxy in Russian society and the state
- [39:00] – American Christian nationalism’s recent fascination with Russia
- [46:56] – Projected “whiteness” of Russia by American right
- [51:48] – The real influence (or lack thereof) of Alexander Dugin
- [58:46] – Apocalyptic frameworks: Catacomb, Antichrist, and their political meanings
- [64:04] – Ukraine as a metaphysical battlefield in Russian elite thinking
Conclusion
This episode offers a nuanced and deeply informed exploration of the ideological foundations of Putin's Russia and its global ramifications. Marlene Laruelle sheds light on why “illiberalism” captures today's reaction to liberal modernity—especially in Russia but also as a global trend—and reveals the complex, sometimes paradoxical interplay of philosophy, power, identity, and religion in contemporary Eurasian and American contexts. The discussion is especially timely for understanding the war in Ukraine, the rise of new global right-wing movements, and the evolving languages of politics and faith.