Podcast Summary:
Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Is the U.S. helping speed up its own decline? with Damon Linker
Date: September 8, 2025
Host: Eli Karetney
Guest: Damon Linker
Overview
This episode explores whether recent shifts in American politics—particularly under the Trump administration—represent not simply accidental decline but a conscious, ideologically driven dismantling of the U.S.'s democratic and global order. Political commentator Damon Linker joins Eli Karetney to discuss the intellectual currents underpinning these changes, focusing particularly on the influence of thinkers like Carl Schmitt and Leo Strauss, and delves into the historical, philosophical, and political forces shaping the American right.
Key Discussion Points
1. The Trump Administration’s Vision: Slitting the Nation’s Throat?
[04:24 – 10:19]
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Hastening Decline by Design: Linker argues the Trump administration's actions are not mere blunders but are the results of decisions rooted in a coherent worldview: a radical expansion of executive power that draws on authoritarian principles.
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Department of War Renaming: Trump’s renaming of the Department of Defense to the Department of War is presented as symbolic of a broader return to pre-Cold War power politics.
“Relative to the apex of American power ... the Trump vision is clearly a diminishment of American power relative to that point.” – Damon Linker (08:12)
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Shifting Conceptions of Greatness: The “Make America Great Again” slogan lacks specificity about when America was supposedly "great," with hints of nostalgia not just for the 1950s, but for earlier, even pre-imperial periods like the 1920s or 1880s.
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Rollback of the Administrative State: Linker describes a move to dismantle post–World War II expertise and the administrative apparatus, replacing it with a “spoils system” marked by corruption and lack of meritocratic governance—“something that much more would resemble kind of the spoils system of the late 19th century” (09:36).
2. Foreign Policy: Realism or Authoritarian Freedom of Action?
[10:19 – 18:04]
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Not Restraint, But Unconstrained Action: While superficially similar to realist calls for “restraint,” Linker argues that what distinguishes Trumpism is not real realism but a desire for maximal freedom of movement, unconstrained by alliances or moral obligations.
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Revival of the Monroe Doctrine: Under Trump, U.S. foreign policy becomes inward-looking and transactional, reverting to a great-power sphere-of-influence model.
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Authoritarian Notion of Greatness: The “greatness” MAGA partisans seek is the “freedom of action and freedom of movement on the part of a bold decision maker” (18:04), unconstrained by laws, norms, or expert advice.
"Trump wants to be free of all that. He wants to be free to do whatever he wants anywhere in the world... And that doesn't imply restraint. It implies total freedom of movement by the great statesman who's running the show." – Damon Linker (12:30)
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Memorable example: Linker illustrates how Trump's narcissism could torpedo international partnerships simply out of personal pique (e.g., demanding an endorsement from India's Modi).
3. Theoretical Underpinnings: Schmitt, Strauss, and Decisionism
[18:04 – 32:07]
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From Rule of Law to Decisionism: The episode traces an intellectual genealogy: from Aristotle and Locke’s acknowledgment of emergency executive power, through Schmitt’s desire to govern by perpetual emergency, to Strauss’s meditations on the dangers of such power.
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Schmitt’s “State of Exception”: Schmitt argued that true sovereignty lies in the power to decide exceptions—an idea that, implemented in Weimar Germany, paved the way for Hitler's dictatorship.
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Strauss's Nuance: While Strauss recognized the inevitability of exceptional executive power, he was wary of Schmitt’s enthusiasm for dictatorship. Still, Schmitt’s notion “bequeathed” to part of the Straussian community a romanticization of unconstrained executive power.
"Strauss wrote a critical review of Schmitt ... pointing out that ... Schmidt shows signs ... [of] wanting to bring about this very emergency for the sake of enhancing executive power." – Damon Linker (24:51)
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MAGA Intellectuals: The MAGA movement's infatuation with Trump as a “genius” and "statesman" who upends Republican orthodoxy exemplifies the drift toward personalistic, decisionist rule—“a vision of a president who ... resides above any limit or constraint and is just sort of looking out at the world and deciding on the basis of his own prudence…” (31:03).
4. On Strauss, the Claremont Institute, and Divergent Conservative Philosophies
[32:07 – 45:50]
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Strauss Beyond Schmitt: Strauss ultimately embraces an “apolitical” philosophical quest, dismissing politics as irredeemably mired in “necessary lies.” For Strauss, true wisdom means transcending politics altogether.
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Claremont (West Coast) vs. Neocon (East Coast) Straussians: The West Coast Claremont faction, descending from Harry Jaffa, embraces an activist, often reactionary politics; East Coast Straussians (e.g., Bill Kristol) ended up as “Never Trumpers,” but both miss Strauss’s deeper philosophical intent.
“My interpretation is not just that Strauss sort of leaves the cave of politics behind by the late 30s. It’s also that he believes that the only path out of the cave is to first become a conservative... then engage in dialectical criticism that ultimately points beyond politics to a kind of apolitical philosophical life.” – Damon Linker (41:00)
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Political Engagement as a Cave: Many "political Straussians" remain “in the cave,” never advancing to the philosophical detachment Strauss valued.
5. The Right’s Historical Narrative and the “Claremonsters”
[45:58 – 57:36]
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Harry Jaffa and the Just-so Story: Jaffa crafts a simplistic narrative—America was perfected post-Civil War (Lincoln solves slavery), but the administrative state (Wilson, FDR, New Deal) corrupted it, necessitating conservative restoration or even demolition.
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Restorative vs. Redemptive Reactionaries: Linker applies Mark Lilla’s distinction: early Claremonsters wanted a “restoration” of pre–administrative state America; by Michael Anton’s “Flight 93” essay, there's a shift to destructive radicalism—a willingness to ‘level the skyline’ and rebuild from the ruins.
“We have to empower this guy [Trump] who is going to destroy everything. And then we can build anew and kind of recreate something of the old excellence of the past on the ruins of the administrative state…” – Damon Linker (53:01)
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Philosophical Discontinuity: Linker notes the difficulty (bordering on absurdity) of tracing a direct theoretical line from Strauss to the radicalism of today’s Claremont right.
6. The Case of Bronze Age Pervert (BAP) and Straussian Rogue Disciples
[57:36 – 66:35]
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Who is BAP? Costin Alamariu ("Bronze Age Pervert") is a Yale PhD, social media figure, and author of Bronze Age Mindset, influential among some young right-wingers in the Trump orbit.
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BAP as Rogue Nietzschean: Linker argues that BAP misreads Plato (favoring the sociopath Callicles) and Strauss, instead embracing a “sociopathic” will-to-power reminiscent of Nietzsche’s darker impulses.
"There is a long, ugly history of people who encounter ... what philosophy is ... and some people come back as sociopaths and that is an eternal risk for philosophy. And BAP is one of our sociopaths.” – Damon Linker (61:44)
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Dangerous Twists in the Cave: The worry is not so much strawman demonization of philosophers, but that in a degraded context, radical questioning loses its civilizing role and feeds into authoritarian tendencies—“creating all of these would-be cave dwellers … could be a little ominous.” (65:32)
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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On the Trump Model of Leadership:
“It is purely one guy sitting in a place in the White House saying 'do this' and people saying 'yes sir, okay, just do that.' ... That is a vision of greatness of a kind. I think it’s a kind of authoritarian notion of greatness." – Damon Linker (16:29)
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On Schmitt’s Influence and Emergency Powers:
“Schmitt takes this true insight of politics ... and says, in effect, this gives us an opening for a kind of politics that is basically run exclusively on emergency powers by an executive who will rule entirely in this way.” – Damon Linker (22:17)
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On Strauss and the Problem of Political Life:
“Strauss comes to affirm a view of philosophical reflection that involves leaving politics behind as something that always will ... be mired in, in lies ... that instead the best you can hope for is that ... you can leave the cave to see it for what it is.” – Damon Linker (36:22)
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On the Risks of Philosophical Radicalism:
"Some people come back as sociopaths and that is an eternal risk for philosophy. And BAP is one of our sociopaths." – Damon Linker (61:44)
Timestamps for Key Segments
- Introduction to the Episode and Guest: [02:06 – 03:40]
- Thesis: Trump Administration as Deliberate Decline: [03:44 – 10:19]
- Debate over Realism and Greatness in Foreign Policy: [10:19 – 18:04]
- Intellectual Lineage: Schmitt, Strauss, Decisionism: [18:04 – 32:07]
- Strauss’s Philosophical Stance and the Straussian Divide: [32:07 – 45:50]
- Claremont Narrative and Restorative/Redemptive Reaction: [45:58 – 57:36]
- BAP, Nietzsche, and Risks of Misapplied Philosophy: [57:36 – 66:35]
Final Thoughts
The conversation ends on a somber note: philosophy’s radical questioning can sometimes be twisted, especially in turbulent times, to reinforce dangerous forms of reaction or worse. The episode is a warning about the power of ideas in politics—and their potential to be harnessed for purposes very different from what their originators intended.
“If you’re unfortunate enough to live at a time where there are actual, live political options for these sociopaths to gain a foothold ... then ... that philosophical mania can have a kind of ominousness to it.” – Damon Linker (65:32)
Episode Recommendation:
Highly recommended for anyone interested in the intellectual roots of today’s American right, the role of philosophy in politics, or the current struggle over American democracy’s future.