Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Javiera Barandiarán, "Living Minerals: Nature, Trade, and Power in the Race for Lithium" (MIT Press, 2026)
Host: Sandra
Guest: Dr. Javiera Barandiarán
Date: February 13, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode features Dr. Javiera Barandiarán, Associate Professor at UC Santa Barbara and Director of the CRU Center. She discusses her new book, Living Minerals: Nature, Trade, and Power in the Race for Lithium (MIT Press, 2026), which offers a holistic genealogy of lithium mining, comparing sites in Chile and Nevada. The interview explores key arguments from the book, including the "living minerals" heuristic, the politics and poetics of extraction, the complexities of energy transition, global mineral dependency, and nuanced approaches to environmental governance.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Heuristic of "Living Minerals"

• What does "living minerals" mean?
  • Dr. Barandiarán introduces "living minerals" as a heuristic—a tool to "resee the world" (04:25).
  • It urges policymakers and scientists to center the preservation and reproduction of life rather than treating minerals as inert commodities.
  • Critiques environmental baselines for forgetting past environmental harms; asks new questions:
    • Not just "Is there enough lithium?" but "What lives survive extraction at this scale?"
• Notable Quote:
  • "Instead of asking, 'is there enough lithium?', we should be asking, 'What kind of life, what life forms will survive at this pace and scale of extraction?'”
    —Dr. Barandiarán (06:46)

2. Expanding on Previous Work and Rights of Nature

• Relation to Earlier Research:
  • This work is more ambitious in temporal scope and deeply integrates the "rights of nature" perspective (08:20).
  • Points out the progression from legal frameworks (constitutions, local law) to the need for political movements advocating for the rights of nature.
  • Critiques the idea that only scientists should "speak for nature," advocating inclusion of ancestral, local, and industrial knowledge.
• Notable Quote:
  • "It would be a grave mistake to leave to science alone the representation and the speaking for nature in a rights of nature world."
    —Dr. Barandiarán (11:30)

3. The Fallacy of "One Size Fits All" Solutions to Sustainability

• EVs and Sustainability:
  • EVs are better than fossil-fuel cars, but not a magic bullet (12:30).
  • Questions the push for EVs as the route to sustainability; notes increasing car size worsens mineral extraction impacts.
  • The narrative that mining more solves all problems leads to ever-expanding exploitation, including deep-sea, polar, even extraterrestrial mining.
• Notable Quote:
  • "...the solution to any problem is always more mining. And so if we continue to rely on mineral markets as they have existed, then the solution will always be more mining."
    —Dr. Barandiarán (16:07)

4. Resource Nationalism and the "Next Saudi Arabia" Myth

• Flawed Comparisons:
  • Responds to the persistent comparison of Bolivia (and by extension, Chile and Argentina) to Saudi Arabia in the lithium context (17:58).
  • Highlights the dangers and inaccuracies: erasure of inequality, military intervention, and the unique, vibrant democracies of South America.
  • This analogy, Dr. Barandiarán suggests, reveals more about American anxieties than Latin American realities.
• Notable Quote:
  • "The idea of reproducing the trajectories of development that we've observed in petro states was really alarming to me..."
    —Dr. Barandiarán (20:08)

5. Methodology: Relational, Not Just Comparative

• Material Flows and Archives:
  • Chose a relational approach, emphasizing the interdependence between Chile and the US (23:00).
  • Utilized archives in both countries to avoid subordination of Chilean voices and present a nuanced, balanced narrative.
  • Not a simple comparison (like two planets), but an analysis of two relational entities deeply enmeshed in global trade.
• Writing Process:
  • "There's no such thing as writing, there's only rewriting." (23:06)

6. Temporality, Scarcity, and Futurities in Lithium Mining

• Enduring "Impending Shortage":
  • The lithium industry has always been shaped by imagined futures—EVs, nuclear fusion (28:03).
  • Disputes over reserves and future supply, divergent "future imaginaries" among government and industry, and speculative, even secretive, practices.
  • "Lithium has always had a more important future than its present." (28:09)
• Debates:
  • Industry and government disagreed sharply on reserves, reflecting secrecy and distrust.
  • Hope and "holy grail" narratives (clean, infinite, cheap power) continue to drive policy choices, often bypassing practical reality.

7. Mining Memories, Sociotechnical Imaginaries, and the Ontological Fluidity of Lithium

• Mining Memories:
  • Borrows "mining memories" from Rebecca Wheeler—how past experiences with mining shape expectations and political possibilities (33:43).
  • Stresses inability to silo energy and mining studies—material flows and narratives are intertwined.
• Ontological Fluidity:
  • Lithium’s physical characteristics and market role are slippery and contested—sometimes seen as abundant (esp. for fusion), sometimes as scarce (for current uses) (37:27).
  • Underground brines are hard to quantify, fueling both speculation and manipulation.
• Notable Quote:
  • "Lithium has a certain kind of rebelliousness and it refuses to be industrialized or commodified in any easy direct or linear way."
    —Dr. Barandiarán (37:31)

8. The Evolving Story: Lithium, Nitrates, Copper—Where is Chile Now?

• Lithium's Role in Chile:
  • The phrase, "Sooner or later lithium won't be like nitrate or copper," reflects national anxieties and shifting economic dependencies (40:50).
  • Despite lithium overtaking copper in national revenue recently, volatility and uncertainty remain.
  • Expansion continues, especially with experimental new extraction methods, rebranding regions as "lithium valleys/loops".
• Skepticism:
  • Questions if promised development and innovation will materialize—"I'm pretty skeptical about that, but who knows?" (44:49)

9. Continuing Research & New Directions

• Future Work:
  • Investigating "direct lithium extraction" technologies, focusing on new sites like the Maricunga salt flat and associated issues of local knowledge and equity (45:44).
  • Exploring glacier imaginaries and rights of nature/tourism in Chile—public-facing projects tying environment, culture, and policy.
• Notable Quote:
  • "A lot of people say you need to know something in order to love it and protect it. I want to interrogate that common sense sort of wisdom..."
    —Dr. Barandiarán (49:12)

10. Reflections on Planetary Histories and "Interscalar Vehicles"

• Distinct from the Anthropocene Literature:
  • Embraces "interscalar vehicle" (from Gabrielle Hecht), following lithium from local to global to offer empirical, material stories (50:36).
  • Critical of planetary histories that can flatten complexity and obscure lived inequalities.
  • Advocates for collaboration and complementary scales in scholarship.

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• "Instead of asking, 'is there enough lithium?', we should be asking, 'What kind of life, what life forms will survive at this pace and scale of extraction?'”
  —Dr. Javiera Barandiarán (06:46)

• "It would be a grave mistake to leave to science alone the representation and the speaking for nature in a rights of nature world."
  —Dr. Javiera Barandiarán (11:30)

• "The solution to any problem is always more mining. And so if we continue to rely on mineral markets as they have existed, then the solution will always be more mining."
  —Dr. Javiera Barandiarán (16:07)

• "Lithium has always had a more important future than its present."
  —Dr. Javiera Barandiarán (28:09)

• "Lithium has a certain kind of rebelliousness and it refuses to be industrialized or commodified in any easy direct or linear way."
  —Dr. Javiera Barandiarán (37:31)

• "There's no such thing as writing, there's only rewriting."
  —Dr. Javiera Barandiarán (23:06)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Living Minerals Concept & Baselines: 04:25 – 07:48
• Rights of Nature & Critique of Scientific Authority: 08:20 – 11:49
• EVs, Sustainability, and Who Bears the Brunt: 12:30 – 16:22
• Resource Nationalism, Saudi Arabia/Bolivia Analogy: 17:58 – 22:17
• Methodology: Relational & Archival Work: 23:00 – 27:05
• Temporality, Scarcity, and Future Imaginaries: 28:03 – 33:18
• Mining Memories & Material-Energy Scholarship: 33:43 – 37:06
• Lithium’s Ontological Fluidity: 37:27 – 40:18
• Current Status of Lithium in Chile: 40:50 – 44:49
• Future Research Directions: 45:44 – 49:12
• Planetary Histories vs. Interscalar Vehicles: 50:36 – 53:05

Memorable Moments

• Dr. Barandiarán’s insistence on including local and ancestral voices alongside science in environmental policymaking.
• Her skepticism and critique of the development fantasies attached to minerals, especially the recurring notion of a “white oil” bonanza for South America.
• The pithy Chilean phrase on lithium: "Sooner or later, lithium won't be like nitrate or copper."
• The exploration of "ontological fluidity"—how even at a chemical level, lithium resists easy commodification, fueling economic and political speculation.

Conclusion

This episode offers a rich, nuanced discussion of lithium’s role in global sustainability efforts, rooted in historical, political, and material complexities. Dr. Barandiarán’s work challenges dominant techno-solutionist narratives and spotlights the voices, memories, and power relations at the heart of extraction. With an eye both to local realities and global flows, she advocates a more pluralistic, justice-oriented approach to environmental governance and energy transition.