New Books Network — Joanna Lillis on "Silk Mirage: Through the Looking Glass in Uzbekistan"

Podcast Host: Nicholas Gordon
Guest: Joanna Lillis
Date: February 19, 2026
Publisher: Bloomsbury (Book release: 2025)

Episode Overview

This episode centers on Joanna Lillis's latest book, "Silk Mirage: Through the Looking Glass in Uzbekistan," a vivid exploration of Uzbekistan's transformation under its two post-Soviet leaders: Islam Karimov and Shavkat Mirziyoyev. Drawing on decades of reporting experience and in-depth interviews with activists, former prisoners, journalists, and politicians, Lillis gives listeners a nuanced portrait of the country’s history, entrenched authoritarianism, ongoing reforms, and the lingering shadows of dictatorship. The conversation delves into personal stories, regime legacies, the complexities of reform, family power dynamics, and Uzbekistan's evolving role on the global stage.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Joanna Lillis's Connection to Uzbekistan

[01:51]

• Moved to Uzbekistan in 2001 after working in Moscow and for BBC Monitoring.
• Describes initial cultural and political shock:

  “I found that it was quite a culture shock, in actual fact, moving to Uzbekistan from Moscow ... the real reason for that was ... Moscow was very kind of rambunctious politically ... And then when I arrived in Uzbekistan, it was a real shock to realize quite, quite how repressive the environment was at that time.” — Joanna Lillis [03:10]

• Stayed until 2005, experiencing firsthand the depth of state repression.

2. Uzbekistan under Islam Karimov — Harsh Dictatorship

[04:47-11:11]

• Karimov’s rule (1991–2016) described as one of the world’s harshest dictatorships.
• The power of the security services (SNB) and chief Rustam Inoyatov instilled deep fear:

  “People would shudder when you mentioned the sort of SNB ... extremely afraid, not to mention terrified, to even touch on the topic of politics.” — Lillis [05:30]

• Extensive repression of independent religious practice—“religious prisoners” imprisoned for minor expressions of piety.
• Notorious torture, documented with the case of Jaslyk prison camp:

  “When I was in Uzbekistan ... there was a case where two young men ... had been tortured to death in Jaslyk. Now, they hadn't just been tortured to death, but the cause of their death appeared to be immersion in boiling water ... Karimov came to be known as the dictator who boiled his opponents to death, which wasn't quite accurate, but ... this was just the tip of the iceberg.” — Lillis [07:58]

• Interviewed survivors, including Aksam Tukunov, who advocates for former prisoners’ rights.

3. Islam Karimov’s Background and Rise

[11:31]

• Born 1938, Samarkand, tough childhood possibly spent in a children’s home.
• Rose through Soviet system (Gosplan, regional leadership, First Secretary in 1989).
• Became independent Uzbekistan’s first President almost by accident after the Soviet collapse:

  “He was just in a prime position to become the president of an independent country, because he was already in the job ... an accident of history.” — Lillis [13:24]

• Crushed opposition from the outset (1991’s rigged election vs. Muhammad Salih), monopolizing power until his death.

4. Gulnara Karimova — Corruption and Family Power

[16:53-25:33]

• Gulnara Karimova, Karimov’s daughter, symbolized crony capitalism, corruption, and nepotism.

  “She was in fact, in a WikiLeaks cable once described as the most hated person in Uzbekistan. And in my experience, that was actually correct.” — Lillis [18:12]

• Controlled telecoms, held diplomatic posts, was a pop star (“Googoosha”), and lived flamboyantly.
• Fall from grace after high-profile corruption scandals and internal family/public spats, ultimately imprisoned after secretive trials under Mirziyoyev.
• The legacy: Her case is a lesson for current rulers—cronyism, family enrichment, and the public’s growing intolerance for it.
• Mirziyoyev’s daughter Saida now occupies a key political role (chief of staff, branding), with some public concern over emerging new-family cronyism.

5. Shavkat Mirziyoyev — Continuity and Reform

[25:33-35:59]

• Mirziyoyev (b.1957), background as a Soviet technocrat, regional governor, and Karimov’s long-serving Prime Minister (14 years).
• Unexpected reformer:

  “When he came to power, nobody expected anything to change ... yet suddenly, and within a year, you know, Mirziyoyev was changing everything. He suddenly announced all kinds of liberalization.” — Lillis [28:10]

• Early reforms included media liberalization, reduction of forced labor in cotton, economic opening, and enhancing the business environment.
• Business owners and young entrepreneurs report positive changes, though red lines remain, especially regarding discussion of past crimes and current limits on free speech.
• Noted problem: Lack of reckoning with Karimov-era abuses—no formal truth and reconciliation, many convictions not overturned.

6. International Relations and Regional Dynamics

[36:59-42:25]

• Uzbekistan sits at the heart of Central Asia, with close ties and historic rivalry with Russia, China, the US, Turkey, Gulf States, India, and Pakistan.
• Lillis chose to focus more on internal dynamics than great power competition:

  “So much of the time in the international media, Central Asia is presented as kind of an object of this great power rivalry and as a region without agency... That’s why I focus on the internal story.” — Lillis [38:55]

• Mirziyoyev has dramatically improved relations with neighbors, ending disputes and fostering regional cooperation, unlike Karimov.

  "Uzbekistan becoming cooperative has suddenly opened up a new era of all the Central Asian states cooperating together amongst themselves." — Lillis [40:27]

• This cooperation may boost the region's global leverage but could raise tensions with Russia.

7. Unforgettable Interviews and Human Stories

[42:41-46:37]

• Lillis highlights two interviewees:
  • Isroiljon Kholdorov: Human rights activist, former political prisoner from Andijan (Karimov era).

    “At the end of the interview, I said to him, are you not bitter? ... he immediately responded that he was bitter about the way people live in poverty ... He was very happy after his release, but it was difficult for the people. I was amazed at this man and his ... empathy.” — Lillis [44:25]

  • Daulet Tažimuratov: (Mirziyoyev era) Political prisoner from Karakalpakstan, sentenced to 16 years post-unrest in 2022, maintains innocence, reportedly mistreated in custody.

    “I was very struck by his principledness and his dignity in the face of ... these kind of trials and tribulations." — Lillis [45:45]

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• On arriving in Uzbekistan:

  “It was a real shock to realize quite, quite how repressive the environment was at that time.” — Joanna Lillis [03:10]

• On the security services:

  “People would shudder when you mentioned the sort of SNB, people would kind of shudder and they wouldn't want to talk about it.” — Lillis [05:34]

• On Karimov’s legacy:

  “He was just in a prime position to become the president of an independent country ... an accident of history.” — Lillis [13:24]

• On Gulnara Karimova:

  “She was in fact, in a WikiLeaks cable once described as the most hated person in Uzbekistan. And in my experience, that was actually correct.” — Lillis [18:12]

• On Mirziyoyev’s reforms:

  “Within a year, you know, Mirziyoyev was changing everything. He suddenly announced all kinds of liberalization.” — Lillis [28:10]

• On the legacy of trauma:

  "Uzbek’s suffered such trauma as a nation under the Karimov dictatorship. And unless there's some discussion about that ... it will be very difficult for Uzbekistan to move on." — Lillis [35:36]

• On reframing Central Asia’s story:

  "...So much of the time in the international media, Central Asia is presented as ... a region without agency ... I focus on the internal story." — Lillis [38:55]

• On regional cooperation:

  "Uzbekistan becoming cooperative has suddenly opened up a new era of all the Central Asian states cooperating together amongst themselves." — Lillis [40:27]

Important Timestamps

• Background & Arrival in Uzbekistan: [01:51–04:47]
• Dictatorship & Repression: [05:08–11:11]
• Karimov’s Rise & Rule: [11:31–16:53]
• Gulnara Karimova & Cronyism: [16:53–25:33]
• Mirziyoyev’s Rise & Reforms: [26:00–35:59]
• International Relations: [36:59–42:25]
• Memorable Interviews: [42:41–46:37]

Tone & Final Reflections

Lillis’s tone is both measured and empathetic, blending journalistic detachment with deep personal investment in the stories of ordinary Uzbeks. She is candid in discussing the traumas of the past, realistic about the reforms of the present, and cautiously optimistic—emphasizing the agency of both the state and its people while recognizing ongoing challenges.

Further Reading & Contact

• Joanna Lillis’s work: Eurasianet, The Economist, various other outlets.
• Updates and features: Silk Mirage Substack
• Host: Nicholas Gordon, Asian Review of Books

This summary captures the heart of Lillis’s book and interview: a nuanced, on-the-ground portrait of Uzbekistan’s seismic shifts, ongoing struggles, and the resilient people striving for a better future.