Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Interview with Dr. Joanna Siekiera
Book Discussed: International Law and Security in the Indo-Pacific: Strategic Design for the Region (Routledge, 2025)
Host: Stephen Sikevich
Guest: Dr. Joanna Siekiera
Date: December 20, 2025

Overview

This episode features a conversation between host Stephen Sikevich and Dr. Joanna Siekiera, focusing on her edited volume, International Law and Security in the Indo-Pacific: Strategic Design for the Region. The discussion explores the multifaceted importance of the Indo-Pacific in the 21st century, examining the region’s geopolitical, legal, economic, and cultural dynamics through a multidisciplinary lens. The episode highlights how interconnected the world is to the region, the growing competition and cooperation among great powers, the significance of lawfare, and the region’s future challenges.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. About the Book and Author (01:55–04:56)

• Dr. Siekiera’s work aims to make the Indo-Pacific’s relevance accessible to both experts and the general public.
• She assembled a diverse team, including academics, military professionals, businesspeople, and contributors from across continents.
• “I love authenticity. I prefer to get people who dare to ask even less comfortable questions… their mindset, cultural, is also different. And I think this is very valuable.” (Dr. Siekiera, 06:43)

2. Composition of the Volume (08:22–10:49)

• Authors offer perspectives from China, Taiwan, India, Latin America, Africa, and Europe, reflecting the region’s global interconnectedness.
  • Example: Chinese-born authors writing on communism and its dangers (08:40).
  • Perspectives from Taiwan, India (two women), and Latin America “because when we look at the map, Latin America is also part of Pacific, but is usually forgotten.” (Dr. Siekiera, 10:02)
• Topics covered include military security, water security, climate change, and political shifts.

3. Why the Indo-Pacific Matters Globally (11:09–15:11)

• Importance: Demography, economy, logistics, shipping, supply chains, and decision-making all converge in the Indo-Pacific.
• The region is not just geographically distant but deeply linked to global stability, values, and law.
• “If we like or not… our two opponents… are there being China and Russia.” (Dr. Siekiera, 12:20)

4. Civilizational and Cultural Dimensions (15:11–17:18)

• Indo-Pacific contains complex civilizational interactions: India, China, Russia, Australia (a Western nation), and diverse local island cultures.
• Western nations must avoid assuming their values are universally shared.
• “We tend to live with this false idea that if we think one way, that everyone else does the same, but absolutely not.” (Dr. Siekiera, 15:54)

5. Major Powers in the Indo-Pacific

a. United States (18:00–21:14)

• The U.S. is a security guarantor, with a significant military presence.
• Dr. Siekiera argues the U.S. must maintain or expand its presence to preserve freedom.
  • “If US is not there, then guess what? Who is there? China.” (18:32)
• U.S. offers “freedom”, but the challenge is translating intangible values to populations seeking tangible benefits.
  • “Westerners… offer values which are intangible. But how to sell those values if those countries, they are poor?” (20:03)

b. China (21:14–22:51)

• China exploits colonial legacies and racial narratives to build influence.
  • “They know how to maneuver. They know how to use racial cards saying that hey, we are not white, so we understand you.” (21:34)
• China practices “neo-colonialism with communism” and state control; its aid often comes with strings.

c. India (22:51–27:02)

• India acts as a “balancer” but with ambitions for greater power and influence.
• Faces internal challenges (corruption, freedom, gender issues) but is essential for Western strategy.
• India-China relations are “hot and cold” with ongoing border disputes—recently, border skirmishes were fought with sticks and stones to avoid escalation.
  • “Their armies last year, they were fighting with stick and stones, guys. Stick and stone, not armor, not... heavy weapon.” (25:46)

d. Russia (28:12–34:01)

• Russia maintains influence via weaponry, shipping, and legal loopholes, even if not geographically central.
• “Russians… are truly smart because they are manipulating the existing legal norms, private international law.” (28:51)
• Warns against underestimating Russia; its global network and resilience are often overlooked.

6. Multi-Dimensional Competition & Cooperation (“Frenemies”) (35:13–38:50)

• Relationships are fluid: countries cooperate and compete simultaneously (e.g., US–China, India–China).
• The region rejects simple Cold War binaries; instead, dynamics resemble a “cool war."
  • “You have almost two, what you would normally think as mutually exclusive dynamics, but yet at the same time, they're happening at the same time.” (38:50)

7. International Law, Regionalism, and Lawfare (39:24–48:20)

• Legal cultures in the Indo-Pacific differ significantly from Western institutions.
• Countries increasingly prefer regional arrangements to global ones (“one size fits all” does not work).
  • Pacific Island Forum: an example of regional legality in action, addressing “ocean change” and territory loss (39:24).
• Lawfare: China and Russia practice “legal warfare”, exploiting ambiguities and the slow pace of international law.
  • “Chinese and Russians, they master legal warfare. They know how to maneuver, they know how to take away with any kind of responsibility.” (44:33)
• International law’s efficacy is limited if not universally observed (e.g., China’s rejection of South China Sea arbitration).

8. Military & Security Challenges (48:22–53:11)

• Security threats are increasingly complex: military build-up (China’s navy now surpasses the US’s), “grey-zone” tactics, mercenaries (Russian Wagner group), and legal tactics.
• Growing Chinese military pacts in Oceania (e.g., Solomon Islands) signify expanded presence.
  • “2019 a big wake up when Beijing signed a military pact with… Solomon Islands to build up a naval base.” (49:09)

9. NATO, Europe, and Strategic Readiness (51:27–59:55)

• NATO has only recently started mentioning China in strategic documents and lacks concrete legal/strategic tools for the Indo-Pacific.
• “We don’t have actually idea how to counter legal warfare in NATO. We are hopeless.” (Dr. Siekiera, 52:43)
• Europe remains largely indifferent, focused on Russia/Ukraine rather than the Indo-Pacific—posing strategic risks.
  • “To the general audience… they all focus on Russia, on war in Ukraine, and they don't see China as a threat anyhow, which again is only good for China.” (59:55)

10. Climate/Ocean Change as Security Issue (53:11–54:53)

• For island nations, “ocean change” is existential. Rising seas mean loss of territory and legal identity.
• China rapidly offers aid and infrastructure, filling the vacuum left by slower Western responses.

11. Agency of Microstates & Local Actors (54:53–57:59)

• Island states are not passive: they negotiate, bargain, and play larger powers against each other for maximum benefit.
• “They see them rather as opportunities who will come and who will give more. So therefore it's, it's very dangerous because they might even swallow communism at the promise of, you know, having some stability for the next decade.” (Dr. Siekiera, 57:24)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “I love authenticity. I never interfere into my author's way of thinking... I want them to be as authentic as possible.” (Dr. Siekiera, 06:43)
• “If US is not there, then guess what? Who is there? China.” (Dr. Siekiera, 18:32)
• “Freedom is not given forever. We must always be attentive and fight for freedom.” (Dr. Siekiera, 62:22)
• “We must start thinking like the perpetrator, like the war criminal… Because if you think like us, you will never understand the tools, the mentality of oppressions.” (Dr. Siekiera, 34:01)
• “We don’t have actually idea how to counter legal warfare in NATO. We are hopeless.” (Dr. Siekiera, 52:43)
• “Oceania lays between west and east, but also between past and future… I strongly recommend all of you to purchase the book, read it at your own pace, but also looking on the map…” (Dr. Siekiera, 62:47)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:55 Introduction to the Episode, Guest, and Book.
• 06:43 Dr. Siekiera on Selecting and Supporting Authentic Contributors.
• 10:49 Overview of Chapter Topics and Authors.
• 12:35 The Indo-Pacific’s Global Significance and Political Values.
• 18:25 The U.S. Role and Stakes in the Indo-Pacific.
• 21:34 Chinese Influence Techniques in Oceania.
• 23:17 India as a Regional Balancer and Its Challenges.
• 25:46 Description of India-China Border Skirmishes.
• 28:43 Russia’s Strategic Role and Influence Mechanisms.
• 35:13 Importance of Understanding Strategic Empathy.
• 39:24 Regional Versus Global Approaches to International Law.
• 44:33 Lawfare and Its Consequences in the Region.
• 49:09 Notable Security Developments: Chinese Base in the Solomon Islands.
• 51:44 NATO’s Preparedness (or Lack Thereof) for Indo-Pacific Challenges.
• 53:30 “Ocean Change” and Its Political Ramifications.
• 54:53 The Role and Agency of Pacific Microstates.
• 59:55 Europe’s Inattentiveness to the Indo-Pacific Challenge.
• 62:22 Last Reflections: The Perpetual Effort for Freedom.

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive look into the Indo-Pacific’s centrality to global security, law, and politics, through Dr. Siekiera’s edited volume. It argues for a multidimensional, culturally sensitive, and strategically flexible approach to the region—urging Western policymakers and audiences to pay closer attention lest they forfeit influence to competitors like China and Russia. The Indo-Pacific is not a distant theater, but a stage on which global futures will be decided.

Recommendation: Dr. Siekiera encourages readers to consult the book, reflect on its diverse perspectives, and always “look at the map” to understand the interplay of legal, cultural, and military dynamics shaping the region (62:47).