New Books Network Episode: Joelle Kidd, "Jesusland: Stories from the Upside Down World of Christian Pop Culture" (ECW Press, 2025) Host: Rebecca Buchanan Date: September 7, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Rebecca Buchanan interviews author Joelle Kidd about her new book, Jesusland: Stories from the Upside Down World of Christian Pop Culture. Kidd’s book explores the unique, parallel universe of evangelical Christian pop culture—its music, films, publishing trends, purity culture, and the complex relationship it has with capitalism, politics, and mainstream society. The conversation delves into Kidd's personal experiences growing up in the early 2000s Christian bubble and reflects on how this subculture shaped—and still shapes—the broader American and global landscape.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Origins and Motivation Behind the Book
[01:50–03:52]
- Kidd describes how her upbringing in a private Christian school and immersion in evangelical culture inspired the book.
- The initial inspiration came from a creative nonfiction course, which led her to reflect on her childhood and the “culture shock” of moving from secular to Christian pop culture.
- Research uncovered the depth in Christian pop artifacts and their political, social, and commercial implications.
"I started writing about that, and it turned into a bit of an obsession for me, and I started researching deeper into these pop culture artifacts. And, yeah, it just became apparent to me that there was a lot more to think about there in terms of the politics and the sort of messages that are being spread through these Christian subculture pop culture pieces." — Joelle Kidd [03:18]
2. The Early 2000s: Peak Christian Pop Culture
[04:16–06:25]
- The early 2000s marked the heyday of Christian bookstores, music, and publishing—profitable sectors before the Internet disrupted them.
- Kidd highlights the mainstream crossover of figures with Christian messaging (e.g., purity rings on pop stars), reflecting both a high point and a cyclical pattern resurfacing today.
"That decade was also when you saw much greater rise of political lobbying in the evangelical community and also more pop culture crossover." — Joelle Kidd [04:57]
3. Defining Evangelicalism and Its Link to Pop Culture
[06:48–08:44]
- Evangelicalism is less a denomination and more a “type” of Christianity focused on evangelizing and commercialization.
- Distinction between non-commercialized Mennonite Christianity (her background) and the capitalist-tinged evangelical subculture.
- Evangelical pop culture is inherently bound to the idea of selling itself and propagating its message.
"For me… the big dividing line in the book was the type of Christianity that's okay with selling itself. Like, that's really tied to capitalism." — Joelle Kidd [07:54]
4. Commercialization: Music, Movies, and "Specialty Bibles"
[09:53–12:22]
- Surge of Christian consumer goods: everything from pink, sparkly Bibles to teen girl magazine-style New Testaments.
- Blockbusters like The Passion of the Christ symbolized both mainstream “acceptance” and an ongoing persecution narrative within Christian communities.
“There was a Bible magazine... a teen girl magazine, but it had the Bible, the biblical scripture, I think the New Testament in the pages. But then they also had a bunch of quizzes and tips…” — Joelle Kidd [10:23]
“It kind of felt like a both and scenario where things were more popular than ever, but people felt more marginalized. Whether that was true or not.” — Joelle Kidd [12:11]
5. Christian Film: Industry, Volunteer Labor & Mega-Churches
[13:25–16:27], [17:22–17:51]
- Films made by figures like the Kendrick Brothers, who used mega-church volunteer labor to produce low-budget, high-grossing Christian films.
- Films mainly served those already in the faith, acting as “preaching to the choir.”
- Raises concerns about volunteer exploitation and lack of industry protections.
“They made them on a really shoestring budget. They made them with volunteer actors and crew, and they took in tons of money…Percentage wise, they made way more at the box office than Hollywood movies because they had such low overhead.” — Joelle Kidd [13:49]
“I think like a lot of people who grew up who going to evangelical school, church volunteering with Christian organizations, I think that rings pretty true as well...organized religion can really take advantage of that fact.” — Joelle Kidd [17:51]
6. Purity Culture: Rings, Pledges, and Real-World Impact
[18:52–23:25]
- Purity rings, abstinence pledges, and metaphors about virginity (like the “chewed gum” analogy) were widespread in the 1990s and 2000s for youth.
- Kidd gathered personal testimonies showing how deeply and universally these teachings affected young people across countries.
- Emphasizes the disconnect between these dogmas and actual Biblical text; highlights the harm of fear-based control of sexuality.
“It was really about capturing this young base and trying to like shore up a new generation of like right wing evangelicals to carry on Christianity.” — Joelle Kidd [21:14]
“It also just highlighted for me this strange kind of power that pop culture has where it seems so silly...But then, yeah, in the end, it has a real effect on people...it really, really can harm our psyches and our bodies and our emotional lives.” — Joelle Kidd [22:43]
7. Teaching Creationism (Intelligent Design) in Schools
[25:16–28:22]
- Discusses how “creationism” was rebranded as “intelligent design” to skirt court restrictions.
- Framing education around fear: teaching doctrine as protection against existential threats.
- Segregation of evangelicals through schooling policies and the rise of “parent’s rights” as political tools.
“I always felt like, I mean, the chapter on creationism, a lot of it is really about this kind of crisis of faith that I felt as a teenager...But I really did want to be a Christian. And I think there's just a real sense of fear.” — Joelle Kidd [26:14]
8. 9/11: Militarized Christianity, Martyrdom, and Islamophobia
[28:22–32:28]
- Post-9/11, evangelical leaders openly promoted a “masculine, warmongering Christianity,” often with overt Islamophobic rhetoric.
- Kidd contrasts “aggressive” Christian self-imagery with persistent persecution/martyrdom narratives, noting their historical use in political mobilization.
- Candia Moss’s research cited to show exaggeration of martyrdom stories.
“When I actually started reading books and sermons from the time, there was such a strong… There were so many pastors who were outright saying it, you know, that were saying, we're too weak, we need a masculine, warmongering Christianity, that to fight back, we need to, you know, crush our opponents…” — Joelle Kidd [29:31]
9. Christian Comedy’s Place in the Culture Wars
[32:28–33:16]
- Kidd observes that even within comedy, the siege mentality persists: claims of Christians being too easily offended, while pushing back against so-called “left-wing” comics.
- Notes the illogical defensiveness and aggressiveness running through much of evangelical culture.
10. Christianity and Capitalism: Televangelists, “Radical” Responses, and Imitation
[33:16–36:55]
- Tracks the rise and backlash of “prosperity gospel”—the idea that blessings from God are material, especially financial.
- Younger Christians aimed for “radical” rejection of capitalism, but Kidd claims it was mostly superficial; the capitalist infrastructure remained.
- The attempt to out-“authentic” televangelists often kept the underlying capitalist mechanics intact.
“How little of capitalism was actually being rejected. It was sort of just an aesthetic shift, I think, in retro, um. And there wasn't a lot of grappling with what it would actually mean to reject the system entirely…” — Joelle Kidd [35:23]
11. Apocalypse, Rapture, and End-Times Anxiety
[37:48–43:13]
- The “rapture” doctrine propagated by books like Left Behind (authored by Tim LaHaye, co-founder of the Moral Majority) fueled widespread fear and anxiety in youth.
- These visions of the end times are loosely based on narrow readings of scripture, but shaped millions of imaginations and voting blocks (notably in their disregard for environmental and geopolitical realities).
- Christian Zionism’s influence on support for Israel is mentioned.
“That really was taught as like a pressing concern that you should be thinking about a lot in your life, that everyone might just be whisked up to heaven at any moment. And I think for a lot of people who grew up with that, it became a fear or even, you know, a trigger for a lot of anxiety.” — Joelle Kidd [39:18]
“It starts to seem really callous because this is all motivated by a desire to escape the world and live this perpetual good life in heaven. But how sort of self centered that seems when you consider the amount of destruction and death that happens to our Environment and to our world and to other people on the back of that desire.” — Joelle Kidd [42:22]
12. Lasting Impact: Why This History Matters Now
[43:13–47:12]
- Kidd stresses how the mechanisms and messages from early 2000s evangelical pop culture are directly connected to current right-wing politics, anti-trans legislation, and present-day struggles over education and social issues.
- Warns that what might seem like “innocent” pop culture often carries loaded, lasting social and political consequences.
- Encourages listeners to recognize these historical threads in today’s influencer culture and political landscape.
“Some of these pop culture items seem innocent and in fact they're carrying some pretty loaded messages. And I think that's true as well when we extrapolate it out till today.” — Joelle Kidd [45:38]
“Maybe they don't have purity rings anymore, but they're still perpetuating this idea of purity culture. Or, you know, maybe we're not going to the Christian bookstore, but trad wives are teaching the same teachings through Instagram…” — Joelle Kidd [46:36]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “It was just so many products and I was sort of a new thing to have, like a sparkly pink Bible instead of the traditional leather bound kind of look.” [09:59]
- “It takes advantage a little of people's goodwill there.” [17:48]
- "That idea of eternity is so huge and so overwhelming that I didn’t even want to think about heaven, let alone hell." [39:24]
- “Christian influencers have probably taken the role that a lot of this pop culture had… but it's still there and it still has these kinds of messages.” [46:18]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- 01:50 – Kidd introduces the book’s origin
- 04:16 – Importance of early 2000s Christian pop culture
- 06:48 – Defining evangelicalism in pop vs. other Christianities
- 09:53 – Commercialization: Music, movies, Bibles
- 13:25 – Christian film industry & volunteer labor
- 18:52 – Purity culture: rings, pledges, and harm
- 25:16 – Creationism/intelligent design in education
- 28:22 – Post-9/11 effects: militarism, martyrdom, and Islamophobia
- 32:28 – Christian comedy and culture wars
- 33:16 – Capitalism vs. “radical” Christianity
- 37:48 – The Rapture and apocalypse anxiety
- 43:13 – Lasting impacts & why it all matters today
Closing & Further Information
Kidd encourages readers to see the deep connections between early 2000s Christian pop culture and today’s religious and political landscape. She’s promoting the book, available via ECW Press, Simon & Schuster, and bookstores (find her at joellekidd.com and @oelkid on Instagram), and plans to return to fiction writing in the future.
For listeners seeking a rich exploration of evangelical pop culture’s strange, sometimes silly, often disturbing, but persistently influential world, this episode offers an indispensable primer.