Podcast Summary: Jonathan Wilson, "The Power and the Glory: The History of the World Cup"

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Dr. Andrew Pace
Guest: Jonathan Wilson
Episode Date: February 8, 2026
Book: The Power and the Glory: The History of the World Cup (Bold Type Books, 2025)

Episode Overview

In this episode of the New Books Network, Dr. Andrew Pace interviews acclaimed football writer Jonathan Wilson about his new book, The Power and the Glory: The History of the World Cup. The conversation explores not just the sporting but the cultural, political, and globalization dimensions of the World Cup, how the tournament evolved, its role in nation-building, and its future amid ongoing expansion and controversy. Wilson draws on a century of football history, access to international archives, and personal experiences to provide a nuanced analysis of why the World Cup remains the world's preeminent sporting event.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jonathan Wilson’s Journey & The Need for a New History

• Background: Wilson details his path from aspiring academic to football journalist and author (01:56).
• The Spark for This Book: He acknowledges the earlier definitive work by Brian Glanville, noting the opportunity presented by the digital age—access to global archives and translations—to create a richer, more comprehensive account (04:00).
  • “We’re not just dealing in English… you’re dealing in every language. And that is an enormous boon to our generation of writers.” (04:47)

2. Origins of the World Cup: From Olympic Sideshow to Professional Showcase

• Early Days: Football overshadowed the Olympics by the 1920s, prompting a need for a standalone tournament (07:14).
• Professionalism vs. Amateurism: The World Cup was born partly in reaction to the strict amateurism of the Olympics, as global football became increasingly professional (08:12).
• FIFA’s Visionary: Jules Rimet’s diplomatic and moral leadership helped forge the first World Cup as a tool for global fraternity—though the results fell short of his ideal (09:58).
  • “He wanted football to be professional so it could be played by the widest people possible…” (09:00)

3. Politics, Nation-Building, and the Spectacle

• Politicization: Every host nation has used the tournament to build its image; the extremes are highlighted in Mussolini’s fascist Italy (1934), where the regime intertwined sporting glory with political messaging (13:25).
  • “For Mussolini, there’s two things going on… sporting prowess equals success of society.” (14:09)
• Symbolic Power: The World Cup acts both as an internal consolidation tool (nation-building) and as external projection (diplomatic legitimacy).
• Notable Quote: “And you see in the Italian papers… every time a foreign journalist has filed a report saying this World Cup has been incredibly well run… ‘Italy is this modern, sophisticated country’.” (16:55)

4. Sportswashing, Scandal, and the Paradox of Popularity

• From Politicization to Sportswashing: Recent hosts (Russia, Qatar) use the World Cup to launder reputations, assert independence, or shore up regime security, regardless of immense costs or ethical controversies (22:07).
  • Wilson’s reflections on the Qatar 2022 World Cup:

    “Every time I walked into a stadium… I could not but be aware of the human cost… And that on the one hand made it a very disturbing and difficult World Cup. At the same time, the football was amazing.” (22:32)

• The Pull of the Sport: The drama and emotional investment in the matches create complicity, even among those critical of host nations’ politics or human rights records.
  • “That’s why sportswashing works. So that’s the first point.” (26:14)
• FIFA’s Role: FIFA imposes infrastructural demands and appropriates profits, often leaving behind expensive ‘white elephants’, especially in Global South nations (26:45).

5. Expansion and Globalization of the World Cup

• Growing the Tournament: From 13 teams in 1930 to 48 in 2026, the tournament has evolved from a Europe-vs-Latin America competition into a truly global one (30:04).
• Qualitative vs. Quantitative Growth: Expansion raises logistical, competitive, and ethical questions: Can the spectacle and quality be maintained? Does the format make sense? (32:45)
  • “48 teams is just a bad number for a tournament… you have a lot of games… and there’s not much jeopardy on them. That is a potential problem.” (35:53)

6. Africa, Diaspora, and Shifting Football Powers

• The Rise—and Limits—of New Powers: Although there was optimism that Africa would win a World Cup by the end of the 20th century, the journey has been unevenly fulfilled, with Morocco’s 2022 semi-final run a recent high point (39:40).
• The Role of the Diaspora and Academies: The globalization of player education—European academies training players who then represent African nations—is key to recent successes.
  • “If you look at the final [African Cup of Nations]… there were only 29 [players] born in Africa… the rest born in Europe… That has proved beneficial to Africa.” (41:42)
• Flow in Both Directions: African-born players bolster European sides as well, exemplifying modern migration patterns and the complex negotiation of identity (46:08).

7. Cynicism and Hope: The Future of the World Cup

• Enduring Magic and Ubiquity: Wilson acknowledges the remarkable ‘self-correcting’ simplicity of football as a global phenomenon (48:24).
  • “Football is just an astonishing invention and it’s got this tremendous capacity to self correct… It’s a sport that somehow has this incredible internal balance.” (48:24)
• Risks Ahead: Yet he is wary about unchecked expansion, mounting fan distaste for scandal-prone FIFA leadership, and the potential for significant change if strong organizations (like UEFA) offer attractive alternatives (49:12, 52:45).
  • “There is a mounting distaste for FIFA, for Infantino… but that would require a strong UEFA…” (51:35)
• What Would it Take to End Football’s Dominance? The question remains open: If chariot racing could disappear, could the World Cup ever fade? (50:52)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Glanville’s Legacy and Writing the Definitive History:
  “It’s an old-fashioned kind of book. …Now we clearly have this access to this extraordinary range of information…”
  — Jonathan Wilson (03:47)
• On Sportswashing and Qatar 2022:
  “Every time I walked into a stadium… I could not but be aware of the human cost…”
  — Jonathan Wilson (22:32)
• On the Essential Nature of Football:
  “Football is just an astonishing invention and I think it’s got this tremendous capacity to self correct… it’s a sport that somehow has this incredible internal balance.”
  — Jonathan Wilson (48:24)
• On FIFA and the World Cup’s Future:
  “There is a mounting distaste for FIFA, for Infantino… but that would require a strong UEFA…”
  — Jonathan Wilson (51:35)

Timestamps of Important Segments

• Biographical intro and genesis of the book — [01:44–06:00]
• Origins of the World Cup — [07:14–12:42]
• Politics of nation-building and the World Cup — [13:25–18:32]
• Sportswashing and Qatar 2022 — [22:07–28:22]
• Global expansion and complexity of the World Cup — [30:04–36:27]
• Africa, diaspora, and football’s shifting power centers — [39:40–46:25]
• The soul of the World Cup: Cynicism and hope — [48:15–54:37]
• Jonathan Wilson on upcoming projects and the future — [55:12–57:05]

Conclusion & Takeaways

This episode offers a sweeping yet detailed conversation on the World Cup’s function as a mirror for global culture, politics, and economics. Wilson’s scholarship, passion, and skepticism help listeners appreciate both the grandeur and the deep ambiguities underlying the tournament’s history and future. The World Cup remains a unique ritual—capable of both elevating and undermining itself—reflecting the complexities and contradictions of the modern world.