Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Nicholas Gordon
Guest: Joseph Torigian, author of The Party’s Interests Come First: The Life of Xi Zhongxun, Father of Xi Jinping
Date: December 18, 2025

Overview of Episode’s Main Theme

This episode features an in-depth interview with scholar Joseph Torigian about his forthcoming biography of Xi Zhongxun—revolutionary, Communist Party leader, and father of current Chinese President Xi Jinping. The discussion illuminates Xi Zhongxun’s journey through pivotal moments in 20th-century Chinese history, his role within the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), and the personal and ideological challenges he faced. Torigian offers insights into elite CCP politics, the culture of loyalty and suffering, and the legacy that shaped both the Party and Xi Jinping himself.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Study Xi Zhongxun? (03:12)

• Xi’s significance: Not just as Xi Jinping’s father, but as a living thread through China’s turbulent modern history: warlord era, Republican struggles, CCP’s rise, purges, reform, and opening.
• The Party’s culture: The biography aims to reveal the motivations, internal debates, and enduring loyalty within CCP ranks.
  • Joseph Torigian (03:13):
    “To the extent that there’s a through line in his life, it’s how much he suffered at the hands of the Party, but nevertheless remained devoted to it.”

2. Xi Zhongxun’s Early Revolutionary Activities (04:38)

• Grew up in post-imperial turmoil in Shanxi—a land full of China’s historic greatness but mired in chaos.
• Became a teenage revolutionary amid Nationalist-Communist tensions; his first act was a failed assassination, earning him jail time, where he officially joined the CCP.
  • Joseph Torigian (04:38):
    “He first started getting interested in the Party when the Communists were still in an alliance with the Nationalists… at 15 years old, was ordered to commit his first revolutionary act.”

3. Northwest Base and Early Power Struggles (06:56)

• Helped establish a Communist base in northwest China, which later welcomed Mao after the Long March.
• Northwest power base became a lasting alternative power center—foreshadowing future intra-party tensions.

4. Role During the Second World War (08:14)

• Navigated complicated allegiances—sometimes cooperating, sometimes competing—with Nationalist forces.
• Developed skills in strategic alliance-making and political maneuvering along military and ethnic borders.

5. Ethnic Policies and United Front (09:51)

• As head of the Northwest Bureau, Xi was central in shaping CCP’s approach to China’s ethnic minorities.
• Used a mix of repression and co-option, notably forming a significant alliance with the Panchen Lama in Tibet.
  • Notable Quote (10:31):
    “To do work in the Northwest means doing ethnic work.”

6. Xi as an Administrator and Political Survivor (12:17)

• Frequently second-in-command to top reformers (Zhou Enlai, Hu Yaobang), tasked with making sense of—and surviving—often contradictory directives.
• Constant elite infighting and shifting ideological winds made official life precarious, requiring both principle and caution.

7. Elite Intrigue, Purges, and Rehabilitation (15:40-18:50)

• Gao Gang Incident: Xi almost purged alongside Gao, reflects treacherous relationships in Party hierarchy.
• First Purge: Triggered by permitting a novel about a revolutionary peer, interpreted as political subversion (“manifestation of class struggle”).
  • Joseph Torigian (18:50):
    “There’s a short answer and a long answer. The short answer is that it had something to do with a novel… interpreted as a manifestation of class struggle within the Party, and Xi is blamed for it.”

8. Culture, Memory, and Political Danger (21:29)

• CCP culture czars saw literature/film as barometers for class struggle, often sparking political crises.
• “Bitter Love” movie controversy in the 1980s: Xi, traumatized by earlier purges, refused to take sides in politicized cultural battles.

9. Endurance Through the Cultural Revolution (25:47)

• Suffered years in exile, solitary confinement, and persecution; lost a daughter and saw his family traumatized.
  • Torigian (26:25):
    “At one point… the Red Guards from Shanxi show up… put a mask on his face, put him on a train and drag him to Xi’an… persecuted to death during the Cultural Revolution… other children… exiled to the countryside.”

10. Return to Power and Role in Reform Era Guangdong (28:04, 30:26)

• Rehabilitation after Mao, appointed party leader in Guangdong, tasked with piloting reform (special economic zones, etc.).
• Played key role in igniting reforms but was skeptical of certain bottom-up initiatives like the ‘household responsibility system’.
  • Torigian (31:15):
    “The idea we often have in our heads about reformers versus conservatives, good guys versus bad guys within the party, doesn’t always fully grasp just the intricacies and the inconsistencies of these views…”

11. 1989 Tiananmen Protests & Late Career (32:16)

• As NPC Vice-Chairman, briefly posited as a potential broker for negotiations; ultimately sided with Party unity over student demands.
• After Tiananmen, suffered a mental breakdown, symbolizing decades of political and personal strain.

12. Xi Zhongxun’s Enduring Loyalty and the CCP’s “Redemption through Suffering” (37:27)

• Loyalty to the Party cemented by a conviction that Communism was China’s only hope; suffering validated resolve and leadership.
  • Torigian (37:27):
    “…There was this idea that only by creating a disciplined, cohesive weapon, in the sense of the Party, was the way out… suffering is a redemptive enterprise…”

13. Challenges of Writing the Biography (40:47)

• Censorship, secrecy, and Party’s own myth-making made research difficult.
• Torigian used PRC materials, foreign archives, personal interviews (including with the Dalai Lama), diaries, and memoirs to piece together a nuanced account.

14. Xi Zhongxun as a Mirror of Modern Chinese History (45:09)

• Xi’s life mirrors the CCP’s—and China’s—enduring obsessions: succession, the legitimacy of power, and generational transmission of ideology.
  • Torigian (45:09):
    “…one theme that comes out is how the Party has thought about the question of political order… Xi Jinping has described the third and fourth generation, meaning China’s current young people, as the moment of maximum vulnerability… and his answer is to use party history as moral education to inspire them.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• "To the extent that there's a through line in his life, it's how much he suffered at the hands of the Party, but nevertheless remained devoted to it." — Joseph Torigian, 03:13
• "At 15 years old, [Xi] was ordered to commit his first revolutionary act, to kill an academic administrator at his school… While he's in that jail, he officially joins the Party." — Joseph Torigian, 04:38
• "To do work in the Northwest means doing ethnic work." — Joseph Torigian, 10:31
• "Even very small missteps can have huge implications for these people… Xi Zhongshun was shocked about just how tough the response was…" — Joseph Torigian, 18:50
• "Suffering is a redemptive enterprise; that forging is something that doesn't just reveal your mettle but also strengthens it." — Joseph Torigian, 37:27
• "The idea we often have in our heads about reformers versus conservatives... doesn't always fully grasp... the intricacies and the inconsistencies of these views of people." — Joseph Torigian, 31:15
• "Cultural czar Zhou Yang: Culture is the barometer for class struggle." — paraphrased by Joseph Torigian, 21:29

Key Episode Timestamps & Segments

• 03:12 — Significance of Xi Zhongxun as a historical figure
• 04:38 — Xi’s early revolutionary career, prison, Party membership
• 06:56 — Northwest Communist base and early elite politics
• 09:51 — Ethnic policy formation and the United Front
• 12:17 — Xi’s approach to governance and Party infighting
• 15:40 — The Gao Gang incident and dangers of elite intrigue
• 18:50 — First purge, the perils of Party history and novels
• 21:29 — Party’s approach to culture, censorship, and recurring crises
• 25:47 — Xi's persecution during the Cultural Revolution
• 28:04 — Rehabilitation and Guangdong reforms
• 30:26 — Xi’s role and limits in economic transformation
• 32:16 — Tiananmen protests and late-in-life breakdown
• 37:27 — Ideological roots of Party loyalty and endurance
• 40:47 — Researching behind Party secrecy, methodology
• 45:09 — What Xi Zhongxun’s life tells us about China and CCP succession

Further Resources

• Joseph Torigian’s work: Personal website/Twitter/Bluesky
• Coming Project: A history of China’s nuclear and missile programs during the Cultural Revolution

This episode provides a sweeping, textured account of Xi Zhongxun—both the man and the political system he helped shape—serving as a window into both the past and present of Chinese state power.