Kate Haulman, "The Mother of Washington in Nineteenth-Century America" (Oxford UP, 2025)

Summary

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Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Interview with Dr. Kate Haulman
Book: The Mother of Washington in Nineteenth-Century America (Oxford University Press, 2025)
Host: Dr. Miranda Melcher
Guest: Dr. Kate Haulman
Date: September 23, 2025

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Overview: Main Theme and Purpose

This episode explores Dr. Kate Haulman’s latest book, The Mother of Washington in Nineteenth-Century America, which traces the evolution of Mary Ball Washington, George Washington’s mother, as a figure of public memory. The conversation unpacks how and why Mary Ball Washington became such a significant symbolic figure in nineteenth-century America—decades after her death—and how her image and story were leveraged to shape national ideals of motherhood, commemoration, and gender politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Genesis of the Project

• Personal and Scholarly Roots: Dr. Haulman discusses how her interest in women's and gender history, cultural memory, and a personal experience with her mother’s passing seeded the idea for this book. She originally planned a biography, but shifted focus after learning of other biographies in production, resulting in a work centered on Mary Washington's afterlife and memory in public culture.
  • “This book is at the intersection of...women’s gender history and interest in perhaps writing a biography...initially, I had conceived of it as both a biography...and a history and memory project.” (03:05, Haulman)
• Project Evolution: Editors advised her to focus on either biography or public memory. Haulman chose the latter, especially given the burgeoning interest and new biographies in the field.

2. Mary Ball Washington: Brief Life Overview

• 18th Century Origins: Born to the gentry of Virginia, experienced substantial family upheavals and inherited property and enslaved people at a young age.
• Marriage and Motherhood: Married Augustine Washington and bore children, including George Washington. Remained a widow after Augustine’s death, likely to protect her family’s assets and independence.
• Later Life: Moved to Fredericksburg, Virginia, in her old age, passing away in 1789.
  • “She lives a long and somewhat eventful life in a nutshell.” (08:34, Haulman)

3. Initial Memorialization – Or Lack Thereof

• Scant Immediate Remembrance: Contrary to expectations, Mary’s death in 1789 did not prompt significant public commemoration. Obituaries focused as much on George as Mary, and whatever rituals occurred faded quickly.
  • “If that’s the early glimmer of her public memory, it’s just that. And it fades very quickly.” (10:00, Haulman)

4. Emergence of the Mother of Washington Figure (1820s onward)

• Historical Context—Anniversary Culture: The 1820s, marked by the 50th anniversary of the Revolution, were a moment of expanded commemorative energy and nostalgia for the Revolutionary era.
• Custis’s Article: George Washington Parke Custis, Washington's adopted son, authored a widely read article calling for Mary’s public remembrance and a monument at her grave.
  • “So begins the mother of Washington figure and the idea of a monument, memorial to her.” (11:59, Haulman)

5. Broader Memory, Race, and Religion in the Figure's Construction

• Mothers Claiming Public Roles: The idea of “Christian Republican motherhood” was contested terrain; different groups used motherhood to justify political agency—abolition, Native removal, etc.
• Mary as Ideal: Mary Ball Washington became the paragon of white, Christian, pious motherhood, serving as a mostly unspoken but pointed counterpoint to enslaved mothers and other marginalized groups (14:22-16:44).
  • "What further proof would you need of ideal motherhood than having raised a son such as George Washington?" (15:50, Haulman)

6. Canon of Stories about Mary Washington

• Legend-Building: Stories around Mary as a model mother arose or were embellished—such as the “sorrel colt” tale (highlighting honesty) and her resistance to George joining the British Navy (providence and obedience).
  • “I rejoice in my son who has told me the truth and always tells the truth.” (18:38, Haulman)
  • "...discouraging him from joining the British Navy, she was, along with the hand of Providence, was saving him for something much greater." (19:28, Haulman)

7. Struggles and Delays in Physical Monumentation (1820s–1890s)

• Faltering Efforts: Despite early ceremonial gestures (Andrew Jackson laid a cornerstone in 1833), the monument to Mary Washington languished, remaining unfinished and falling into ruin for over fifty years.

  • “So there is this partial…almost looks like a very small temple that the base is finished...And that stays in that incomplete, unfinished state for a long time.” (24:06, Haulman)

• Public Embarrassment and Renewal: The revival of interest in the 1880s stemmed from the completion of the Washington Monument and the advent of new (spurious) portraits of Mary.

• Final Completion: The ultimate catalyst came when the monument grounds were put up for public auction in 1889, inciting outrage and prompting women’s organizations—both local and national—to collaborate (sometimes tensely) on finishing the memorial. The monument was finally completed in 1894.

  • “The grave of Mary, mother of Washington, should be publicly auctioned. What is wrong with people...that they have not managed to properly memorialize the mother of Washington?” (30:22, Haulman)

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8. Women’s Leadership in Commemoration

• A “Women’s Task”: From the beginning, the work of memorialization—fundraising and organizing—was consistently framed as appropriate, even necessary, for women to lead.
  • “There’s this idea that [it] should be women’s groups...to raise money for and make this come to fruition.” (32:03, Haulman)
• Internal Tensions: Disagreements arose over the monument’s design—more austere obelisk vs. ornate structures with friezes or busts. Ultimately, the national group’s vision prevailed.

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9. Changing Meanings in the 20th Century

• Transformation of Memory: While the “Mother of Washington” figure persisted into the twentieth century, she became more ambiguous—recast from the idealized, almost saintly mother of the 1800s into “bad mommy Mary”: needy, controlling, or an obstacle to George’s greatness.
  • “By the mid 20th century...there’s a real reversal. The mother of Washington figure…is inverted. And she becomes bad mommy Mary, difficult, needy, controlling…a mother who was, in fact, not ideal, but he succeeded despite her, not because of her…” (34:00, Haulman)

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10. Surprising Discoveries and New Directions

• Unexpected Monumental Neglect: Dr. Haulman was struck by the monument’s long period of neglect, including defacement and even use as target practice, reflecting the patchiness of cultural memory.
  • “Many accounts talk about it being defaced, graffiti…used for target practice. Not treated very respectfully or reverently at all. And that definitely surprised me.” (36:39, Haulman)
• Future Research: She hints at a new project delving into Virginia’s distinct commemorative and historical identity, especially before the establishment of the Virginia Historical Society in 1831.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On biography vs. memory:
  "I often call it a biography that begins in death, which I think is kind of interesting too." (05:23, Haulman)

• On 19th-century ideals:
  "She is the mother of Washington and she embodies all those virtues in this moment that are so important to so many." (15:35, Haulman)

• On commemorative failures:
  "It literally gets off the ground, the base is built, and then it stalls out and it stays that way for decades. So there is this partial...unfinished state for a long time." (24:06, Haulman)

• On women's role in memorialization:
  “Women of the nation, women of the United States, should come together and do this.” (32:42, Haulman)

• On the evolution of Mary’s image:
  “The mother made the man”—that was the view in the 19th century. But by the mid-20th century, “he succeeded...despite her, not because of her.” (34:53, Haulman)

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Important Segment Timestamps

• Dr. Haulman introduces herself and project origin: 02:31–04:37
• Summary of Mary Ball Washington’s life: 05:21–08:43
• Mary’s immediate memorialization: 09:12–10:22
• Emergence of public memory (Weems, Custis, and monument calls): 10:26–12:30
• Memory, race, and Christian motherhood: 14:22–16:44
• Key stories and their symbolic function: 16:47–19:45
• First and second attempts at monument building: 24:06–31:55
• Women’s organizations and monument completion: 31:55–33:44
• Shift in Mary’s image during the 20th century: 33:44–35:06
• Surprising research finds (monument neglect and women’s group tensions): 35:29–38:21
• Preview of future research interests: 38:45–39:56

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Conclusion

This episode provides an in-depth look at how the memory of Mary Ball Washington, largely invisible in her own lifetime, was woven into nineteenth-century American culture as a vessel for evolving national ideals around gender, race, and commemoration. The book and conversation illuminate how myth-making, memory contests, and gendered activism transformed Mary Washington into a perennial yet ever-changing figure in America’s symbolic landscape.

For further reading:
The Mother of Washington in Nineteenth-Century America by Kate Haulman (Oxford UP, 2025)

Transcript

[Dr. Kate Holman]

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[Dr. Kate Holman]

Welcome to.

[New Books Network Host]

The New Books Network.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Hello, and welcome to another episode on the New Books Network. I'm one of your hosts, Dr. Miranda Melcher, and I'm very pleased today to be speaking with Dr. Kate Hulman about her book titled the Mother of Washington in 19th Century America, published by Oxford University Press in 2025. Now, this title immediately gives us an interesting puzzle that we're going to be examining, because of course, the mother of Washington, George Washington, the first president of the United States, was not born in 19th century America. That's what makes this so interesting because it turns out the mother of Washington figure was actually quite a big deal in 19th century America, despite the fact that she was dead and had been for kind of a while and wasn't necessarily that big a deal while she was alive. So that gives us a great historical puzzle to investigate, as I'm sure we will in this conversation. So, Kate, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Thank you so much for having me.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Miranda, could you please start us off by introducing yourself a little bit and tell us why you decided to write this book?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Sure. As you just said, I'm Kate Holman. I'm an associate professor of history at American University in Washington, dc. I'm A historian of early America, as well as women's gender history, cultural history, public history. And this book is at the intersection of. Really combines all those interests. For me, it probably comes first out of my training in an interest in women's gender history and interest in perhaps writing a biography at some point and some years ago. I won't say exactly how many, but I talk about this in the acknowledgments. The idea for it actually came to me as my own mother was very sick and ultimately died. Not to bring things way down, but I think I was reflecting a lot, not only on mothers and motherhood, but on memory. And I was aware, too, that we were approaching the 250th of the American Revolution. That'll be next year. And so I think these things combined the autobiographical, the biographical, our moment to make me interested in this project. And initially, I had, in fact, conceived of it as both a biography of Mary Ball Washington, George's mother, and a history and memory project. And I recall an editor at the time said, well, that's really kind of two books in one, and I think you'll have to choose. And I kind of filed that away, and I started working on the 19th century stuff first. And that turned out to be fortuitous in a couple of ways because, you know, it led to the book that I then wrote. But also I learned that there were about to be two biographies of Mary Washington coming out in the. In the next. In the coming couple of years. And there hadn't been a really good scholarly one maybe at all, certainly not in a long time. And so I thought, well, you know, then I'll just. I will. I will make this really. These. These biographies will really help me, but I will focus in on the history, the public memory of Mary Washington, the mother of Washington figure.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

I always enjoy book origin stories because they're never kind of as obvious as the idea came fully formed into my head. And that was it, right? There's always a bit of a path to get there.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

I mean, always evolving, you know, projects. Always evolving throughout.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Oh, no, absolutely. And in fact, it is that kind of initial goal of the project that I wonder if we can stay on just for a moment. Because, of course, as you said, you did not end up writing a biography. In many ways, I think this is more interesting than a biography. But in order to understand the book that you did write, I think we do need a little bit of context about Mary Ball Washington in life before we can then start talking about her in death and memory. So can you give us a brief sketch of her life.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

I can. I mean, I will say too, that I often call it a biography that begins in death, which I think is kind of interesting too. But. But to go back to the. The life which you're interested in, because of course, we have to know it's important to. Of her life before we can think about her afterlife, her memory. She was born in the first decade of the 18th century in the northern neck of Virginia to the Ball family. She was born Mary Ball to a fairly prominent established family, although not among the Virginia oligarchy, I wouldn't say, but born to wealth and privilege. And she experienced some upheavals early in life that both speak to, you know, upheavals, but also her welcome privilege. Her father died when she was very young, just a few years old, and left her bequeathed to her both land and several enslaved persons. So she became, not really at the age of four, but a property holder, or she would a majority and an enslaver at a young age. She. So her mother remarried and then her stepfather died. Her mother died. So she really did have a number of upheavals. She went to live with an extended family member and was raised up in ways that we consider typical of her station as a member of a female member of the Virginia gentry. She married Augustine Washington, George's father, in her early 20s. He was a widower and had a couple of sons by his first wife. So she became a stepmother. They set up household on a large tract of property on the Rappahannock, and eventually they shortly thereafter started having children their own, their first being George. So then she becomes. She doesn't quite become the mother of George, but George is her first child. So they are married. He dies. Augustine, not George, dies in the early 1740s and she becomes a widow and interestingly, never remarries. Ops to never remarry. And I read this in a couple of ways. One that she just wants to kind of safeguard her own independence. Also, she might be trying to safeguard her children's inheritance that might be in jeopardy if she were to remarry and that person have children and under the rules of coverture, kind of take over her own property holdings in land and enslaved people. So she. She lives a long life in the 1770s. So she is living on a property now called Ferry Farm outside of Fredericksburg, Virginia. In the 1770s, she moves, or George, we think, decides to move her into the town of Fredericksburg to be near his sister, her daughter Betty, and her husband and family. And so by then she's quite, quite aged, especially for the 18th century, and lives there and dies in 1789. She's in her early 80s of, basically of breast cancer. And so that is her very long and somewhat eventful life in a nutshell.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Obviously, that is asking you to gloss over loads of details, but it does give us a starting point which is really helpful, given then that by the time she dies, George Washington, her son, is obviously really famous and really important. We therefore might assume that the moment of her death, that her funeral, for example, might be a really key moment where we start to see this kind of memory culture develop around her life. Is that what happened?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

No, I mean, in fact, perhaps, as you say, surprisingly not. We kind of assume that she had a funeral. There's not a lot of direct evidence of it. The evidence is from later accounts, but she would have in Anglican style. She was Episcopalian also. There are a couple of other rituals kind of surrounding her death. There's an obituary, not a very long one, but one that is as much about George as about her. The venerable mother of the illustrious President of the United States, it calls her, and George Washington, and political elites, political society, go into a period of official public mourning. And that required. That meant mourning dress for a time. So that would all be in the months after her death. But. But then her. If that's the early glimmer of her public memory, it's just that. And it fades very quickly. So it's not really at that moment that there is a robust public memory and engagement with that for Mary Washington.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

So then when is the moment? Because that would seem like an obvious one.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Right. I guess the first time we see some real attention to her years after her death is in an addition, I believe it's the sixth of Mason Locke Weems Life of Washington, the very famous biography of George Washington, very didactic, very glowing. And there's some treatment of Mary as the mother of Washington in Weems and those that book goes through editions into the 19th century, but really it's the 1820s when we see it's more sustained public attention to Mary Washington and the emergence of the mother of Washington figure. And that's because in the mid-1820s, 1825, 26, the country is looking at the 50th anniversary of 1776 and the war for Independence. And so there's a remembrance memory culture afoot in general in the country. And then more specifically, George Washington Parke Custis, the adopted son of George and Martha Washington and the keeper of the Washington memory Self appointed, the Washington flame decides to write a piece called the Mother of Washington, publishes it in the National Gazette in Philadelphia, and it's this memoir, you know, a memory piece, an account, a sketch of Mary Washington as the mother of George and a call for her to be publicly remembered and memorialized with a marker, a monument at her grave, ostensible grave in Fredericksburg, Virginia. And so begins the mother of Washington figure and the idea of a monument, memorial to her.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Okay, that's helpful to understand as a starting point. But you mentioned this was happening kind of, because memory more broadly was a big thing at this moment. So can you tell us more about these broader discussions around memory and commemoration?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Well, I mean, it's really the United States first big anniversary, if you will, of its, of its, of its birthday. So, you know, for example, the Marquis de Lafayette comes to the United States at the invitation of President Monroe and begins a long couple year grand tour, and people turn out to see him. He's the hero, one of the heroes. Washington, of course, is dead of the American Revolution. That's also part of this moment, is that revolutionary generation, if not already gone, is dying. Right. John Adams and Thomas Jefferson famously die same moment, 1920s. So that's part of. There is this sense of nostalgia, of remembering very public, very celebratory that's happening at this moment. And so the mother of Washington and remembering her, especially for a guy like Park Custis and others, members of the extended Washington family, they want to make sure that they're in on the action too.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Got it. Okay. So that's definitely helpful to understand this isn't coming out of nowhere. And this has a bunch of other ideas attached to it. Right. Celebrating, as you said, sort of a big birthday. You also talk about in the book, there are some specific ideas around race and religion that are being incorporated into this mother of Washington figure too. So can you tell us about kind of those conceptions of motherhood and kind of her figuring within that?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Well, I think that once the mother of Washington figure, Parke Custis kind of creates it, then it has a bit of a life. And certainly in print culture, in biographies of George, there is increasing attention to her, her role in his life. And that's because this is a moment where mothers and motherhood and a certain vision and version of it are, are important in the country and, and. But also contested, you know, who gets to claim Christian, the pious domestic motherhood and for what purposes. And for those writing about Mary Ball Washington, she is all of that par excellence. Right. She is the she is the mother of Washington and she embodies all of those virtues in this moment that are so important to so many. And again, there's this kind of sense that that existed more and more purely in the past and in the founding era. And the proof is in Mary, but also in George. Right. What further proof would you need of ideal motherhood than having raised a son such as George Washington? All of these, this particular, like I said, vision and version of motherhood is for some very much coded white. Again, this are kind of contested and we know that a lot of enslaved women in this period sort of bracket free, free black women, but enslaved women are denied the. These kind of privileges and protections of motherhood. As I talked about them. The other sort of race piece is that we know that Mary Washington was an enslaver, a slaveholder. And I think that lurks behind the figure of the mother of Washington. But in this period, the antebellum period, there's no explicit attention to slavery or enslaved people in her stories. And that's important to emphasize too, because what happens between the 1820s and 1850s is what I call a canon of stories about Mary, often involving George, but not always kind of congeals comes to being. And so. And some of those are still stories are, are still with us today.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Do you want to give us any examples? Oh, sure.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

And. And some are. Are more as told to and others are borne out by the documentary record. You know, as historians we would look to that one is what I call the sorrel cult tale. And this is a tale that originates with Park Custis and sort of supplants or attempts for it to supplant Mason Locke Wiggs's cherry tree tale as the origin of George's fabled truth telling and honesty. And in this story, Mary, who was a noted horsewoman and George a good horse rider as well, had horses had a favorite. And that was apparently very unbridled, unwieldy. And George one morning was out and with friends and attempted to break the horse and riding it, trying to break it. And in the process the horse died. George bested the horse in one way, I guess, but the horse died. He comes in, she asked him, almost as if she suspects, she's like, have you seen my favorite blooded colt? And he says, madam, the horse is dead. And she is sort of flushes with a moment of anger, but very restrained and says, you know, I'm sad for this, but I rejoice in my son who has told me the truth and always tells the truth truth. Paraphrasing so that's one story. Another is that the what I call the British Navy episode where George wanted to join the bridges, as it sounds, join the British Navy at in his teens, at the age of 14, and was being encouraged by some to do so and she doesn't want him to and she pleads with him not to do it and he is very torn because he wants to and he perceives a life of adventure on the seas. I don't know if it would have been exactly that, but she prevails and he honors her and it's a show of filial love in the hands of writers and also respect that he decides that he will not go and then the writers even beginning with Weems, but others I'm trying to think Wems, but also Park Custis make a lot of this that it was providential, right? So her almost connection to God, her knowing that in encouraging him or discouraging him from joining the British Navy, she was, along with the hand of Providence, was saving him for something much greater.

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[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Got it. Yeah, those are definitely some stories that give us a sense of what's being discussed at this point. Why did these stories matter? Like why did it matter if she was this amazing white Christian ideal of motherhood? Why was that relevant? I mean, yes, okay, people like stories, but this really seems to be bigger than that, right?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Well, I think it's because in this period, you know, like the book is in part about ideas and ideals of motherhood and contests over that. Because this is a period in which women in the United States of different backgrounds and groups are, are laying claim to motherhood, grounding their engagement with the state with politics, which things with things of public interest such as the removal campaigns, the indigenous groups of the Southeast, certainly anti slavery and abolition, grounding their ability to speak and act, petition on those causes in their motherhood in part mothers, actual mothers and figure mothers of the republic. And so for that, that's, that's, you know, for others that feels like dangerous territory, like using this thing that others regard as private, domestic to in public ways. So and also for the women who, or many of the women who are engaged in these public causes, these political issues, they are, you know, not only we are mothers, we are Christian mothers and we do this out of our sense of Christian duty and obligation. So the mother of Washington serves as a counterpoint to that because there's like we are, you know, Republic Christian Republican mothers, others saying no, this is really the correct version of, of the Christian ideal mother and she is not one who would have ever engaged in these kinds of public political activities.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Always interesting to see when ideal types are being constructed and kind of what that is speaking to at that particular moment. But of course you mentioned earlier that this Isn't just about discourses or sort of stories that are being told. There's also a goal to have a physical monument. Did that actually happen at this point?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Well, yes and no. It got underway. It was in the late 1820s, early 1830s. Back in 1833, Andrew Jackson comes down and lays a cornerstone to a monument to Mary Ball Washington in Fredericksburg at the site, at her grave site, the ostensible site where she's buried. And to great fanfare, you can imagine. I mean, it's a town event. He speaks. George Washington Bassett speaks. Who's one of the people? Local guys, members of the extended Washington family involved in this campaign, as is Parke Custis, to get a monument to Mary. And so it does. It literally gets off the ground, the base is built, and then it stalls out and it stays that way for decades. So there is this partial. It almost looks like a very small temple that the base is finished. They get as far as bringing this shaft of marble, the obelisk that was to top the base and there and that. That's it. And that stays in that incomplete, unfinished style state for a long time. And yet people, still, many people believe that there is a monument, and I guess there is in part to Mary Washington. And go to visit it, kind of almost making a pilgrimage to it, as one would to Mount Vernon, for example. I mean, not as prominent or famous as that. And then find to their shock and dismay that it's in fact, you know, in this. In this state that it's not finished. And it's pretty sort of probably an odd looking.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Yeah, it definitely doesn't. You know, when you say the word monument in your head, you might imagine a finished, shiny product. And that doesn't seem to be quite what we get at this point. But that isn't where the story ends. In fact, you discuss that if we zoom forward to the 1880s, the mother of Washington idea comes back.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Why, I will say too, that, you know, you can imagine between the 1830s and late in the 19th century. I mean, the, you know, it really. It's unfinished and then it just kind of runs to ruin and it becomes kind of a ruin and almost a romantic site ruin and that. So it really, it has an interesting, you know, career through the middle of the 19th century. By the 1880s, the mother of Washington figure enjoys a kind of resurgence in her public memory for a couple of reasons. One is due to the completion of the Washington Monument here in Washington, D.C. and it had also been unfinished for a long time, started before the. Well before the Civil War and then unfinished and kind of a national embarrassment. And Congress and everybody wanted it finished for the centennial, the next big anniversary of 1776 and 1876. That didn't happen. They appropriated funds for it, and they considered funds, appropriating funds for the completion of. Of Mary's monument, but they did not. But the Washington Monument went forward and indeed was completed in the mid-1880s. So that's part of it. There's sort of renewed attention to Washington. Washington, to monuments in general. The Ball family, so, you know, George's maternal family, Mary's family members, ancestors of that family, kind of come forward and want to be in. In the mix and kind of recognized as part of this. So that's part of it. Also in the 1880s, there are two portraits of Mary Washington discovered, neither authenticated, as it turns out, but there are two books that talk about George and about his life and Mary also generally that talk about these two portraits of her as a young woman. And so that, too, garners attention to her. And one of the things that's interesting to me about these portraits, portraits, again, one is very. Neither has been authenticated. One is very obviously a 19th century production. The other looks more authentically 18th century, is that they are of her as a young, beautiful, genteel lady. And the images that before this, in the middle of the 19th century, she'd been pictured, not portraits, but probably Prince pictured with George and an aged figure, right, the aging mother of Washington. And they're saying goodbye. And this moment of kind of, you know, where the union is coming apart and of kind of concern and loss. And so then by the 1880s, because of interest in ancestry and lineage and genealogy, not new then, but probably a little more, perhaps widespread, you get this new image, literal image of the mother of Washington.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

That's really interesting, the visual aspect of this generating conversation. Do we get a monument then this time?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Well, almost, yes. In the 1880s, this is part of it. There's renewed attention. And then the real catalyst for the completion of the monument at long last is in 1889. So this would have been the centennial. This would be the centennial of George Washington's inauguration. So again, many anniversaries, many opportunities to commemorate, to remember the area, the parcel of land and around the partial monument to Mary Washington. And so. And the monument itself is. Is sold from one person in Fredericksburg to another couple of guys, real estate agents, developers, who then put it up for public auction in D.C. and this generates such an outcry that. That the grave Site, there's a broadside. The grave of Mary, mother of Washington, should be publicly auctioned. What is wrong with people with Fredericksburgians, with Virginians, with whomever, that they would do this, that they have not managed to properly memorialize the mother of Washington? And so this is a real catalyst in the wake of this. The two women's organizations, one in Fredericksburg, so local and one national, headquartered in Washington, D.C. but with. But with truly national reach, organized to complete the monument to Mary Washington, come together, publicize, fundraise, and so into the. They start their work in 1890. And then in the. The Mary Washington Monument, they come together and complete in 1894.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

All right, so we finally have a monument. Took a while.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Took a while. Took. And it was not. I mean, it was a quick process relative to the decades that had come before. But these two. There's a little bit of friction between the two women's groups. There's problem fundraising. You know, they're trying to get money for that, raise enough money. Congress is not going to appropriate the money. And I will say, too, that from the monument's inception, really starting almost with Park Custis, starts in the 1820s, and you see this throughout the 19th century, there's this idea that should be women's groups. It should be women's work to do this, to raise money for and make this. Make this come to fruition, as in.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Women'S organizations themselves took it on or were told where. This is only going to happen if you care.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

No, it's like, why the languages. And again, it just pops up periodically that women, women of the nation, women of the United States should. Should come together and do this. And, you know, once you get something like the Mount Vernon Ladies association, the group that forms to put on what, Save Mount Vernon and rescue it and rehab it, ultimately even more so. Right. And women were involved in. Even earlier in fundraising for the Bunker Hill Monument in Boston. So there is precedent for this. So that's the constant call. And then finally, in the late 1880s, 1890, women of both Fredericksburg and D.C. heed the call.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Got it. Okay. So finally, pieces are coming together. Is that the kind of end moment, though? I mean, to some extent, you'd go, yay, we finally got the monument up there. Done. Does the mother of Washington figure continue into the 20th century?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

She does, but in different form. And throughout the 19th century, the mother of Washington figure is evolving, you know, acquiring new layers, more Christian and then more well born and more attention to her as a slaveholder, you know, to the Plantation born by the late 19th century, drawing from plantation fiction. So the. The mother of Washington figure is never entirely stagnant in the 20th century. Some of those trends from the 19th century persist into the early 20th century. But the. But one of the things that happens in. By the mid 20th century is there's a kind of real reversal. The mother of Washington figure, that Mary, almost mother of Christ, as one writer deems her in the 19th century, that is inverted. And she becomes bad mommy Mary, difficult, you know, needy, controlling all. And some of those stories, some of those very stories about, you know, the British Navy episode get recast reread in these terms as somebody. As a mother who was, in fact, not ideal, but he succeeded the. Despite her, not because of her. Whereas with the 19th century, it's like, hey, the mother made the man.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Hmm. That's a really interesting shift. The figure's still there, but being used for different purposes. Obviously, as we've been discussing this, there are a number of moments where clearly I was surprised in reading the book and going, oh, okay, that's not where I thought this was going.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Right.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Which makes it really interesting to investigate. Was there anything that you came across in the process of figuring this all out that surprised you?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

I honestly was. I knew.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Okay.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

I knew there was. I knew there was a monument term today, and I think I knew that there was a first monument. Didn't know much about it. So I wanted to see what happened there. I wanted to find out something about that story. One of the things that surprised me was part of how, you know, how long it went unfinished, but also the treatment of the monument. I mentioned, on the one hand, that people would go and make these pilgrimages, and it was this kind of side of. Of reverence and remembrance for some. And yet there, you know, many accounts talk about it being defaced, graffiti of, you know, of all sorts on it. Maybe some of the. Not the nicest thing. I'm not saying it's about Mary, but maybe graphic. We're not really sure. And used for target practice. Right. So. So not treated very respectfully or reverently at all. And that definitely surprised me. It's like, okay, interesting. It was also. Let's see. I wasn't necessarily surprised by that. There was a little bit of tension and conflict between the two women's groups. But it was interesting to read about that and how the national group ends up winning, if you will. So you check that out in the book. Yeah.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Is there anything you wanted to tell us more about those sorts of interactions and like what they were tense about. It sounds like they were pretty unified in wanting a monument.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

So yes, they wanted the monument. They, they were in disagreement about what it should look like, frankly. So what's there today is, is an obelisk. It's like a mini Washington Monument, right? It's a smaller version, basically, although the base is different. It says Mary, mother of Washington. And so that's what the national wanted and that's what happened. That's what they got. But the Fredericksburg group, and it's not entirely clear to me how much it was the women or the male advisors. Both of these groups had male advisory boards, kind of powerful men locally in Fredericksburg, nationally. And we're talking about the President of the United States, the Chief justice of the Supreme Court, some really powerful men, as the trustee or advisors of the national Mary Washington Memorial Association. The local group wanted either something that looked more like the original design, also an obelisk, but a more ornate, somewhat more ornate, elaborate looking monument with bust of George atop it and of Eagle. But you know, someone else was talking about and proposed something with much more late 19th century looking, with friezes like scenes from the life of Mary and George around the base. So that it was, that was part, that was a big part of it. What it should be, what it should look like.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Well, that's definitely an interesting facet of this, though I'm still stuck on the whole how long it took to get a monument of any kind. So all sorts of fascinating things here that you've brought to life. So thank you for helping us understand the mother of Washington figure. Can I ask what you might be working on now that this book is done? Whether or not it's a book, whether or not it's related to what we've been discussing. Anything you want to give us a stick, sneak preview of?

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Well, I'm always interested and continue to be interested, engaged in various public history projects. One thing I'm thinking about for, and I should say too, that the Mary Washington Monument is very recently, as of two years ago, under new stewardship and will, I think, enjoy the new interpretation. So I would like to be somewhat involved in that if possible. But for my, for a future book, I, in researching this and thinking about this, I really got into Virginia and Virginia history and Virginian claims to national history. You got a Virginia vis a vis New England and Massachusetts. So I'm thinking about a project on the creation of Virginia history in various forms, in writing, maybe built environment, material culture, early though earlier than we might think. So before the establishment of Virginia historical society in 1831. So this is a 19th century book. Mother of Washington, 19th century. I might be moving back again to the 18th century in a future work.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

Well, we shall have to wait and see, but good luck with those investigations.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

Thanks. Thank you.

[Dr. Miranda Melcher]

For anyone who wants to stay in 19th century America and learn more about what we've been discussing, the book is titled the Mother of Washington in 19th Century America, published by Oxford University Press in 2025. Kate, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast.

[Dr. Kate Holman]

It has been a pleasure. Thanks for the great questions and thanks again for having.