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Kendra D. Boyd, "Freedom Enterprise: Black Entrepreneurship and Racial Capitalism in Detroit" (U Pennsylvania Press, 2025)
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- [00:00]
A
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- [01:07]
B
Welcome to New Books in African American Studies, a podcast channel on the New Books Network. My name is Adam Xavier McNeil, a postdoctoral research associate and lecturer at the University of Virginia's Carter G. Woodson Institute for African American and African Studies. Today I'm in conversation with Rutgers University Camden Assistant professor of History, Kendra Boyd. Kendra is on the podcast to discuss her new book, Freedom Black Entrepreneurship and Racial Capitalism in Detroit, published in 2025 by the University of Pennsylvania Press. Welcome to the podcast, Kendra. How are you doing today?
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C
Thank you, Adam. Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing great. Still on winter break before the semester starts, so enjoying the relaxation?
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B
Good, good. Please enjoy that relaxation until classes come and hit you and you gotta get back in the class. Very happy to have you on the podcast. It's been a while since I had a member of the RU mafia up in here, up in here, and so, you know, I'm so, so happy that we were able to make this work because your work is very. Not only interesting, but, you know, you've probably heard this quite a bit at different times, but something that's very topically important in the world that we're living in today and so forth for a number of different reasons. I'm very happy to have you on the podcast. Today. And so, to begin our conversation, let's go all the way back. What inspired you to become a historian of black business history? Or at least I would say I think that you're a historian of black business history. And maybe you want to correct me.
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C
I identify as a historian of black business. I also identify as a social historian. But I think probably the biggest inspiration ultimately was my father. In my research, I take a very broad understanding of business and entrepreneurship. Instead of looking at large corporations or big businesses exclusively, I look at small businesses a lot that was, I think, inspired by my dad having a business growing up. When I was little, he was a custodian at a local school, but he also started a cleaning business to supplement his income. And I watched him. I actually worked in his business with him cleaning houses on the weekend. But I saw him, you know, doing this small business activities, staying up late at night trying to figure out how to do business taxes. I think that inspired me to actually. When I went to college undergrad at Wayne State University in Detroit, I majored in business. My bachelor's degree is in business administration. So I was inspired by him to pursue business. And then I sort of made the switch to history, because I always loved history. And when I was going through my coursework in undergrad, I was drawn most to courses that actually dealt with history and the sort of history of business and the history of economic ideas, like business, anthropology, economics classes, business law. So I was able to sort of meld these two interests. But I think, you know, in my work, themes that I'm interested in, of working class business or survival entrepreneurship really comes from looking at my dad's experience as a black entrepreneur. And then I was able to pursue business history in my PhD program at Rutgers New Brunswick.
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B
Rutgers, New Brunswick, y'.
- [04:50]
C
All.
- [04:50]
B
It's where it all comes together. So it all comes together. So also, we got to give a shout out to all of our Ru Mafia members, you know, Natalie, Kendra, by Marleene, Ashley, Keisha, and the list goes on. Because ultimately that list of three is the reason why I'm here, why I transferred from Delaware to two Rutgers in 2019. And so what I find fascinating about your story is that this is not just a general interest of something. Maybe you read a book back in the day or in your. In your Wayne State days, but this is actually grounded in your own, you know, family's lived experience. And so it's really fascinating to hear about the work that your. That your father did and also even your own contributions as well, because Lord knows I'm very much interested in barbecue as not only a consumer, but also its background, because my father, our main point of connection growing up was just sports and barbecue. That was really it. So I hear it. I didn't take it the same route as you did in terms of what I end up working on, but it is fascinating to hear about your own background and connection to it. And so, building on that previous question, though, what actually then inspired you to formally write Freedom Enterprise as the book that we have, that I have in front of me and that their listeners will have in front of them after this interview?
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C
Well, the book came from the dissertation. The dissertation, really, the seed was from my undergraduate research I did. I was part of the McNair Scholars Program at Wayne State, and I already, through that program, started doing historical research around black business history as a marketing major. So my undergraduate research was about black women's beauty salon advertisements in the 1930s. And I was analyzing the advertisements more like literally through advertising techniques. So that's really where it started. But how I got on the path to researching the story that ultimately became Freedom Enterprise is also sort of sparked by the experience of doing the undergraduate research. I was, as I said, a business student. I didn't know a lot about history or historical research methods. So I went to the archive for the first time, the Burton Historical Collection at the Detroit Public library, with my McNair Scholars faculty mentor, Danielle McGuire, who is also part of the RU mafia. And we went there and she showed me the ropes in the archive. But I was talking to the different archivists and asking them, telling them, I'm interested in black business history. And I heard so many times, first thing out of people's mouth was, Detroit used to have this amazing, thriving black business community, and it was paved over for the highway. I heard it so many times. So I sort of always knew the end of the story. But I really wanted to know, what was this business community like before it was paved over for a highway? And throughout my graduate work, I got more interested in the Great Migration. And, you know, this is very much the story of Detroit. You hear black people came from the south to work at the Ford factory or to work in the auto industry more broadly. But I wanted to know, did people come specifically to open businesses? And when I started doing the research early on, I looked at. First thing I looked at actually was the letters of migrants that was published in the Journal of Negro History. And I looked through. I combed through all those letters, and I saw several where it's entrepreneurs Writing and asking for information about the possibilities for business up north. Right. Is this migration only for day laborers, or can you be successful in business or women writing? I want to go north to bring my kids, but my husband has a business and he doesn't think we can be successful. So I sort of had the two bookends of the story of people migrating for business to Detroit, and then it was destroyed through highway construction, urban renewal. And I just felt this curiosity and wanted to know what happened in between. Right. Really to lay out the rise and fall of this black business community. And that's, you know, I pursued that for many years until we finally have the book Freedom Enterprise.
- [09:20]
B
Wonderful, wonderful. And so with that, too, now that we have a grounding in how we got here, ultimately to the book and to our interview today, I want to ask now about historiography. What are you. What were some of the stakes of the work that you're doing? What are some of the stakes of the work that you're doing? But also thinking broadly in this space, too, what kind of intervention are you trying to make that. That also to say, what intervention did you make with this particular book vis a vis black business history? And also thinking, broadly speaking, outside of our historical profession? You know, when people think about business centers, like centers of black business in the early 20th century, where especially your story begins, we're thinking Tulsa, we're thinking maybe even Durham. We're thinking of maybe areas of Richmond as well, thinking about Sinead Garrett Scott's work. And so what are the stakes of the work? But also, what are some of the interventions that you're making with Freedom Enterprise?
- [10:37]
C
I mean, ultimately, in writing the book, I wanted to provide a more comprehensive understanding of the history of black liberation efforts, particularly around economic liberation. And I look, my book covers over 60 years, so it looks at several different things throughout. But in terms of looking at the Great Migration, we were talking about placing entrepreneurship at the center of the story. Use this term, migrant entrepreneurship. Right. It's a distinct thing. And the experiences of entrepreneurs in Great Migration sites like Detroit is completely shaped by their experience of being southern migrants, their experiences in the south before they move north. Right. So for Great Migration, of course, placing entrepreneurship at the center, when it comes to thinking about black business historiography, I mean, in business historiography in general, it is skewed towards larger enterprises. Right. I mean, even thinking about early works on black business history, they focus on life insurance companies, banks. Right. I mean, a lot of that has to do with the records that are left behind. It's hard to do small business history in general because either records aren't created or they're not saved. So one of the things that I'm trying to do is if we look at the black business communities that are mostly made up of mom and pop enterprises, we need to understand these small enterprises in aggregate in order to really understand black business. Because this is actually the majority of businesses. So that's one thing that I emphasize. Another, I guess, intervention. If we're thinking about the historic on Detroit and black Detroit is thinking about periodization, there are, as you know, many amazing books on Detroit's history, but they tend to either focus on sort of the pre war period or the post war period. And my strategy was to put these two time periods together. Right. Because if I only look at the sort of rise of the urban crisis in Detroit, or I just look at the earlier part of the migration and how they came to work for Ford. Right. If you don't put those two periods together, you don't really understand what it means to be a black entrepreneur in Detroit or even just African American citizen in Detroit because you're sort of separating the southern story from what ultimately happened. And many of the people in my book that I look at, they literally experience Jim Crow, Sal. And then when they are experiencing urban renewal and the destruction of their community, they often hearken back to their experiences in the South. Right. So you have to put these two bookends that I talked about together, the sort of Jim Crow experience and the migration and then ultimately the attack on the black community in the 1950s or 1960s.
- [13:46]
B
Yeah, because when I, when I read the work and you know, as listeners will know, I'm very much bogged in, bogged down, probably not even the right term. But you know, I'm, I've been very much thinking in the 18th century. And so when I'm, when I'm reading your work, it's really the archives are fascinating in terms of these first person accounts of these black migrants. I mean, also even the points, and there's a question later about it, but just like the conference, not even confrontations, but like the connections between old Detroiters, I think is the term and these black migrants. And so that was also something that I found really fascinating, but also like going to your points of intervention, thinking about where black business history is, because you're not the first. I've interviewed Brandon Winford a couple years ago and been in conversation with others. And so this, this work to me I found really fascinating because I feel like to your point, you're making these connections of these relatively disparate times in terms of the way the historiography has couched them and put them together in ways that I think is really helpful for people to try to understand the Jim Crow story and, but also the transformation of Detroit in a lot of different ways. Because even for me, right. Growing up, right. So I went to famu. So your mayor, Kwame Kilpatrick was someone who argue. Former mayor, right? Oh, former mayor, Right, right, right. Former mayor, right. Sorry about that. Currently not man. But. But yeah. So, you know, growing up in the, in the, in the early aughts, right. He was someone who. So my brother went to family before me and then I went five years after him. But just, you know, thinking about like, you know, these, these prime fam. Uns, right. You know, this guy, Detroit and among others. And I went to college with quite a few folks from Detroit. Not, not Detroit, but Detroit. Because I also heard like the D is real. Like, like it's like Detroit versus, you know, everybody as the moniker goes. But, but yeah, so, so long winded way of saying, you know, your, your interventions were also something that I found really interesting and fascinating too, and I'm sure the readers will too. Another area that of interest too is the, the. The framework of racial capitalism that plays a very prominent. It's featured prominently in the work. And so for, for those who are reading the book, you know, they, they would, they would likely know black entrepreneurship as a, as a term and concept, but maybe not so much racial capitalism. And so I want to take a moment for, for you to be able to flesh out for, for the listeners, what is racial capitalism and why. Why did you think, with the production of the book, why did you think that this was a useful framework for understanding of the dynamics faced by black entrepreneurs in the 60 or so years of which your book connects? And also whether or not too. And I know those who interview people for a living are going to slap me on my hand for asking three questions at once, but here we are. Was the racial capitalism aspect of the working in terms of like the concept? Was that also a part of the dissertation or was this a kind of development of the post dissertation timeframe too, that I'm dealing with with my own work?
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C
All right.
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B
I know it's a lot and my bad, my bad. Kendra. Don't hurt me. Don't hurt me, Kendra.
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C
Well, I mean it's a good question to think about, like how the dissertation changes when you're, you know, I'm revising it to a book. But to start off with your first question about what is racial capitalism? Racial capitalism, it's an idea popularized in the US By Cedric Robinson, political theorist who wrote Black Marxism in 1983. There's a lot that goes into the concept, but for my purposes, one of the main ideas that helped frame my analysis is the idea that the capitalist system in the United States and other places developed with race or racial hierarchy at the center. So basically there is a sort of white supremacist system in the United States, racial caste system, and that involves economics as well. So when I think about racial capitalism and how it comes into my analysis, one of the things that I talk about, especially early in the book and then at the end of the book, is violence. This is a key aspect of understanding racial capitalism. Robin D.G. kelly has written about racial capitalism and sort of summed it up in a way that I feel useful, saying that racial capitalism is a modern system of capitalism dependent on slavery, violence, imperialism and genocide. All of these things are true when we take a global point of view. But for me, what really resonated was violence. Because my story starts off looking at the migrants, the Southerners before they moved to Detroit. And one of the things you mentioned, I think Tulsa earlier, one of the things that's always at play, and this is part of my contribution I feel, is thinking about the ever present risk of anti black violence when doing business. All businesses face risk, right? But it's black entrepreneurs in particular who have to account for the threat of violence at every turn when they are operating their businesses. Right. That is just one example of how living and working in a racial capitalist system is impacting my entrepreneurs. So when I was writing the book, one of the things that I did was, you know, I take for granted that American capitalism is racial capitalism. And I didn't always. This is actually part of my own intellectual journey going back to. I talked about previously my undergraduate experience going to business school. I read all the classic texts, economic theory. And when I started getting more interested in history and black business, there were so many things that I learned in business school that just didn't line up with the experience of black entrepreneurs. Right. Because a lot of what you learn in business school is basically capitalist propaganda. So when I started encountering texts in graduate school like Black Marxism or Eric Williams Capitalism and Slavery, Robert Allen's Black Awakening in Capitalist America, or Manning How Capitalism Underdeveloped Black America, then I started to get a more complex analysis that made it clear to me that American Capitalism is and always has been racial capitalism. So taking that for granted, I went into the archive with certain questions about how is race and racism at play throughout black entrepreneurs and these migrant entrepreneurs experiences? So I basically kind of did like a SWOT analysis for the entrepreneurs of looking at the strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats that they were experiencing and asked, well, where is race coming into play here or racism coming into play? And that shaped how I told the story, how I sort of analyzed the experience of, of my entrepreneurs. I forgot the third part of your question.
- [21:49]
B
No, no, it's. It's okay. It was more so to do with the development of. You talked about the development of your ideas about racial capitalism, but it was more so to do with. Was the dissertation version at Rutgers did it also, if black entrepreneurs and black entrepreneurship is kind of like the, the centerpiece of your Detroit story, of your Detroit black migrant Detroit story, then was racial capitalism also within the frame of how you at least framed it at the dissertation level at Rutgers?
- [22:22]
C
It wasn't actually. It was always sort of ruminating in my mind, but it really came out the way I articulated more in the revision process of taking the dissertation to the book. And this is partially being prompted by the reviewers. What do you mean by racial capitalism? You need to really explain this more and how is it at play throughout the book? So I was really pushed in revising to I guess sort of own the theory that was impacting me behind the scenes in the way I was doing the work, but sort of bring it out more in the book.
- [23:07]
B
Gotcha. Okay, okay. And once again, like some of these questions as the listeners will know or self interested because I'm someone who is now having had a manuscript workshop back in December. I'm like, oh my gosh, now I'm like, what the hell I gotta do now? Like this, this. I gotta take this thing apart and put it back together and say, you know, and you're kind of, you know, in. You're in the space. I want to be in a different chair in like five years or however long, you know, the process takes. And so once again, at times self interested question in. In picking up on a new question here, I found something fascinating because once again we had talked before about my mentor, Dr. Young. It's like I don't have to call these people doctor anymore, but it's kind of like it's always Young or Dr. Young. Calling him Darius is just, just feels weird. But nevertheless, Dr. Young and some of his work with Albert Clegg as well, but just, you know, the con, you know, thinking about. We're talking about racial capitalism before, but there's another important key term in the work about black nationalism and. And thinking about black nationalism in. In Detroit. Right. And so one of the aspects of the book that I really found fascinating was thinking about the connections between black naturalism and black entrepreneurship and black economic independence. And so with that being said, and you definitely broach it a lot throughout the work, so can you actually describe the depth and the breadth of black Detroit residents, black nationalist history and their economic visions? Right. Because I found, for me, like, that was the part that I found, among many things, just. Just really, really interesting. So I'd love for you to flesh that out a little more for our listeners here.
- [25:03]
C
Well, if we think about black nationalism, Detroit, especially economic black nationalism, I'm sure the first thing that comes to people's mind will be the Nation of Islam, which is founded in Detroit in 1930. But I talk about in the book also the UNIA, which a lot of the people who are involved with the Universal Negro Improvement association in Detroit sort of were then becoming. Becoming later part of the Nation of Islam. So that's sort of the areas where they're black nationalists. Black economic theories sort of is the most obvious when we're looking at the Detroit story. But I don't think it's an accident that there's a strong tradition of black nationalism in Detroit particularly tied to business and economics because of the dynamics and how the Great Migration unfolded in Detroit related to geographic segregation in the city. Also, this migrant community. Detroit's black population before the Great Migration was very small. It was only 1.2% of Detroit's population. And very quickly the city became. The black population, became mostly the Southern migrants who came specifically with this vision around liberation. This is what the Great Migration is about. People seeking true freedom that they hadn't been able to achieve. So because we have this large, booming business community made up majority of migrants, I think this was fertile ground for people to have these conversations about how can we support our community, how can we achieve liberation through business and economics, and that we have to, because of the racial dynamics in the city, turn inward and look to supporting ourselves. Even organizations that I talk about that aren't really thought of as being so radical or nationalists, like the Detroit Housewives League or the Booker T. Washington Trade Association. Some of the people, like, they're sort of considered bougie, Right. Not very radical, but a lot of the ideas that they had, we could sort of think of as black nationalist ideas. Right. Of supporting our own, making sure that our money doesn't go to the white community, but stays within the black community. How can we uplift the race economically? So I think all of these dynamics sort of made Detroit a fertile ground for black nationalist economic thought.
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B
Yeah, like I said, like, it was just. It was just a really fascinating part of the book. And. And, you know, it comes out in different chapters, like you said. But that was just a part that I just really enjoyed learning about. And I think, like, the part that I love about interviewing people is. Is I just learn. Right. There's so much to learn in terms of history and learning about, you know, like you said, like black nationalism, its connection with Detroit, you know, it's incredibly fertile ground, certainly. And so another piece of the story that I found fascinating was also the role that gender also played in terms of some of the black migrant communities and the institution building as well, which we can talk to as well. So. So how. How did gender actually affect one's ability to participate in Detroit's black entrepreneur landscape?
- [28:37]
C
Yes, you know, it's really hard when you're doing business history to bring the women to the forefront. It's just something I'm constantly grappling with because of the sources that are left behind or even just the language that's used at the time. For women who are entrepreneurs calling themselves businessmen, you see this in the historical sources all the time. So, I mean, as you might expect for the time period, women were expected to have a certain role, be in the background. Right. Respectability, politics are at play. And so it was difficult for women to be, like, obvious business leaders. I talk about this in the book. So they had to sort of be strategic with the way that they presented themselves as business experts and being on par with men of being business leaders. But women were able to engage in entrepreneurship even though, you know, there were a lot more successful male entrepreneurs just because of, you know, sexism. But for the women that we see, they did open a lot of businesses, as you might expect, Hair salons, beauty salons, restaurants, boarding houses. But one thing that I found interesting about the women and the ways that they were sort of strategic with navigating the limitations of gender at the time, was using the idea that women should be educators or that it's fine for women to be educators and linking that with their business efforts. So, you know, one of the things. And I talk about the Detroit Housewives League a lot in the book as sort of the main organization of women who are engaging in entrepreneurship or being business leaders is they would actually do what we might call market research about business, but they would present it as a way of like we're educating or women. Actually there were several business schools and business colleges that were established in Detroit. They were all established by women. Right. So they're able to link the idea that women should be educators and think about the next generation. They often talked about being mothers and we want to create opportunities for future generations, but mixing that with their own entrepreneurial aspirations to actually build thriving businesses in the community or actually in some ways run the businesses in the community if they have men who are at the head. So it definitely there were limitations around gender, but women, Black women in particular, they were very creative in the ways that they were able to be entrepreneurs and as I said, business leaders in the community.
- [31:33]
B
And the schools, the actual schools that you mentioned to me were once again some of the areas that once again I had no clue about. But they're just so fascinating in the sense of business opportunities and also how connected they become in Detroit because of their strategic importance and even just as a place for people for a lot of women to be able to. To become independent as well, especially in this time frame that, that you're talking about. And, and so yeah, so, so I found that aspect to be fascinating, but also the, the Detroit Housewives League as well. And, and it's even connection because one of my. One of the also the parts I found interesting too because Bookers D. Washington, the, the Burgers. It was the Booker T. Washington Trade Association. The trade association. But then at different times you also talk about the National Black Business League. I believe as well that, that, that Washington established before he passed away. And so just some of my old professors from FAMU were. Had written like the stuff on. On that too. So it's like. Oh stop. That would be considered business history too. So even just my own concepts of. Of. Of of history and some of the framing of it was just, just blown away by. By this book in a lot of really good ways. But speaking of being blown away, you had talked before about populations in demographics. I don't do a lot with numbers or at least I haven't and I unfortunately have to. But one of the parts I found really interesting too the statistical analysis that you bring to. For which once again coming from my. Some of the work that I'd written read about Detroit comes from Tya Miles in four books ago. She writes a book every year or something. But four books ago. And so I hadn't really understood how quickly Detroit grew. Not only As a city, but also in terms of its black population. And so did you find any evidence or. Because in my head this would have been it. But did you find any evidence of old Detroiters reacting even at times negatively to this, not only black population growth, but also in terms of, you know, and you hear this all the time in terms of quote unquote, taking opportunities in terms of like the interracial aspect. But do you ever find any examples of that intra racially in terms of old Detroiters, like the, maybe the, the late 19th century, early 20th century variety that either had lived there before, had migrated maybe during that time versus some of these, like very concentrated. There was some one time you said like it went from 150, 150,000 to like 300,000 of black people in like a decade. I can't even imagine that. So did you find any examples of that in your research?
- [34:57]
C
Yes, I think this dynamic between the old Detroiters and the new Detroiters, we see it more at the beginning, the earlier part of the Great Migration, because as I said earlier, it was very quickly actually that the Detroiters black population became majority southern born. So Detroit's interesting place. One of the reasons I think Detroit's a good site for this study is because of this boom of the city and also what I'm interested in, the black population much more compared to other large cities. So I have a statistic that between 1910 and 1920, the black population in Detroit increased by 611%, which is actually more than any of the larger cities. Right. Chicago, of course, we know, is very important for the Great Migration. They also had sizable black community before that had established a business community. Same thing with Harlem. Right. But Detroit, because the black population was so small, 1.2% before the great Migration. There were black entrepreneurs, but there were, there wasn't what we could call a black business community. There just wasn't enough black population to support a business community. So many of the old Detroiters who were entrepreneurs, they either had exclusively white clients or they had white and black clients. And when we start to see this demographic change of more black Southerners coming, you know, the old Detroiters, they had different reactions, but there was a lot of resistance at first, which is true in other cities as well, not just Detroit. They had a lot of, you know, stereotypical ideas that these Southerners are backwards and they're coming here and their country. Right. You see some of that. But what I saw most in the history of Detroit is that a lot of the old Detroiters felt It's not so bad for us here in terms of dealing with racism. Like we don't want to disrupt the status quo. And they understood that the more black people who come, there's going to be more backlash from whites. There's going to be more negative impacts for them personally. That's what they were mostly fearing. Actually. What I talk about in the book related to entrepreneurship is that actually when these Southern migrants are coming, it was the old Detroiters who actually benefited first from this demographic change in terms of being able to open businesses to cater to these migrants. They had a leg up, right? They had connections within the city. They maybe had already saved money. They didn't have to figure out the landscape of the city. I talk about, for example, funeral directors and funeral homes and some of the. There were a couple of. There were a few black embalmers in the city before. And when the migrants started coming, it was the old Detroiters who had whites in the city who were connections that could attest for their character when they wanted to get a license from the state for embalming. So they had a lot of benefits that actually benefited the old Detroiters first. But because it was within a decade, the majority of the population was southern born, any benefits that they had sort of just swept away and they got assimilated more into the population. So that's sort of the dynamic with the old Detroiters and the new Detroiters. But pretty much throughout the rest of the 20th century, it's. I mean, there were some people who still, you know, hearkened back to my family has been here for so long, and this sort of gives me some persistence, but it's just so much of the black population were Southern born that it became less of a dynamic over time.
- [38:58]
B
Gotcha. That's good to know. And speaking of over time too, right? The previous question kind of in a way connects with it too. I was really interested to know from your perspective, how did black entrepreneurs and a lot of these, you know, migrants here in the story, how did over time their ideas, if at all change about economic freedom? Right, because the. You're not concentrated in time. Right. Because over the course of the 60 or so years, a lot of things are happening. Two world wars, a cold war, the creation and you know, of Motown and, you know, and so many different things are going on that I don't want to take for granted that black entrepreneurs had the same ideas about what economic freedom looked like. That it's, you know, effectually was stayed at the. That I don't want to Take for granted that the ideas that they had stayed the same over the course of time as the world around them is also changing. So that was something I was. I wanted to ask you as well, because it was something I thought about a lot while reading the work.
- [40:24]
C
Yes. Change over time is one thing, but even if we look at the same time period, we know black people are not a monolith. Right?
- [40:32]
B
Of course.
- [40:32]
C
Different people had. I like, several different ideas about, you know, what is freedom? How can business lead to freedom? Right. So some migrant entrepreneurs, they really just wanted to be their own boss, right? They weren't necessarily driven by the profit motive, and I need to maximize my profits and grow and expand. They just wanted to have their own autonomy of not having to answer to a white boss, and that was freedom for them. Others felt we need to make large corporations. This was the aspiration, right? And then we can employ more black people, and this will create freedom for the race. Or just having more wealth will help us leverage to get more political rights. Other people in my book, you know, they just were trying to survive, especially the Great Depression, you know, and be able to be able to live and thrive in the ways that they could. So there are different ways that people thought about freedom, enterprise, or how they can use business to achieve freedom. I would say one of the main ways that it changed over time, particularly if we look at the latter part of the story, the sort of sad part of the story of the destruction of this black business community is the Southern migrants coming to understand, really, what are the possibilities for achieving freedom through business when they worked so hard to come from the south to build this community, and then for it to just be swept away by, you know, the federal government, the state and local government deciding that they wanted to and they could, and they didn't have to compensate them fairly. It was like a huge lesson for people in terms of, you know, part of the. The story that I see over and over again with black business history is there's so many limitations, there's so many obstacles to. To start a business, to grow a business, but black people do it, right? You talked about Durham. You talked about all these other places where there were thriving business communities. Even though there's obstacles, black people are still able to build thriving businesses. The problem comes with retaining the well. And this is what these entrepreneurs, these migrant entrepreneurs learned over time, right? That if you're in the Jim Crow south and you build a thriving business, maybe you have to flee and give up everything because you're getting threats of being Lynched, maybe a white mob is going to come burn down your black business community. They moved north thinking that there's going to be a freer economy. Right. They weren't. They were smart, Right. They understood it's like it's not all sunshine and roses in the North. Right. It's not fair competition in the North. Right. But they thought that it was a freer economy. And then they learned that racial capitalism is not just a Southern thing. Right? This is what it means to be a black entrepreneur in America is to constantly have to deal with anti black violence that is, in my case, directed at entrepreneurs. And so it's not going to be a white mob in the Jim Crow South. It's going to be bulldozers that the state is paying for to destroy your community.
- [43:50]
B
And thank you for, for that too, because it, like I said, I've been trying to think with the story because so many resonances now in terms of, you know, some of the common reframes. I'm sure you get people asking at your talks or whatever about, you know, black business has got to stick. You know, black people got to stick together. You know, the black dollar leaving the community. You know, Jared Ball has some of this work coming out of Morgan State and some of the quote unquote myths that may come from that. But it really makes me think about, you know, some things change and other things say, certainly the same in terms of thought. But as we wind to the latter part of our discussion here, I wanted you to take a time to kind of highlight some of the cool stories that you have in this book, because you have many. Right. I know everything couldn't even be in the book, so you might even have some stories that just couldn't fit the work. So whose story from Freedom Enterprise sticks with you most and why?
- [45:05]
C
Yes, that is a hard question.
- [45:08]
B
That's why I ask it.
- [45:10]
C
It's hard because, as you said, there's so many characters in the book, which is partly, you know, due to the methodology I had to develop of taking so much fragmented evidence and putting it together sort of in aggregate to tell the story of this community. So it's hard to tell, you know, people, they stick with me or they're inspiring for different. Different reasons. But I think one person that I find most compelling or I feel story sticks with me because there's still some unanswered questions is Ruth Ellis. I talk about her in the chapter about urban renewal, and she's interesting to me because first of all, she was an out lesbian. Her whole Life. She's considered to be this pioneering LGBT figure, which is why her papers are preserved in the archive. But she was also an entrepreneur. And why she's interesting is because she ran her printing business out of her home, which is very difficult to study the history of businesses operated out of people's homes, because the evidence is just not there. Oral histories you can use, but we can't really do oral histories with people in the beginning part of my book because they're not around anymore. So, you know, her story, because of this other aspect of her being, you know, sort of famous for this other reason, provided me with a lot of insight about how she ran her business out of her home. She was also displaced through urban redevelopment initiatives. So I use her story, you know, because it's important for understanding how urban redevelopment and displacement impacted black entrepreneurship. But I think there's still so much more that we need to do in the field to learn and understand this aspect of black business, of these businesses operated out of people's homes. But she also sticks with me just because I feel like her story feeds into a theme of a lot of the businesses about placing community and people at the center of their entrepreneurial pursuits. Whether, you know, I talk. There's a lot of different instances, but I talk in the book about a bowling alley that had classes during the day to teach people to read who didn't know how to read. Right. There's always the initiative of sort of giving back to the community. And it's the same thing with Ruth Ellis. She opened her home to LGBT youth who were cast out. Right. And this is why there's a Ruth Ellis center in Detroit to this day. Right. Named after her because she put community at the center of her home and her business. And I think that speaks to the larger story of Detroit as well.
- [48:00]
B
Wonderful, wonderful story. And so glad that there's a living, breathing center that. That still is around that that's in her name. Great legacy. Great legacy. And so, as we shift to our final question here, you end Freedom enterprise by saying this, and I'm reading this in your. In your words here. The destruction of the black business community in Paradise Valley at Black Bottom would continue to reverberate for generations. When I, Kendra Boyd, first started researching the history of black owned business in Detroit while I was an undergraduate student at Wayne State University, almost everyone I talked to brought up the destruction of Black Bottom in Paradise valley. This was 50 to 60 years after the fact that people would tell me anecdotes about the business their grandparents had owned or the stories they had heard about what Paradise Valley was like in its heyday. There was a sense of pride. There was always a sense of sadness and incredible loss. After all these decades, the effects of this community trauma, this economic trauma, were clearly still being felt. This is one reason I felt this story needed to be documented. I hope this history will be taken into consideration in the development of future urban policies. End quote. So for you, Kendra Boyd, PhD, how do you want readers and shapers of policy to use your book to enact humane and viable urban policies in the present and future? The floor is yours.
- [49:42]
C
That's also a big question. I think lesson to take away from the book, particularly the last chapter, is to listen to. It sounds simple, but listen to those who are being impacted. I, in the last chapter, spent a lot of time talking about how people were fighting for their business community and their own financial interests. And I thought it was really important because sometimes if we think about urban renewal, people would always ask me when I was writing this or giving my job talks, well, did the urban planners really do this on purpose? Did they know? Was this just unintended consequence? And I found so much evidence of the black residents, but also the entrepreneurs in the community going to meetings, going to the legislature, explaining how this is hurting their community or it's going to hurt their community, advocating for themselves, coming up with proposals, policies, alternative ways urban renewal could play out. That's not going to be as devastating to the black community they articulate over and over again. We're not against urban renewal. We're not against progress. Right. We just want it to be done in an ethical way. And here are the ways that it can be done ethically. So I think that's like the most important thing that I want people to take away if they actually care about having fair, equitable policies, is that listening to the people who are most impacted and what it means to behave ethically is determined by those who will be impacted. Hopefully we can learn from this history.
- [51:32]
B
Amen. Amen to that. And certainly the people who are listening to this podcast, wherever you are, if it's in 2026 or 2036, are going to certainly hear that loud and clear. And so I'm going to ask you one last question that's not on the list. We started with your father, right, as a black entrepreneur and the importance of his example for your example in the book. So how about we end here with a question about what does this book, Freedom Enterprise and its larger conversation about black entrepreneurship? What does it mean to you, as the person who wrote it, what does this story mean to you? Right. Because Detroit is a place that's a part of your story. Right. And so what does this broader story that you're telling mean to you?
- [52:28]
C
When I was, you know, at different points writing the story, I experienced so many emotions, frustration, anger. I mean, the economic injustice that took place in destroying this community, just like infuriating. So I had a lot of negative emotions, actually, when writing it. But at the end of the day, I'm so inspired by these historical figures who had a vision, Right. Who really embodied this entrepreneurial spirit of taking risk, leaping out on faith, whether it's migrating or opening their business or expanding their business, working for the community. There's so much in these people's stories that I find inspiring. Their creativity, how innovative they were in navigating the obstacles. It just makes me feel hopeful, right, that even though there are the negative parts of the story, there is that creativity, that tenacity that have always kept black people going and striving. There's just so many examples that are inspiring. So this, I think, is my main takeaway from writing the book and what it just means for me.
- [53:46]
B
Well, we're certainly happy that you decided to have the airwaves have you want it, because we're definitely better now that we've had the chance to not only listen to the conversation as listeners, but also for those future readers out there, too. And I'm sure they're going to feel all of the vibes that you brought through the microphone while they read the book. And once again, y', all, y' all have had the amazing opportunity to listen to and learn from a member of the RU mafia like me. Right? And if you've gotten to this point, you probably already know who this is, but we have to wrap it up by also saying you've had the chance to listen to Rutgers University Camden Assistant professor of History, and we're going to hit associates sometime soon. Putting that out there.
- [54:32]
C
I'm going up for tenure this year.
- [54:34]
B
Hey, there we go. There we go. Once again, we have Rutgers University Camden Assistant professor of History, Kendra Boyd. And she was on today's New Books in African American Studies episode to discuss her new book published in 2025 by the University of Pennsylvania Press, entitled Freedom Enterprise, Black Entrepreneurship and Racial Capitalism in Detroit. Right. And that's Detroit, Michigan. And so thank you so much, Kendra, for being on today to chat about this amazing book. Congratulations, belatedly, albeit. But congratulations again on completing this book. And I say congratulations because just writing a damn introduction is hard enough for me, much less all these chapters, all these books and everything involved. And so congratulations again on this monumental accomplishment and looking forward to the next time we have you on to discuss your forthcoming work, which we'll just let. We'll just let all of the, you know, the press catalogs tell us about that when the time comes. No pressure. And so, y', all, I am your host, Adam McNeil of New Books in African American Studies, a podcast channel on the New Books Network. And until next time, over and out.