Kevin J. Hayes, "Understanding Hunter S. Thompson" (U South Carolina Press, 2025)

Summary

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Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network

Episode: Kevin J. Hayes, "Understanding Hunter S. Thompson" (U South Carolina Press, 2025)
Date: September 7, 2025
Host: Caleb Zakrin
Guest: Kevin J. Hayes (Professor Emeritus of English, University of Central Oklahoma)

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Overview

This episode explores the life and legacy of Hunter S. Thompson through the lens of Kevin J. Hayes's new book, Understanding Hunter S. Thompson. Hayes and host Caleb Zakrin dive deep into Thompson’s early influences, his meteoric rise as a journalist and originator of “gonzo” journalism, his literary output, sharp decline, and enduring myth. The conversation strikes a balance between admiration for Thompson's originality and a frank look at the self-destructive traits that shaped his later years.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Kevin J. Hayes’ Introduction to Thompson (02:50)

• Hayes discovered Thompson after college, starting with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. He found it “wonderful,” but was initially disappointed with Curse of Lono and paused reading Thompson.
• Rediscovered Thompson with Hell’s Angels while traveling: “It was wonderful. In fact, I think I like it more than Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas now... it was really Hell’s Angels that solidified my interest in Thompson.” (03:32)

2. Thompson’s Early Life & Personality (05:03)

• Characterized as a wild, charismatic prankster from his youth, a trait that stayed with him.
• Hayes concludes: “He was lazy, and I think his laziness really affected his work ultimately.” (05:28)
• Thompson’s early promise gave way to resting on his reputation post-Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail.

3. Literary Influences & The Great Gatsby Obsession (06:38)

• Thompson was an avid reader of American classics, especially The Great Gatsby, which he deemed “the greatest book in the history of American literature.”
• Hayes identifies Thompson’s veneration of Gatsby as a personal creative roadblock: “He always helped Great Gatsby up as the thing to emulate, and he could never come close to it.” (07:08)

4. Early Journalism and South American Reporting (07:37)

• Hayes highlights overlooked early work: “His South American writings... are entertaining and... show the makings of a very good journalist... they really show he put a lot of work into them.” (08:15)
• Urges evaluating Thompson’s early journalism on its own merit, not merely as proto-gonzo.

5. Big Sur and Literary Experimentation (09:17)

• Thompson’s move to Big Sur to write The Rum Diary: lived as a caretaker, surrounded by literary figures and counterculture.
• Noted for upsetting Big Sur locals by naming them in his articles, betraying their desire for privacy.

6. On Thompson's Eccentricity and Decline (11:30)

• Hayes: “I think he's a genius. But I also think that he was an alcoholic and a drug addict... In his later writings, it's just pitiful because... he could hardly put two sentences together.” (11:30–12:35)
• Editors were offering huge sums for short articles Thompson could no longer produce due to his deteriorated state.

7. Relationship to the New Journalism Movement (13:50)

• Friends with Tom Wolfe; both were pioneers of New Journalism.
• Hayes distinguishes: “Thompson would immerse himself... much more thoroughly” than Wolfe (14:33).

8. The Emergence and Definition of Gonzo Journalism (15:30)

• Gonzo as a subset of New Journalism, but a style only authentically performed by Thompson himself.
• Distinctives: “Drugs and alcohol are part of the stock and trade... It's only from that warped perspective that you can write your gonzo journalism.” (16:35)
• Ralph Steadman is equally essential as gonzo’s illustrator.

9. The Golden Years: 1967–1973 (18:42, 38:27)

• Hell's Angels, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail are identified as his key works.
• Hayes: “All of his best stuff was written and published... in a period of six or seven years.” (38:53)
• After Campaign Trail, rapid decline as Thompson relied on his reputation and the “gonzo” persona.

10. Influence as Political Commentator (22:52)

• Rolling Stone's Jan Wenner instrumental in shaping Thompson as a political commentator.
• Wenner both facilitated and exploited the “Fear and Loathing” brand for magazine sales.

11. Thompson as Letter Writer (29:23)

• His letters were stylistically powerful but, over time, revealed growing entitlement and self-pity.
• Early letters read as a “Bildungsroman,” while later ones become “very pushy and needy.” (30:25)

12. Late Career and ESPN Stint (31:35)

• By this period, Thompson was deeply unreliable; editors assigned to hound him for work.
• “It was really the... low point, I think, in his journalistic career.” (32:24)

13. Editor’s Role in Thompson’s Output (33:38)

• Hayes repeatedly credits editors for motivating and shaping Thompson's later work: “He really needed hand holding to get it done.” (34:19)

14. Death and Legacy (34:55)

• Shots himself with his grandson present, following a long, tragic decline due to addiction.
• Hayes: “...it's just so sad... I think that we need to... concentrate on his... unique style, his originality and just kind of ignore everything after about 1973.” (36:01)

15. Partnership with Ralph Steadman (39:51)

• Steadman’s visceral illustrations inseparable from Thompson's literary identity: “As soon as you see an illustration from Ralph Steadman, then you think of Hunter Thompson.” (41:06)
• Steadman’s legacy continues in modern commercial art and packaging.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “It was really Hell's Angels that solidified my interest in Thompson.” — Kevin J. Hayes (03:25)
• “He was lazy, and I think his laziness really affected his work ultimately.” — Hayes (05:28)
• “He always helped Great Gatsby up as the thing to emulate, and he could never come close to it.” — Hayes (07:08)
• “He was the great writer and, you know, they should pay his way.” — Hayes, on Thompson’s attitude later in career (30:02)
• “There's only one person who can write gonzo journalism, and that's Hunter Thompson. And there's only one person who can illustrate gonzo journalism, and that's Ralph Steadman.” — Hayes (16:07)
• “All of his best stuff was written and published... in a period of six or seven years.” — Hayes (38:53)
• “It’s just such a tiny amount of time for his great works to be published.” — Hayes (38:57)
• “He just became a parody of himself.” — Hayes (27:30)
• “He shoots himself, with his little grandson was in the house... It’s just so sad.” — Hayes (35:04)
• “As soon as you see an illustration from Ralph Steadman, then you think of Hunter Thompson.” — Hayes (41:06)

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Important Timestamps

• 02:50 — Hayes’ introduction to Thompson’s work
• 05:03 — On Thompson’s wild childhood and laziness
• 06:38 — Thompson’s literary influences and Gatsby obsession
• 07:37 — South American journalism and overlooked early work
• 09:17 — Big Sur article and The Rum Diary
• 11:30–13:07 — Thompson’s genius, addiction, and decline
• 13:50 — Friendship and rivalry with Tom Wolfe, New Journalism
• 15:39 — Gonzo journalism and Steadman’s pivotal role
• 18:42 — The mythic Sixties and Thompson’s canonical works
• 22:52 — Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail: political commentator era
• 29:23 — Letter writing’s dual revealing nature
• 31:35 — ESPN era and journalistic “low point”
• 34:55 — Death, legacy, and enduring influence
• 39:51 — Ralph Steadman's contributions
• 41:47 — Steadman’s commercial artwork and continued relevance

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Tone & Takeaways

The conversation is admiring but clear-eyed, combining enthusiasm for Thompson’s innovations and enduring myth with honest accounts of personal and creative decline. Hayes calls for future generations to celebrate Thompson’s truly unique early work, separating the lasting literary output from the personal excesses and later self-parody. Ralph Steadman receives equal credit for cementing gonzo’s cultural impact.

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For students, journalists, and fans, Hayes’s guide and this interview clarify what keeps Thompson’s work vital—his inventiveness, style, and ability to dramatize the American experience from the margins, despite or even because of his flaws.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Thank you for having me.

[A]

Andreas Thompson is really such a fascinating person. He's one of those larger than life figures. And I feel like when you're a kid growing up in America, interested in literature, interested in history and culture, you eventually come across Hunter S. Thompson. And he's almost like this, you know, this, this mythical figure that you just, just get fascinated by. And this certainly happened to me and I, I think his work is so important because I, I really think he's made, made readers out of a lot of, out of a lot of people. People that wouldn't normally be interested in reading will read his stuff and just find it as exciting as, as a, as a TV show. So I just wanted you to just tell us a little about how you got into Hunter S. Thompson.

[B]

Well, you know, I first started reading his work in about 1981. Now, 1981 is the year I graduated from college and, you know, I got a. My bachelor's degree in English. And one of the things that always I kind of resented was the fact that, you know, I had to read so much when I was in college that I didn't have time to explore any reading on my own. And so, you know, once I graduated, I said, all right, this summer I'm just gonna read for fun. And, you know, that summer is when I first came across Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. And I just loved it. Oh, it was wonderful. And so I bought it. I decided to try and read more of his work. And then two years later, he published the Curse of Lowell, which was beautifully illustrated by. By Ralph Steadman. But the text of the book itself was a little disappointing because it seemed to me that it was structurally very similar to Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. And so I didn't really see that Thompson had grown much before that work. And so I didn't read any more of him for a while. And then when I was bicycle touring in Australia, I happened to come across a copy of his. His first book, Hell's Angels, in a youth hostel in Tasmania. And it was. It was wonderful. I mean, I really, really liked it. In fact, I like. I think I like it better more than Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas now. But that's. It was really Hell's Angels that solidified my interest in Thompson.

[A]

Yeah, I think that that's one. Definitely one of the works that. That attracted me to him as well. I mean, obviously there's the movies based off of his works, too, that have popularized it. The Rum Diary came out. It was one of the. Not a very great movie, but certainly an important work in his career that he spent a lot of time trying to work through, as you detail in the book. Hunter being such a strange person, I'm wondering if you could give us some insight into his early life and childhood.

[B]

Well, he was a. He was a wild child and he was the troublemaker in the class, but he had, you know, so much charisma that he could get others to follow him along on all of his pranks. And a prankster, too. It was a practical joker. And that's something that he was when he was 14 years old. And it's something that stuck with him all of his life. But he. You know, one of the things that I learned doing the research for this book, and it was a little disappointing really, is that he. He was lazy, and I think his laziness really affected his work ultimately. But that kind of lazy streak was with him even since when he was a kid. And I think that it's ultimately, if you look at the trajectory of all of his writings, I mean, he reached a point where he just could skate. I mean, he established such an extraordinary reputation with Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas and Fear and Loathing on the campaign Trail, that pretty much after the campaign trail book, he decided, well, I don't need to put much more work into this. I can just skate on my reputation. And that, to me, was a little disappointing when I realized that, yeah, you.

[A]

Go into his childhood, you talk about his time in the Air Force and some of the literary influences. He kind of was a voracious reader of fiction. What was he reading that was influencing him as a young person?

[B]

Well, he read the classics of American literature. I mean, he read Moby Dick and he read the Red Badge of Courage and Huckleberry Finn and the Sun Also Rises and the Great Gatsby. And the Great Gatsby he thought was the greatest book in the history of American literature. And I think that, you know, my book is pretty much a survey of his career. But if it does have a thesis, then my thesis is that it's. It's his veneration of the Great Gatsby that really became a stumbling block for him, that he. He always, you know, he can never write or tried to write a novel and always helped Great Gatsby up as the thing to emulate, and he could never come close to it.

[A]

Yeah, you go into some of his early writing, he had some interesting jobs as a journalist. What was his early journalist career like?

[B]

You know, I really like his early journalist career. One of the things that I discovered as I read other books about Hunter Thompson, as pretty much everyone said, okay, his greatest contribution is the creation of Gonzo journalism. Now, I won't dispute that, but the problem is what people do is that they look at his earlier works, pre Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, and look at how they anticipate the Gonzo journalism instead of trying to evaluate them on their own. Now, what I do, I devote a whole chapter to his South American writings. And it was at a point in his career where, you know, his. His favorite aunt died and she left him a small legacy, and he was able to, you know, afford to become a freelance foreign correspondent. And he went to South. South America and just traveled from country to country and wrote a series of wonderful articles. And now they're, you know, they don't show the gonzo style that he would Develop, but they really show the makings of a very good journalist. And I mean, they're entertaining and they're informative and insightful, and he really put a lot of work into them. And I enjoyed those very much.

[A]

Yeah, there was a lot of interesting articles that you mentioned throughout that I never heard of that seem like I was reading about them. I was like, I really want to go ahead and. And read these articles. One of them that you highlight in particular was this article on Big Sur. Big Sur, the Tropic of Henry Miller. What was that article about?

[B]

Well, when. Soon after he got married and then they moved out to California and he was going to go to California and just hide himself away in Big Sur and just write the great American novel. That's what he was planning. Now this is the. The Rome Diary is the work that he was. He was working on. So he had. He had already been to Puerto Rico and spent his, you know, some. Some of his early journalistic experience in Puerto Rico. And so he was going to start writing that up. And, and so that was the main reason why they went out to California. Now he and his wife Sandy got position as caretakers at this estate in, in Big Sur. And it was really a. A great experience. And so he was, you know, Henry Miller was. Would. Had made it his home. And so. And it attracted a lot of other characters to, to the place. And so he really captured the. The feel of the place in his article. Now he published it in Immense magazine and even had, you know, photographs of his wife. This is Naked Wife in the, in the magazine. And it was. But it's a magazine that he named names in the magazine and upset a lot of residents who, you know, some of whom went to Big Surfer to be anonymous and to kind of hide away. And so they resented the fact that he was mentioning their names in the article.

[A]

Yeah, it's a. It's definitely something I want to read. And I think also Hunter was always finding interesting figures to write about in many ways, writing about interesting people, then finding. Finding almost the way to then write about himself, you know, becoming this, you know, over time, becoming this interesting figure. Obviously he becomes like this over time, becomes even more and more of an eccentric person. You know, how much of it do you. Of his eccentricity do you think was innate and how much of it was, you know, maybe a result of, you know, drug abuse or the fame or other things? What do you think was the source of his just absurdity?

[B]

Well, I think that. I mean, I think he's a genius But I also think that he was an alcoholic and a drug addict. And you can see Marx of brilliance in his early writings, but in his later writings, oh, in the last decade or so of his life, it's just pitiful because I think that, I mean, I don't know that he ever had a brain scan done, but I mean, I think that any brain doctor would notice some serious deterioration in it because he could, he reached a point where he could hardly put two sentences together. And you know, even if you, if you talk to the editors who worked with him toward the end, that he couldn't, he couldn't even put a thousand words together for, for an article. And even, I mean he was, he really helped to make the reputation of Rolling Stone magazine. And Jim Winner, the longtime editor of Rolling Stone was offering him 100 toward the end of his life, $10,000 just for a 1500 word article. And he couldn't do it. He couldn't put 1500 words together. I thought, yeah, I know a lot of freelance writers today would kill for that much money. Nobody gets that much money, $10,000 for 1500 words. But he couldn't do it. I mean his brain was so fried that uh, I mean it was, it was years, decades of alcohol abuse. I mean ever since he was about 14, I mean he, he drank every day. Well, if he was awake, he was drinking. And so it's, it's kind of sad to see where he ended up.

[A]

Yeah, definitely. It's, it is, it is tragic. And, and I think, you know, when he was younger and maybe had more energy, that's probably why he was, he was so effective. He was just so sharp and had.

[B]

This.

[A]

Mind altered state that he was bringing to reality. He was really a man that seemed to meet the moment in a way he almost feels perfectly suited for the 60s and the 70s. In the 60s there was obviously a lot of change going on with journalism. New styles of journalism that were proliferating. New journalists like Tom Wolfe. What was his relationship to these other journalists?

[B]

Well, he was friends with Tom Wolf and they both recognized the talent each other one had. And one of the earliest references to use the phrase new journalism is in a letter from Tom Wolf to Hunter Thompson. And so they were both recognized that they, they formed part of that new movement, the new journalism. And they, they were both realized that the new journalists had to get involved in, in their subject matter and become a part of it. Now, now Hunter always became much more of a part of it. I mean when Tom Wolf was on the Electric Kool Aid Acid tour. I mean, he was always, you know, he spent a long time with Ken Kesey and his other. Other guys on the. On the magic bus, but he never really became one of them. Whereas Thompson would immerse himself in his milieu much more thoroughly.

[A]

Yeah, I know Tom Wolfe when he was writing Electrocool Aid Acid Test here, he had not taken acid, and I think he took it after he had written maybe his first draft, later drafts, just because he felt like he had to in order to understand, you know, what he was observing. I mean, that's just a. That's, you know, one of my favorite books. So just absolutely a phenomenally absurd book. And, And Thompson, too, you know, it's obvious, you know, there's a. Almost a. A, A way that the Hell's Angels book feels like a. A kind of similar. This kind of similar American Road genre.

[B]

How did.

[A]

How did Thompson really started to develop this gonzo style? And if you could just define gonzo for listeners if they're unfamiliar with the term.

[B]

Well, the. We make a distinction in my book between new journalism and gonzo journalism. Now, new journalism is, you know, like Tom Wolf, where. Where you've got to immerse yourself in the subject and really spend a long time with the people that you're. That you're writing about and write it from a personal point of view. I mean, with new journalism gone was the perspective of the objective journalist. You're not objective anymore. You're writing from the perspective of your subject, or you're writing to criticize your subject, but you're not trying to be objective. Now, as Godzilla journalism, as I see it, is a subset of new journalism, but there's only one person who can write gonzo journalism, and that's Hunter Thompson. And there's only one person who can illustrate gonzo journalism, and that's Ralph Steadman. Now, Thompson started a big wave of Thompson wannabes, a lot of people who were trying to be gonzo journalists. But from my perspective, you know, there's only one Gonzalez. Only one person can be a gonzo journalist, and that's Hunter Thompson himself. And that's, you know, one of the big differences between new journalism and gonzo journalism is gonzo, is that drugs and alcohol are part of the stock and trade. I mean, you have to be drugged up or drunk to write these things. And it's only from that warped perspective that you can write your gonzo journalism.

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[B]

He was with a lot of other people who were protesting the mainstream America and coming down on the button down world, you know, like the hippies of the era. And I, I don't think that I, I think Thompson would, would object to being classified with the hippies. And if you look at him, he's always, you know, he never had the long hair or the, or the beads or any of those other cliches of the hippies of the era. Not really cliches because I mean, you look at pictures and you can see they're like that. And so he was, you know, more, more straight laced, you know, even though he was, he was doing more drugs than anyone else of the era. But he, so, but I think he, he shared an interest in challenging society and challenging the strictures of society and the traditional ways of behaving and the ways you're supposed to behave. And so I think that he really, a lot of people could relate to that at that time period.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was wondering if you talk a little bit about those, you know, Fear and Loathing and Hell's Angels, you know, what is it, what is it for you that you like about it? And also, you know, sort of thinking about this particular book, you know, I was reading about the series, this Understanding series from, from the, from South Carolina Press, and you know, it's, it's, it seems slightly geared towards, towards students, you know, maybe to teach them about writing, teach them about great writers. But what is it about those, those two books that you think is, you know, things that, that, that young student writers should take into account as they're, as they're trying to develop their own voice and style.

[B]

Well, as, as far as the model of writing goes, I think Hell's Angels would be much more effective if, if someone is trying to develop their style. Because like I said, it's, you know, as I distinguish between new journalism and Godzilla journalism, I think that we could classify Hell's Angels is new journalism, but Fear and Loathing Las Vegas is gonzo journalism. And so even the Hell's Angels, which is often classified as one of his gonzo works, I wouldn't classify it as such, but I think that one of the things that it shows is his descriptive ability, his ability to draw these characters, to describe what they, you know, these Hell's Angels, what they look like, how they acted, how they interacted with themselves, how they interacted with others. It's, you know, for the, for the student or, or for the would be writer out there is to look at his, his description, look at his eye, how he looked at things and saw things and, and saw how they interacted and interrelated. And that's one of the standout aspects of Bethel, I think.

[A]

Right. Yeah. He then writes this book, Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail, that was cobbled together, edited still, but from essays that he wrote following the campaign that would eventually see Nixon elected reelected. What was this book like in terms of sort of burnishing his role as a political commentator?

[B]

Well, this was something that he wrote originally for Rolling Stone magazine, and it was really the brainchild of Jan Wenner. Now what Wenner did was, you know, he, he gave Thompson, you know, a great opportunity just to, okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna make you Rolling Stone political commentator. I'm gonna give you a title, I'm gonna give you a salary. And you just have to write, you know, an article every month or every couple weeks for the Rolling Stone magazine. And even then it was, it was tough for Thompson to do. He just hated deadlines and had a real inability to make deadlines. But Wetter was able to get him to keep his word and keep writing all that whole summer during the campaign season. So, but in a way, Wenner was also taking advantage of him because he really saw Thompson as a product. This is something that helped sell magazines. And, you know, he, he took the Thompson's title from his earlier book, Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas. And, and every article that appeared in Rolling Stone was called Fear and Loathing in Da da da. And then Rolling Stone, the publishing arm of Rolling Stone magazine, as published the first edition of Fear and Loathing on the campaign trail. So it was very much a product of Rolling Stone. And to Wenner's credit, it helped Thompson, helped establish the tone of the whole magazine and that it has to this day. And it helped to establish it as a major voice and an alternate voice in the American magazine culture.

[A]

Right. Yeah, he, he, he then, you know, as you mentioned, for, you know, working for the Rolling Stone, he, he's spending a lot of time, he's traveling, you know, the world, you know, reporting on all sorts of thing, all sorts of different events, you know, everything from the Vietnam War to boxing matches. You know, what, what was this, this period of journalism like for him? And, and also, you know, I, I, I think as you sort of point out, I mean, you know, these are sort of, I, I'm sure you would probably agree with this that, you know, these three works are his probably best works. And then after that, it's. It's kind of a decline. Would you say that's accurate?

[B]

Yeah, that's absolutely accurate. I think it's a major decline after.

[A]

Like you said, it's become a crutch for him at this point in life.

[B]

Right. And I think that, I mean, the decline begins with the last, last chapter of Fear, Fear and Loathing on the campaign trail, because it was a chapter that Jan Winer wanted him to write. And it was the. The election was over, Nixon had won, and Thompson was not. Was done with it. He didn't want to do anymore. And so Winner just gave him. Put him in a motel in San Francisco and gave him a tape recorder and just had him tape record his last chapter. And so to me, that's the. The decline really begins at that point. And, you know, the next. His next book is called the Great Shark Hunt, and it's a collection of essays previously published, most of them previously published essays. And so he's already doing an anthology of his work. And to me, it's something that he decided, okay, I'm a gonzo journalist. That's what I do. I'm gonna do gonzo. And he didn't ever mature beyond that. He found his niche and, you know, he found his identity and he didn't. He never reached that point where he said, oh, okay, well, this Godzilla thing's played out. I'm going to try something new. I'm going to try to write something different. And so he never really reached that point in his development. And so, you know, part of it, his lady works we can blame on laziness, part of it we can blame on drugs and alcohol. But also too, his unwillingness to. To try something new, to. To take a chance. And that's one. Something that really marks his early works that they were so daring and were so different. But then he quit being daring and different and just became a. Almost a parody of himself. I mean, that's a hard thing to say, but I mean, that's how I interpret it.

[A]

He obviously, as. As a young person, you know, dreamed of being a novelist. He becomes a journalist, you know, with a literary flair, which perfectly suited the time. But, you know, how did he. How did he think about his work in terms of trying to still write that great American novel?

[B]

Well, when he came away from Puerto Rico, I mean, he had the idea for Rum Diary, and this was going to be his great American novel. He didn't say great American novel, but he said great Puerto Rican novel. And you know, there's some interesting things in the book. But then he never could. You know, he had a hard time putting it aside because like I said, it was really patterned on the Great Gatsby, on two works, the Great Gatsby and the Sun Also Rises. Now he realized that both of those works were a good pattern, at least in terms of length. I mean, he said the Great Gatsby is the ideal length for a novel. But he couldn't put the rum diary down. He kept expanding it and expanding it and ended up being at one point over a thousand pages long. And so the version that was finally published in the 1990s is this thousand page version that was cut down by. Not by him because his brain was too fried by that point, but by his editors. And they were the ones who made it into a publishable and marketable product. And it sold really well. It was, it was a, it was a bestseller. Although, I mean, I, I think it's a. Not as great as it could have been or once might have been at some point in the compositional process.

[A]

What about his letter writing? What do you think of, think of, of their literary value or just what they, what they expose about him as a, as an individual?

[B]

Well, I think his Letters, he was an excellent letter writer and he published two volumes of Letters. And there's a big difference between the two. In the first volume, he's just the young up and coming go getter. And it really has the quality of. His first volume of Letters has the quality of a buildings Roman, the young man trying to find his way in the world. And you know, it ends with the publication of Hell's Angels. Well, with the success of that book, then he got more full of himself and became more demanding of his publishers. And if you read the second volume of Letters, you know, they've, you know, he just becomes very pushy and very needy and it's almost as if he wanted, you know, expected things from people and he deserved it. And he was entitled to, you know, to, for editors to give him ideas and to pay his expenses wherever he went, no matter where he went, no matter what he did, no matter how many room service bills he rang up, you know, he was entitled to it. He was the great writer and, you know, they should pay his way. And then something else the letters also show is that he used letter writing as a kind of front when he couldn't write his book. And then he would just write letters and he would write more. Enough letters to fill a book or to fill two books. Now but it's the second line of letters I find very difficult to read through because they just become the same thing over and over again. Him expecting more from his editors expecting them to do bent over backwards for him and him unwilling to reciprocate with some good writing.

[A]

He goes almost full circle. He, I think he's, one of his first roles is he's doing sports editing or sports writing. And then he's, you know, at the end of his life he's worked writing for espn. How did that even come about.

[B]

Now? Well, one of the guys who was the editor, one of the editors for Rolling Stone headed up to be in charge of ESPN.com and he, he knew Hunter Thompson was, was kind of not as good as he used to be, but he, his name still sold and, and so he recruited him to, to write a regular column for ESPN.com and you know, this one I mentioned earlier that, you know, he had trouble putting a thousand words together. You know, this is what I was talking about is his, you know, the editors [e-mail] had to feed him ideas and get him to try and put some sentences together, something they could use. And they had to put in a lot of work just to make it into a publishable column. And so that was really the, almost the low point, I think, in his journalistic career.

[A]

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[B]

I think the editors need to get a lot of credit in the history of Hunter Thompson's career because they, besides editing his work later on, they were the ones who motivated him and got him to write. When he was writing a regular column for the San Francisco Chronicle, the newspaper actually assigned a full time guy to, to him just to make sure he would turn his articles in every week. And so I, I think the editors really need a Lot of credit for what Thompson did. Right. I mean, he still had the brilliance, but it, you know, he. The laziness combined with the, the drugs and, and alcohol. Really, he needed hand holding to get it done.

[A]

Yeah, he, he. He obviously, you know, his life takes a sort of a tragic turn. He seems, you know, the, the. Just The. The compounding effect of years and years and years of, of alcohol and drug abuse. You know, what are his, his. His final care, his final days like? And, you know, how do you, how do you think about his legacy? You know, his legacy since he died and his legacy today?

[B]

Well, I want to emphasize that my book is not a biography. I mean, it's chronologically structured, but it concentrates on his writing career. I don't think I could write a biography of him because it's too sad. The ending, the final story of his life. I mean, he shoots himself, but shoots himself with his little grandson was in the house and. Oh, it just, it's just so sad. I mean, the ending of his life now in terms of. And that's not the only thing. I mean, if you read his son wrote a book about his father and, you know, that's pretty sad and depressing too. I mean, Thompson had to have surgery, you know, pretty serious back surgery at the end of his life. And he, the first time, two different surgeries. The first time they had to put him into a coma or else he would go through the dts. And then the second time, I think they didn't put him in a induced coma, but then the doctor let him drink whiskey in the recovery room because otherwise he would go into the dts. And so that's one of those, you know, you're an alcoholic when. And, you know, it's interesting to read the son's book about his dad and how the son was. Oh, I knew, you know, if he didn't get something to drink when he came out of surgery, he was going to start giving everyone help. And it's almost like, I mean, it's the. Almost the kind of classic case of people related to alcoholics, how they're, you know, they kind of. It affects their behavior and, you know, they start fearing, oh, when. When he's. He's getting drunk again, watch out. And so it's, it's kind of, you know, it's just that the life story is really pitiful, I think. And to. To talk about his legacy and answer the second part of your question, I think that we need to just kind of separate the, you know, those, Those dark moments from and just look at the, the earlier stuff and concentrate on his, his writing, his, his unique style, his, his originality and just kind of ignore everything after about 1973.

[A]

It's funny too. I, you know, I've only really read his early stuff. I just never even, I, I, I mean, yeah, with the exception, I guess, of, of seeing the Rum Diary movie. I hadn't even considered maybe I've read a couple articles from, you know, the ESPN days just out of curiosity. But it's really his early, his early work that, or I suppose his, you know, his work that he wrote in his 30s, that, that seems to have been his, you know, his period of, of mastery and, and I think that, that even today, you know, he's such a, an important person for anyone to, you know, to read who's interested in journalism and interested in American literature. And yeah, he's definitely, he's, he, I, I, my guess is that only with time will his legend grow. He'll become like, you know, Paul Bunyan or one of these, you know, Johnny Appleseed or something. A kind of a drug addled Johnny Appleseed. So that's, that, that's my prediction.

[B]

Well, it's interesting. I mean, when he died, I mean, I've read several obituaries and many people said that his work will last when other new journalists have been forgotten. And it's extraordinary when you think about it. I mean, as I say, anything after 1973 we can just ignore. But it's how short a period does his best work cover? 1967 is when Hell's Angels came out and 73 is when Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail came out. And so we have a period of six or seven years when all of his best stuff was written and published. And so it's just a tiny amount of time for his great works to be published.

[A]

An aspect of Thompson that I feel like is part of the brilliance that sets him apart is there are very few authors that also have an entire visual style that is distinctly, recognizably tied to their work. You know, someone like Robert Crumb obviously wrote comics in addition to having a recognizable art style. But could you talk a little bit about Ralph Stedman and his importance to creating this overall kind of literary style for Thompson?

[B]

Yeah, I, earlier I said that Thompson is the only one who can write gonzo journalism and Steadman is the only one who can illustrate God's journalism. And you know, Stedman, his, his illustrations are just brilliant. I mean the first one he illustrated was Thompson's article about the Kentucky Derby. And it was a kind of a, a fluke because after Thompson retired then he lost all his, his, that's colored pencils. And there was a woman who, who, whom he, he knew who sold samples for Revlon and so she gave him a bunch of lipsticks and stuff. And so for the first, the first set of illustrations for Hunter Thompson was done with eye pencil and lipstick, but it really established a distinctive palette and style for that. Now Steadman went on to illustrate the Fear and loathing of Las Vegas. And I mentioned earlier the Curse of Lono, which is really, I think, much more Steadman's book than Thomson's. Stedman's full color illustrations for that are brilliant and really Steadman's work is much better than Thompson's work in that book. But they became associated and yeah, I mean, as soon as you see an illustration from Ralph Steadman, then you think of Hunter Thompson.

[A]

It's so recognizable. And what's amazing too is that, you know, he's still, he's still like, I was just, I was looking him up. He's still producing work for, you know, he's producing album covers and film posters to this day for some really big albums still like I was. He's. He's produced some, some album covers for some very famous like, like hip hop artists that are, you know, number one album. Like it's, it's unbelievable the staying power of, of his artwork.

[B]

I think of Flying Dog Fury because he, he did all. Does all the illustrations for, for those, for all the different beers and the ales and everything like that. And that was a. Another Thompson connection because the guy who founded Flying Dog Brewery is George Stranahan, who was a neighbor of Thompson's in Aspen. And he and Stedman got together and Steadman ended up doing all the illustrations for all the beer packaging.

[A]

I know exactly the beer you're talking about. And I always thought it was a ripoff, but I guess it was an original.

[B]

It's original.

[A]

There's been actually quite a few times where I've seen the Hunter S. Thompson type artwork. And then now I'm in research for this interview. I'm realizing I actually. It was just him. He's still alive. You know, there's something about it like, like, even, even Hunter Thompson, like in my mind he died like decades ago, but I guess it wasn't even that long ago. It was only 2005 when he died. You know, it just. He feels like, like a part of this, this almost you know, this, this, this ancient American past, it just feels so, so different than today. And. And it's just unbelievable, the impact that he had from, really, those two books. Just unbelievable what he was able to accomplish. And I think anyone who is Hunter Thompson of those people where it's like anyone who is not a big reader and wants to read something fun, interesting, Thompson is such a great place to go.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Well, Kevin, it was really so wonderful to speak with you about your book, Understanding Huntress Thompson, and it was great to have you on again.

[B]

Well, thank you very much. I enjoyed it.

[A]

Me, too.