Leila Sales, "The Museum of Lost and Found" (Harry N. Abrams, 2023)

Summary

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Podcast Summary: New Books Network – Interview with Leila Sales, "The Museum of Lost and Found"

Host: Mel Rosenberg
Guest: Leila Sales
Date: February 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of the New Books Network Children's Literature Channel features Mel Rosenberg in an in-depth conversation with Leila Sales—children's author, editor, and newly-appointed Editorial Director ("chief honcho") at Kar-Ben Publishing, a leading Jewish children's imprint. The discussion ranges from Leila’s editorial philosophies and acquisitions at Kar-Ben, her experiences at major publishers like Viking (Penguin Random House), the interplay between writing for passion and the market, and the inspiration and themes behind her latest middle-grade novel, The Museum of Lost and Found.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Leila Sales' New Role at Kar-Ben Publishing

• Learning the Ropes: Leila shares that her first months at Kar-Ben have involved acclimating to new systems, inheriting a slate of books in various stages of production, and only now beginning to shape her own editorial vision.
  • "I just started at Kar-Ben a few months ago...I inherited about 18 books that were in various forms of reduction." [02:00]
• First Acquisitions: She notes that while much of the upcoming lists were set, she has started picking books for Fall 2027 and Spring 2028, including a Hanukkah picture book, a 'Jewish values' story, and a historical fiction title about the first Jews in America.
  • "I've acquired a small handful of things...We needed a Hanukkah book, so I acquired one...One is Jewish Values Books...the other...is historical fiction." [02:46-04:27]

What Leila Looks for as an Acquirer

• Primary Focus: Kar-Ben mostly publishes picture books (fiction & nonfiction), plus some middle grade and graphic novels. The core: strong narrative, agency-filled main characters, and suspense—even if the stakes are low and playful.
  • “I’m a person who reads for story, and I like character...I want readers to be in some sort of suspense, even if it's very silly and the stakes are very low.” [04:47-08:56]
• Atmosphere Exception: Board books and some picture books may be more experiential, with less focus on full narrative arcs or conflict.
  • “It can be hard to do a full narrative arc in the 12 pages of a board book.” [06:46]

Editorial Career Highlights

• Viking Years: Managed iconic backlists (Corduroy, Madeline, Ferdinand, Ezra Jack Keats) and worked with authors like Viola Davis (on a Corduroy anniversary book), Max Brallier, and Gail Forman.
  • “I was at Viking Children's Books for more than a decade...I managed new publishing for Corduroy and for Angelina Ballerina, Ferdinand and Ezra Jack Keats.” [09:10-11:26]

The Art vs. Commerce Dilemma in Children's Books

• Writing to Market vs. Writing from Passion:
  • Mel raises the classic worry: "The moment you...write to a purpose, a goal...you’re not going to get the story right.” [12:28]
  • Leila agrees:
    “When you go in with something you’re trying to say, I think that often is not going to lead to a great story...It’s far more interesting to go in with rather than, ‘here’s something I know,’ here is a motif or an idea that I want to explore.” [13:40]
• Editorial Role as Translator:
  • Balancing writerly passion and publishing realities: “Editors and agents translate back and forth between the author...and the sales and marketing team...You have to be bringing in books that are going to sell enough copies to justify the expense.” [14:53]

Impact of PJ Library & Market Realities on Jewish Publishing

• PJ Library’s Influence: For Jewish publishers like Kar-Ben, the potential for large PJ Library purchases can make niche topics viable, but also steers acquisition decisions.
  • "At Kar-Ben...whether or not you get a special sale, which is to say PJ Library, becomes a much bigger deal..." [19:41]
• Trade-off: Mel asks whether this pressure restricts editorial risk-taking. Leila acknowledges the limitation:
  • “I do think about what [PJ] are going to want when I am selecting books...It’s part of my process.” [22:44]
  • But she compares it to other market forces (like retailer input on cover and title design).

Leila as an Author: Writing Process & Personal Voice

• Difficulty of Writing Picture Books:
  • Leila, though a prolific author, admits even she hasn’t published her own picture book:
    “Writing picture books is really hard...I can’t get to the end in a way that doesn’t feel preachy, contrived, talking down to kids…” [25:22-27:14]
• Age & Emotional Resonance:
  • The host suggests: "If you have a five-year-old Lila, then you can write picture books,"—an idea Leila playfully agrees with.
  • On writing for personal catharsis: “I don’t write for kids. I write for me. There’s a little Melvin...who is hurt. And I address this hurt.” – Mel Rosenberg [29:22]
• Writing vs. Editing:
  • Leila notes she’s always combined both, finding editing less existentially fraught than writing:
    “With writing, sometimes you feel like this is a problem you’re not able to solve...And I don’t feel that with editing.” [32:35]

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"The Museum of Lost and Found": Inspiration & Themes

• Book Premise:
  • Main character Vanessa copes with a broken friendship by curating a makeshift museum of friendship artifacts, which draws in a diverse cast of kids and memories.
    “She discovers an abandoned museum in her town, and she starts filling the museum with artifacts of her friendship with Bailey and categorizing them and organizing them and displaying them…” [34:59]
• Origin Story:
  • The concept came after Leila’s earlier middle-grade on youth civic engagement (The Campaign) and a brainstorming session about “grownup” things for kids to do, with a friend suggesting kids running an abandoned ice cream factory. “I always really liked books… where kids are doing things that you expect only adults get to do…an abandoned rundown museum…and that’s how I came up with The Museum of Lost and Found.” [36:00]
• Resolution/Ambiguity:
  • Rather than restoring her old friendship, Vanessa finds clarity and new connections: “At the end of the book...they mend fences somewhat, but also there’s the understanding of it’s not going to go back to the way it was…” [38:31]

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Advice For Aspiring Authors

• Write What Matters to You—Then Switch Hats:
  • “Write things that you care about intensely. And then if you’re very lucky…someone else will say, Oh my goodness, what a story arc. Wow.” – B [40:05]
  • When submitting, treat the process like a business application:
    “The writing part is a passion…But the publishing thing, as soon as you start submitting your work…it’s a business…” [41:00]
• Submission Tips, Especially for Kar-Ben:
  • Open to agented & unagented manuscripts; professionalism matters; classic Jewish holidays are perennially in demand—but fresh takes and stories from lesser-known Jewish experiences/communities are especially welcomed. “I like fun, I like whimsy, I like joy...The holidays are always good for us...I like a good picture book biography, if there's a real story there...” [43:30-45:30]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On why picture books are hard:
  “I can’t get to the end in a way that doesn’t feel preachy, contrived, talking down to kids, you know, doesn’t have a full plot arc…maybe someday I’ll publish one, but yeah, it’s hard.” — Leila Sales [25:22]
• On market forces and artistic choices:
  “Whenever you are editing books, you are giving thought to what the market for them is going to be…Barnes and Noble says we don’t like the cover, and if you changed the cover we would take 5,000 copies. If you don’t…we’ll take zero…” — Leila Sales [22:44]
• On writing from the inside out:
  “We actually all have inside of us every version of ourselves who we have ever been or ever will be. Right. It’s just a question of if you can tap into that version of yourself…” — Leila Sales [29:06]
• On writing and editing:
  “With writing, sometimes you feel like this is a problem you’re not able to solve...And I don’t feel that with editing…But I never lose my faith of like, Oh, I’m capable of doing this.” — Leila Sales [32:35]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:58 - Leila Sales discusses her new role at Kar-Ben and inheriting ongoing lists.
• 04:47 - Detailed breakdown of what she looks for in submissions: strong narrative, character agency, suspense.
• 09:10 - Reflections on her editing career at Viking/Penguin Random House.
• 13:40 - Explores the pitfalls of writing to teach a lesson or market vs. writing for discovery.
• 19:41 - The outsized influence of PJ Library on Jewish children’s publishing decisions.
• 25:22 - The challenge and humility required to write good picture books.
• 34:59 - Introduction to The Museum of Lost and Found: plot, inspiration, and approach.
• 38:31 - Discussing the novel's ending—resolutions that aren’t perfect restorations.
• 41:00 - Submission advice: balancing personal passion and professionalism.
• 43:30 - Specific wish list topics and qualities for Kar-Ben submissions.

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a rich resource for emerging children's authors, editors, and anyone interested in Jewish publishing. Leila Sales offers candid insight into both the artistic and business sides of kidlit. She encourages writers to lead with passion, then channel professionalism when seeking publication. Her open-door policy at Kar-Ben makes her a rare touchpoint for both new and seasoned voices in children's literature.

For submissions or more about Leila's editorial interests, visit her website, where her current wish list is available.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to the New Books Network.

[B]

Welcome. Welcome to the wonderful Lionel Sales. Wow. I'm so honored. I'm really honored. I'm just delighted to have you on the program. And before I forget, I'm going to mention the name of the program, because then I always forget. So. I'm Mel Rosenberg, and I am the host of the Children's Literature Channel of the New Books Network. And I'm here with a wonderful Lila Sales who wears several hats. I mean, you don't see it in the video, but trust me, she's a famous children's author and she's an editor, and she's now the chief honcho at the. I don't know if honcho is a good word for a Jewish publisher, but you're the big shock at Carbon Publishing, which is a highly regarded publisher, many of Jewish children's books. And Lila, welcome. We have so much to talk about.

[A]

Thank you for inviting me on. I'm really glad to be here.

[B]

So let's start with your new job, chief honcho. I mean, the official.

[A]

That's my official title, Chief honcho.

[B]

Yeah. You're the editorial director. But essentially, if I understand correctly, you're the one now who decides what books get published. Macar Bear. And what's the direction of the publishing host is going to be. And like, wow.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So up to us.

[A]

It's. It's a big responsibility, and I feel like I'm still getting a handle on it. I just started at Carbon a few months ago, and, you know, most of my first few months have been just learning everything that's going on. Right. Like, you know, learning all of our internal systems. Of course. I'm like, learning who everybody is. Carbon is an imprint of Learner, which is really great because we get to specialize in publishing children's books, but we get the support, the sales and marketing and all of the efficiencies of a larger publisher.

[B]

Right.

[A]

But it being, you know, so there's so much to learn. And then also, of course, I stepped in and I inherited a lot of books that were all in various phases of production. So, you know, Carbon has been publishing about six books a season. We have two seasons per year. So, yeah. So I came in and inherited about 18 books that were in various forms of reduction. So, yeah. So it's been a lot to come up to speed on, and I'm only sort of just now starting to turn my attention to figuring out what my vision is for the list going forward and what my. What my acquisitions plan is going to look like.

[B]

Have you acquired any?

[A]

Yeah, I have. I've acquired a small handful of things for. Let me see, I guess my first acquisitions are for fall 2027. The list was almost like it had been almost entirely acquired. But we needed a. We needed a Hanukkah book, so I acquired. I acquired one which I think is really fun and fantastical, is going to have really cute setting, really fun illustrations. So I got a Hanukkah book, and then maybe that's all I got for fall. And then so far, I've acquired two books for spring 2028. One is Jewish Values Books is about sort of. It's about a girl who. I don't know if I'm yet allowed to say, you know, the authors of anything or whatever. So I'm just being very vague.

[B]

My job is to get you to say these things and then regret them. So that.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, it'll probably be five. But anyway, one is a Jewish values book and which is, you know, just, I like, really empowering. It's, you know, shows a girl with a lot of agency. She has really clear goals. She, you know, she encounters some hardships. But. And then the other one that I've acquired for spring 28 is historical fiction, and it's about the. The first Jews who came to America.

[B]

So.

[A]

Yeah. But I still need to acquire a bunch more for spring 28 and start looking towards fall 28.

[B]

So thousands of the people, aspiring writers, are waiting for you to spill the beans. Yeah, spill.

[A]

All right. What do you. What do you want to know?

[B]

What are you looking for?

[A]

Okay, so in terms of category, we mostly do picture books. We occasionally do middle grade novels, we occasionally do graphic novels, chapter books, and occasionally we do board books. But primarily, the bread and butter of carbon is picture books, and it's fiction and nonfiction. I personally am drawn to. I like plot. Like, I'm a. I'm a person who reads for story, and I like character. Uh, so, you know, what I'm drawn to is a character who's, you know, sort of immediately likable, relatable in some fashion, who has something that they want. They have a goal, they have a motivation, and there's some obstacle sitting in their way of why they can't have that thing immediately and then that they. They exercise their personal agency in order to go out and try and achieve that thing. And then at the end, by the end of the book, you know, maybe they do achieve it, or maybe they find something else that is equally satisfying along the way and learn that their original goal is not actually what they needed. And to me, that's the structure for pretty much all books, regardless of. Regardless of age group. And I want. You know, I want to be. I. I want readers to be in. In some sort of suspense, even if it's very silly and the stakes are very low. I want there to be some sort of suspense of how is the main character going to solve this problem. You think about, like the John Classen book, I Want My Hat Back. And it's such a great example of this. If you just start out with. You have a character and he has a want. He wants his hat back, and nothing sitting in his way is he. He doesn't know where his hat is, so he goes out in search of the hat. And you, the reader, don't know. You don't know if he's going to find it, how he's going to find it, what he's going to do about it. And the way that he actually does go about finding it, of course, is completely unexpected and delightfully naughty. But, yeah, for me, that's sort of the core. And then, of course, there are exceptions to that, right? You know, there are some. There are some books, particularly board books, but sometimes picture books as well, that are just sort of more atmospheric and setting the scene, you know, can be hard to do a full narrative arc in the 12 pages of a board book. Actually, I have acquired one board book as well, which is a Sukkot board book, and that's my other fall 27 acquisition. And that is much more. You know, it's. It's walking you through the steps of. It's a beautiful fall day and we're building a sukkah. But, you know, I wouldn't say there's a lot of conflict in there. Nothing is standing in the way of these toddlers building a sukkah.

[B]

No. No tornadoes waiting. Yeah.

[A]

No, I said no, we don't get to page 15. So. Because it's a board book, it's a real show. So imagine if you got to page 15, who knows? Could be tornadoes. So, yeah, so mostly that. And then I like books that are, you know, I like books that are fun, often, that are funny, that are whimsical, fantastical. You know, the. The beauty of a. Of a book is you don't have to be tied down to the realities of world and the. And the practical limitations that we have. Right. So you can. There's no. A picture book that's a kid and a parent sitting at a dining room table and, you know, discussing rhetorical Situations like, to me, that feels like sort of a waste. I don't want to see illustrations, them sitting around at the kitchen table. I want to see the kid out there experiencing those. Those situations that for. For us people stuck in reality can only be in our imagination.

[B]

Oh, I love that. But you have had a varied career. Yes. As an editor, you've worked with major publishers such as Penguin Random House. Who did you work with? The Penguin Random House.

[A]

So I was at Viking Children's Books for more than a decade, and Viking is an incredible place because it's been around for. Gosh, this Viking. Yeah, yeah. It's been around since the Vikings. No, this part's probably been around, like, 85 years. I don't know, because I was there when it turned 75, maybe longer. Anyway, just an incredible backlist of Corduroy and Ferdinand and the Snowy Day and Madeline and more recently, Llama. Llama.

[B]

My favorite.

[A]

Madeline's your favorite. I love Madeline. Yeah. My publisher had an original, beautiful work of framed art and oil painting that Ludwig Bebelmans had done that hung in her office. It's just such a. You know, such a storied place. So, yeah, while I was there, I worked on. I managed some of Viking's backlist properties. So I managed new publishing for Corduroy and for Angelina Ballerina, Ferdinand and Ezra Jack Keats.

[B]

Just show everybody the Corduroy book you were. You edited.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. So this is a Corduroy book that I did with Viola Davis, the actress, because, yeah, I was in charge of Corduroy, and we were trying to figure out new publishing. I think it was Corduroy's 50th anniversary, and I was trying to think what would be fun for it. And then I read this article that said Viola Davis was. They were interviewing. You know, it was in People magazine or Entertainment Weekly, and they were interviewing famous actors about their favorite children's books. And Viola Davis said hers was Corduroy. So I was, like, incredible. Reached out to her agent and said, does she want to write a new Corduroy book? So that was really fun. But, yeah, I edited the Last Kids on Earth series by Max Bralier. We worked together for many, many years. I edited a few books by Gail Forman.

[B]

I.

[A]

You and I were talking about how I edited Alan Silberberg's first book. And I edited some books by Greg Pizzoli, Amy Dyckman. I don't know. I could just keep listing. Listing names. And then. And then, of course, a bunch of other people as well. I. Various you know, series and standalones. It was a great job. Yeah.

[B]

Fantastic. So here's the. Now we're going to get to the nitty gritty, then we're going to talk about Lila as an author. So there is this dilemma for authors, and I'm going to bring it out into the open.

[A]

Do it.

[B]

Which is some people say you have to write to a market. And it makes sense because, you know, if I write a book about Pesach and you're interested in Hanukkah, you're not going to. By my Pesach book, even though it's a fantastic Pesach book, I'm sure. Yeah. And I don't have. But I said. I just. This is the.

[A]

I'm. But theoretically, I'm sure it would be. Yeah.

[B]

If I had a Pesach book. And I don't subscribe to this because this is my experience. And you can shoot me down the moment that you. As an editor or an author, anybody, write to a purpose, a goal, a reason, a motif, a belief, you're not going to get the story right. So you have this, you know, you talk about you want to get really good stories. But if I'm. If you say to Mel, I need a good Hanukkah, I mean, you have now a Hanukkah story. Give me another holiday.

[A]

Purim.

[B]

Purim. You need a good Purim story, by the way. I have one. But if you're looking for a poem. If I sit down to write a poem story today by Lila Sales, it's not going to be a really good pouring book because I'm driven by a certain. I just can't go wild. I can't invoke my subconscious, my unconscious, my semiconscious. I'm taking, pouring, pouring, pouring. Lila, Lila. Lila. What is she interested in? Okay. And then I have more questions to answer this.

[A]

Yeah. Okay. So I. What you've said has brought up a bunch of thoughts for me. So the first thing I'm going to say is I, I agree that when you go in with something you're trying to say, I. I think that often is not going to lead to a great story. And. But I think where I notice it more, more is when authors. This happens a lot in children's books. And it's when authors feel like they know something that a child should know. And so then they're just trying to figure out, how do I arrange this story so that by the end of it, the child knows the thing that I know? And that's how you wind up with a lot of books that are. Are a lot of stories that are just a kid sort of sitting there while, you know, a wise old bubby or zadie tells them, you know, the truth of the world. And I think it's far more interesting to go in with rather than, here's something I know here is a motif or an idea that I want to explore. And maybe I don't know the answer yet either, but through the process of writing this book and you reading this book, we're going to discover some possibilities together. So I feel that quite strongly in terms of the, you know, writing for the market. I think it is. It's a hard question and sort of a nuanced one, I'm going to say, because it's when you start to get into the distinction between writing as art and writing as commerce, and which is something that editors and agents have to be really fluent in that because we are the editors and agents are the roles that translate back and forth between the author and the illustrators, you know, the creatives and the sales and marketing team or the business people. Which is not to say that sales and marketing people don't love books. They do. That's why they're in those roles. But their jobs depend upon selling those books and this. And, and by the way, agents and editors jobs also depend upon selling those books. You know, if you, if you're an agent and you love a book but you can't sell it, you don't get paid. So. And if you're an editor and you love books but you're not thinking at all about how they're going to perform in the market, eventually you're going to lose your job because you have to be bringing in books that are going to sell enough copies to justify the expense.

[C]

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[B]

Nine years of bring back the snack wrap and you've won. But maybe you should have asked for more. Say hello to the Hot Honey snack Wrap. Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can. I know this from my agents. Yeah, yeah, don't send me any More Bubba and Zeta books. That's it. Tax. All of them get a.

[A]

Like every. Well, because everybody and Zadie wants to write a book about themselves. There you go.

[B]

There you go.

[A]

They want to be the stars. Of course they do. And we all want to be the star of a book. Every story, whatever story is happening, I want to be the star of it. I'm not unique in this, so. Right. So the. You know, and it's. It. I think this sort of goes along with one of my broader philosophies, which is that I. I believe that everybody is a writer, can be a writer, arguably should be a writer, that there's inherent value in writing. I do not believe that everybody is. Should be, can be a published writer. I think those are two very different things. And I do think when you're, you know, when you're drafting, you think about just being in the story, but when you're working towards publication, that's going back through it with the idea of what does. What does the reader want? Who is my reader? Where is this Sit in the market? You know, what are my comp titles, the business y. Stuff that. That I have to think about in order to acquire a book.

[B]

So when I'm writing, right. This is. How do you say in English, Anathema.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For me to think about who wants my book, who's going to buy my book. I just write the bloody book. Yeah.

[A]

Great. Yes.

[B]

And most of my books are not ever going to be sold, and that's perfectly fine. But I mean, if I start writing because people. Books about Kaizen or in fashion or dinosaurs or race mobiles, it's not going to be good book. So now I, We. We kind of understand that what is, you know, the. The biggest benefactor or philanthrop. Philanthropism of Jewish books in America is. Is the PGA library.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And Car. Ben and you know, and Kalaniot and the other Jewish publishers, they kind of depend on. On PJ to pick, let's say one book out of three, one book out of five. It's a statistical thing. Right. But then you have like tens of thousands of books and the book becomes all of a sudden profitable. How much does that influence, like, are you looking at this Hanukkah submission and say, oh, you know, PJ might take that one?

[A]

Yes, I am. And it's. It's really interesting to me. You know, my background is not in Jewish publishing, and I. When I was at Penguin, I published some Jewish books, but was not thinking very hard about pj. You know, My. You have to do a P and L. A profit and loss statement for every book before you sign it up in order to make sure that you believe you can make a case that it will be profitable to your publisher and your finance team and so on and so forth. And when I did Jewish books at Penguin, there was no it. It didn't depend upon PJ Library taking them. Right. The idea was always, oh, we can, you know, we'll sell enough copies through all of the ordinary channels. And if we get a special order, which is what PJ is, it's, you know, it's a big bulk order. That's a great bonus. And at Carbon, because the, the trade sales. So that is the bookstore sales and school and library sales are generally smaller whether or not you get a special sale, which is to say PJ Library becomes a much bigger deal. And that makes sense. Right. So because I can do books at Carbon about topics that are not going to have as massive an audience as Hanukkah or Passover, I'm editing a book right now about the counting of the Omer. Right. At Penguin, they're not going to publish a book about the counting of the Omer because that is too niche an audience. And at Carbon, we can do that. And that is great. But knowing that, knowing that it's going to have a fairly niche audience, it makes a potential PJ Library sale so much more important to the profitability of the imprint as a whole. Um, and, you know, and it's. And it's my understanding that we do need. We don't need every one of our books to be taken by PGA Library, and we don't have any control over what they take.

[B]

That's what I said. I mean, like, if they take one out of four.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you want the four to. To be pj potential PJ material.

[A]

You want them to have a chance. And, you know, and so that does affect how I think about, you know, because there are certain things that PJ is and isn't looking for. And again, I don't. I can't claim to be fluent into exactly what it is, Lila.

[B]

Between you, between you and me, it impinges on your ability to select really good stories that PJ might not take. This is one of the trade offs.

[A]

Yes. I think if I'm going to be a quote.

[B]

So somebody would make the argument.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

That it's not Carbon or Kalanio that decide which Jewish books are going to get published. It's really. It's really pj. I'm just throwing that out there.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. And I don't, you know, I, I do think about, I do think about what they are going to want when I am selecting books. That is part of, that is part of my process. I don't know that it's that different from any, you know, when you, whenever you are editing books, you are giving thought to what the market for them is going to be. So the number of times that I have worked on a book and we have a cover or a title that's done, and then Barnes and Noble says we don't like the COVID and if you changed the COVID we would take 5,000 copies. And if you don't change the COVID we'll take zero copies. And then you know what? The vast majority of the time we go back and we change the COVID and there, you know, there's some like, obviously that is a place where the retailer, the buyer is directing the artistic output that the publisher is making.

[B]

For me, it's a little bit of an O thing because if we go back to class and talk about I want my hat back. So imagine. Oh. What we really need now for our fall 2027 is a story about a bear who wants his hat back and eats a rabbit. If that was Candlewick's mission. Well, anyway, you get my point. I mean, I want to hope that some books, some children's books get published because they're really good books. And I just said at the beginning, because the story, story arc is splendid and because they hit the ground running and there's twists and there's humor and there's irony. This is my dream. And this comes a little bit because I just write. Okay. And I hope that some Michigan publisher is going to take one of my stories. But you have the completely different job of saying, okay, I'll take whatever fantastic story but it's left to sell it. You don't have to sell it to people. And that. Yeah. So that brings me to my, my next question. Yeah, of course. Which is. But you're also an author and you're a celebrated, award winning author.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

Of eight books. Not. Not so much picture books. You.

[A]

You now to publish a picture book. You're right. You know what? Writing picture books is really hard. I don't know if, I don't know if anybody's aware of that, but writing.

[B]

And everybody who's listened to me over the past five years don't.

[A]

Yeah. I can't tell you how many picture books I've started where I have a fun concept and am. I can't get to the end in a way that doesn't feel, you know, preachy, contrived, talking down to kids, you know, doesn't, doesn't have a full plot arc. Um, you know, whatever it is, it's, yeah, it's, it's very impressive people I've worked with, obviously tons and tons of picture book authors. And I feel like I'm pretty good at editing a picture book. I'm pretty good at, you know, paginating it. Figure, you know, deciding if the art in it is good or what the art needs to be. But maybe someday I'll publish one. I, I, but yeah, it's hard. I do have a chapter book coming out next year with Nosy Crow, and that is, that's going to be the youngest thing that I've ever published. So it's still definitely not. I mean, there will be pictures, but, you know, it's, it's solidly for 6, 7, 8 year olds. But my hope is to someday have books for every age group so I could go into, you know, because sometimes I'll, sometimes a school will reach out to me about doing a school visit. And, you know, if it's an elementary school and they really want, bring in one author who can talk to all of their students. And I'll be like, well, realistically, anyone younger than your third grade is not going to be interested in anything that I've published. And so then I'm not a good candidate for that school.

[B]

Okay, well, you know, I have a book coming out in two weeks and thank you. And you're welcome to talk about it all you like. You can tell people you wrote it. What do I care about what's the book?

[A]

Tell me.

[B]

No, no, no. The book. No, I don't get Emily Saw Adore publishing with Penguin Random House. Which explains my interest in your hand.

[A]

It's imprint. Which imprint at Pure H. Sorry, am.

[B]

I Annie Kelly Random House Studio.

[A]

Great. Perfect.

[B]

And it's not a book about Hanukkah.

[A]

We are. There are allowed to be books.

[B]

Not if you, if you want to talk about my book, I'm going to. So we'll send you a waiver. And yeah, so this is about you, Len, so. But I am intrigued. We will send everybody home at the end of our interview and then we'll have a little tete a tete. Because it's like you said, Mel says that anybody can write picture books. Not everybody can publish picture books. Yes, but I'll tell you right now, now I have it, if you want to know did you want to know?

[A]

Okay, I want to know. Yeah.

[B]

Okay, so you write basically middle grade and early adult and the young adult. And so, and that's wonderful, but for me that means that your inner voice, your Little Lila is 10, 12, 14. Yeah.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And maybe something happened in your life when you were 10, 12 or 14 that you are addressing when you write to your inner Lila.

[A]

Absolutely.

[B]

Okay, so the, the answer is if you have a five year old Lila, then you can write picture books. And if you don't, you, you, you have to find it. Yeah, yeah, I'd agree with that. I'd agree. I, I, I only have a 5 year old inside me, so makes it, makes it easy for me.

[A]

We, we actually all have inside of us every version of ourselves who we have ever been or ever will be. Right. It's just a question of if you can tap into that version of yourself, which version of yourself you like to listen to.

[B]

Okay, but I, I think this is just me, right. I think that you have to recognize the age at which you were stuck. The, the, the age at which, like, I don't write for kids. I, I write for me. Yeah, there's a little, little Melvin from Ottawa, Canada, who, who, who is hurt. And I address this hurt. So I think the answer is if there's a five year old Lila that's hurt, you'll have no trouble writing picture books. And if not, you'll have to find the hurt of the five year old. That's anyway. What I believe you've written at least eight books that I have counted and one, Lots of pride. So there's two questions. I guess the first question is, if I were in your position, I would not have taken the job with carbon. I'd just be writing my, I'd be writing my Kishka salt all day.

[A]

Yeah. That is not me and has never been me. I am, I'm not, I'm not efficient is what I'm not. So I need to limit the time to, that is available to me for writing or I will, you know, I'll get the same amount of, same amount of writing done. If I say, okay, you only have two hours to write today, as I will. If I say, like, all right, you have the whole day stretching out before you write. You have no responsibilities other than to write. That is, that's not how I, how I get stuff done. And you know, I've always written and edited. There's never been a part of my career where I have been only a writer. I don't honestly know that I would be that well suited to it. I mean, I do have, you know, I have so many ideas for books and I have far more ideas for books than I have time and bandwidth to actually get them down. And I do really, I envy the productivity of full time writers, you know, the people who have a new book out every year or multiple books a year. I am, I am, you know, overcome with envy, you know, of like, how do they do it? And then I'm like, well, because that's, that's, that's what they do. That is the whole thing that they do. And. But I just, I don't know, I don't believe that if all I did was right that I'd be all that productive.

[B]

Yeah, but it is a kind of a look, you know, I wanted to be a writer since I was 20. I'm 74. I did everything in my life except what was important. And 10 years ago I had this wake up call. And so it is a little bit of a cop out. I mean, if you are such a great writer, which you are, and everything you've told me is a little bit, you know, I wouldn't say suspicious, but you know, if, you know, I can envision a Lila that would structure her day maybe and be a full time, full time writer who, who represents you?

[A]

I'm with Steven Barbara at Inkwell.

[B]

Okay, sorry I cut you off.

[A]

Listen, here's the thing again. Don't know if anybody knows this writing is hard. So. And I'm not saying that editing is easy. It's not. But I, I don't go into editing with the sort of existential self doubt that often surrounds writing. You know, with writing, sometimes you feel like this is a problem that I'm not able to solve. Right. You get, you get writer's block. I'm not, I'm not up for the task. And I don't feel that with editing. You know, sometimes I feel with editing, like, oh, it's, you know, it's challenging or sometimes it's boring or, you know, sometimes it's overwhelming the sheer amount of work, whatever it is there. But, but I never lose my faith of like, oh, I'm capable of doing this and writing. I know I've, you know, I've written a bunch of books and I have faith that I'll continue to write more books, God willing. But yeah, but it's hard and I like having something in my life where I also make a living and that feels a little more approachable. I think if every day all I had in front of me was something that felt really hard.

[B]

Yeah. Okay. Well, I mean, at least you feel for us. For us authors.

[A]

I feel so much for authors.

[B]

Most editors don't. Are not authors.

[A]

That's true.

[B]

Annie Kelly doesn't write. Harold. Under. Under. Under Dunder. Right. Most of the editors that I know and have interviewed are not authors.

[A]

I feel a lot for authors. And then it also, I think, you know, it makes me. It's. Ironically, I'm so much slower in responding to submissions. You'd think I'd be faster because I know how terrible it is to be out on submission and how annoying it is when you don't hear for months. But in fact, it makes me slower because it's like I really, you know, I think about the author behind every book and I know how hard they worked and I want to give them feedback that's going to be, you know, useful to them and. Yeah.

[B]

So now is a good time to talk about your recent book. Yes, the museum book. And I'm interested in trying to write a picture book about the museum story. So tell us all about it.

[A]

The Museum of Plaskin found. Yeah, this came out with Abrams, and it was my second book with Maggie Lerman there and my third middle grade book. So this book is about a girl named Vanessa who she. Her best friend has recently stopped being her best friend and she doesn't know why. And she discovers an abandoned museum in her town, and she starts filling the museum with artifacts of her friendship with Bailey and categorizing them and organizing them and displaying them. And then along the way, she is joined by a ragtag group of other kids in her neighborhood who each are bringing their own memories or projects to display in this museum. So they do it.

[B]

It's incredible. Do you know where the idea came from?

[A]

Yeah, let's see. Well, I. Yes. So I published a book a few years back called the Campaign, which is about a kid who runs her babysitter's babysitter's campaign to become mayor of their city. And so is looking at trying to give kids some sort of civics education because I felt like maybe a lot of kids don't. Aren't actually getting any understanding of how government is supposed to work or, you know, how what our elected officials role is. Anyway, so I wrote the Campaign and. And I. I have always really liked books like that where kids are doing things that you expect only adults get to do. Right. So a kid is running a political campaign or a kid is principal or president, or a kid is a Lawyer or an investigator or a spy. I love that. And so then I was talking to my very dear friend Kendra, who is. She's editorial director at Simon and Schuster Books for Young Readers and is also one of my best friends. And so I was like, I want to find something else like that. Like, what is another thing that kids could do that you think kids wouldn't do? And. And she was like, well, it has to be something that you care about and, you know, want. Like a place where you would want to spend time. And we were getting ice cream, which is one of our favorite foods. And she was like, how about an ice cream factory? How about you have a story about kids who you would like. They discover an abandoned rundown ice cream factory in their town, and they start running it. And you wouldn't expect kids to run an ice cream factory. And for whatever reason, I was like, logistically, that seems hard. Like, the machinery, I can't wrap my head around it. But something about the idea of an abandoned, rundown ice cream factory. I was like, okay, but what if instead it was an abandoned rundown museum, which is also a thing that I like. So that's how I came up with the Museum of Lost and Found. And, yeah, I think there's a. I think I have a note in the acknowledgments that. That says something like, you know, Kendra, here's your abandoned ice cream factory book at long last. Or something like that.

[B]

At the end of the story, does she renew her friendship with the sort of.

[A]

I think this is going back to what I was saying earlier about how in a book, we started with a character who wants something. In this case, she wants her friend back. And then the motor driving the book is the character going out in pursuit of that thing. Right? So she's doing all these things to try and win her friend back and to try and understand what went wrong. And then at the end of the book, as I said earlier, either they get the thing that they were driving towards, or they don't get the thing, but they get something else that they have discovered along the way. And I would say this one is more. She gets something else that she's discovered along the way. And I think she. She gets some clarity as to what happened between her and her friend. And they, you know, they mend fences somewhat, but also there's the understanding of it's not going to go back to the way that it was, which she. You know, what she starts out really wanting is like, I just want to erase whatever it is that happened. And I just want to go back to the way things were and. Yeah.

[B]

And this very esteemed publisher published it even though they weren't interested in books about kids creating museums.

[A]

I don't know that they weren't interested in book smell kids cream. They never expressed anything to me about it.

[B]

It wasn't on their wish list. No.

[A]

No, I don't think they were looking.

[B]

I really think that I'm going to ask you now, in summary, this wonderful discussion. I hope you had a good time.

[A]

To talking about my work, so I'll do it every time.

[B]

I love talking to you about the children's books. Um, so. So the, The. I think that my, you know, my best advice is always going to be write things that you. You care about intensely. And then if you're very lucky, because you have to be very lucky in this, somebody who may not have been interested in the book about kids building their own museums or ice cream factories will say, oh, my goodness, what a story arc. Wow. So what is your. We have now thousands of potential authors dying to send Carbon children's manuscripts.

[A]

I hope they will.

[B]

Yeah. A couple of.

[A]

Couple of tips for manuscripts to send to me.

[B]

Yeah, either. Either a subject or the. Or the process or anything you want.

[A]

Yeah. Well, I. Like I said, I'm slow at responding to submissions, and I want to get better. It's only because I'm doing too many things. But I all, you know, I. I want good submissions. I'm always looking for good submissions. And one of the great things about Carbon is that I. I don't. I don't need submissions to be agented, which I did at prh, so I can get submissions from, you know, from anybody who has a good story. And, you know, I. I guess the tip I always give aspiring writers is, you know, be professional, which you'd sort of think would go without saying, but. But I think for many people, you know, writing is so much of their. It's such a dream. Having a published book is just. Is such a dream. And this feeling I remember before I had a published book, it's like I would do anything to sell a book. You know, like, they don't even need to pay me. I would pay them. Right. And. And, you know, sort of the. The understanding of, like, this whole thing is a business. Again, not the writing part. The writing part is a passion. It's an art. It's a. It's a creative outlet. But the publishing thing, as soon as you start submitting your work to a publisher, it's a business. And so you're, you know, you're writing business correspondence, and you're writing business correspondence. That's something that's very near and dear to you. But, you know, but you kind of. You kind of have to treat it as. Here's a. You know, it's. It's sort of like a job application.

[B]

It is kind of dichotomous, isn't it? I mean, yeah. On the. On the one hand, write your kishkas out, ignore the market, ignore all external influences, ignore PGA library, ignore booksellers and what have you. And on the other hand, write something that the market wants.

[A]

Right. And that's where you really, I mean, you literally, I think, have to switch hats. You know, it's. It's. You start with one and then you move to the other, and you. But you don't want the other. You don't want that business perspective getting in there too soon, I don't think, because then it just like, shuts down the creative process. Um, but, you know, yeah, understanding that I am a human and. And also I am, you know, I am doing a job here. And so when I, you know, when I have to pass on a manuscript, there's never, like, some sort of personal vendetta there. You know, it's just. It's just kind of a business decision, and that can be hard to accept. Trying to think what else, you know, in terms of. In terms of topics. As I said, I like fun, I like whimsy, I like joy, I like characters with a lot of, you know, attitude. Who are we? The holidays are always good for us, the big holidays. You know, we try and do a new Hanukkah book every year, a new Passover book every year, a new high holidays book every year. So those are always opportunities, though it's also challenging to find new takes on these holidays where we've done so many. So when you can find a new take on it, it's like, that's so great. That's so exciting. I like a good picture book biography. If there's a real story there and. And, you know, if it's about somebody who we don't. We haven't already heard about them a zillion times. Right. Like, at this point, it's pretty hard to do another Ruth Bader Ginsburg picture book biography. It's been done very well, you know, but there are so many people out there where they have interesting stories and we don't know about them. I love learning about the experiences of Jews all over the world and, you know, Jewish identity in ways that's very different from what I have experienced and sort of getting to show kids about the, you know, just the breadth of ways that there are to be Jewish in this world. I just finished up editing a graphic novel about the Jews of Iraq. I hadn't known anything about the Jewish community that had been in Iraq that was really interesting. So. Yeah, and not that it needs to be all over the world, you know, even within the United States, just all of the different ways that there are to be Jewish and. Yeah. And I think, you know, that it doesn't, it doesn't have to be super, you know, religious or observant or, you know, it doesn't, it doesn't need to feel like, like Hebrew school, you know, just. Just tell a good story that kids are going to be interested in. That's sort of. That feels like a good goal to me.

[B]

That's wonderful. So I should add that, you know, if you Google Lila Sales, you will find your wish list and you're open to submissions from agented and unagented authors on a wide variety of Jewish themes. And I think that that is fantastic. So I wish you lots of Mazal, lots of luck in your new job.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And, and also as an author, when you find the time, and we're going to send everybody else home and we're going to talk for another two minutes.

[A]

All right.

[B]

Come back and go back and come in so I can thank you personally and this was wonderful. So again, I'm the same Mel Rosenberg, the host of the Children's Literature Channel. And I've been speaking to the one and only Lila Thales, who is also an award winning author of eight wonderful children's books and also, also, also the new head honcho of car. Ben, it's been wonderful. Thanks so much. L.