Podcast Episode Summary

Podcast: New Books Network
Episode: Liberation & the Literature of the Women’s Movement
Guests: Bess Wohl & Honor Moore
Date: December 23, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode features a dynamic conversation between playwright Bess Wohl and poet/memoirist Honor Moore, focusing on Bess Wohl’s acclaimed Broadway play Liberation. The conversation dives deep into the literary, historical, personal, and theatrical dimensions of depicting women’s liberation in the 1970s—through the lens of both a daughter’s search to understand her mother and the legacy of feminist activism. The discussion also explores how women’s stories, activism, and humor are powerfully brought to life on stage, and how the play resonates across generations.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origins and Structure of Liberation

• Personal and Political Inspiration

  • Bess Wohl drew on her childhood memories of her mother working at Ms. Magazine (06:38) and wanted to add her own voice to second-wave feminism’s stories.
  • Several drafts were tried, but the breakthrough came when Bess centered the play on a woman’s quest to understand her mother, framing the narrative in shifting timelines.

• Consciousness Raising as Theatrical Device

  • The play transforms the audience into a metaphorical consciousness raising group, paralleling the tradition of 1970s feminist gatherings:

    “The experience of going to the theater is hopefully an experience of consciousness raising...” – Bess Wohl (05:09)

• Blending Theatrical Forms

  • Honor Moore praises the play for blending “gangs of women” ensemble plays, individual narration, and mother-daughter dramas:

    “Your play combines all three. Which is extraordinary.” – Honor Moore (09:02)

2. The Creative Process: Character & Improvisation

• Casting and Collaboration

  • The narrator, based partially on Wohl herself, was the hardest character to unlock due to her personal proximity. The role evolved further with actor Susannah Flood's contributions once previews began (10:26).
  • Other characters emerged through deep research and interviews with women from the era.

• Imagination Balanced with Historical Research

  • Wohl describes a “combination of imagination and research,” building fictional characters from historical sources (10:36).

3. Thematic Highlights: Body, Memory, Humor, and Risk

• Physicality and Feminism

  • A pivotal “naked scene” was inspired by real accounts of consciousness-raising groups meeting in the nude. Wohl aimed to depict women’s bodies in a non-objectified, truthful way (14:09):

    “I was interested in putting women’s bodies on stage in a way that wasn’t sexualized, objectified... I wanted them to retain their subjectivity while naked on stage.” – Bess Wohl (14:09)

• Mother-Daughter Dynamics and Legacy

  • The play culminates with a poignant confrontation between the daughter and her mother’s ghost, directly addressing questions of regret, autonomy, and intergenerational understanding:

    “What you think your mother wanted might not be what she wanted… what if you could ask your mom, did she regret these choices?” – Bess Wohl (20:54)

• Humor & Feminist Community

  • Humor is a guiding principle from inception:

    “A sense of fun and chemistry… can actually power activism.” – Bess Wohl (26:28)

  • Characters’ jokes and “laughs of recognition” are vital, challenging the cliché that feminist activism is joyless.

4. Political & Social Resonance

• Theater as Political Space

  • Wohl didn’t want to preach (“audiences retreat when you start to tell them what to think”), but hopes to rekindle hope and inspire action (28:57).
  • The play functions as both a personal and political awakening, with multiple audience members reporting the urge to reconnect with their own mothers after watching.

• Men and Multigenerational Audiences

  • Notably, men in the audience responded enthusiastically, suggesting broad resonance (30:49).
  • The surprise male character (the father) disrupts the women’s group, highlighting themes of autonomy, love, and societal design (31:49).

5. Representation, Race, and Collaboration

• Complex Feminist Perspectives

  • Two Black women feature prominently: Celeste (based on real-life feminist Celestine Ware) and Joanne, who is ambivalent/rival to the group (48:38).
  • The diversity of the creative team led to nuanced character portrayals and authentic explorations of feminist intersectionality.

• Collaborative Authorship

  • Wohl credits actors, director Whitney White, and designers for shaping the play’s authenticity, especially for characters outside her lived experience (51:10).

6. Change, Future Impact, and Universal Takeaways

• Balancing Comedy, Emotion, and History

  • Maintaining comedic and emotional balance was a continual process, with director and actors calibrating humor and seriousness (43:55).
  • Wohl consciously allowed for historical “impressions” rather than a strict documentary approach, liberating her as a playwright.

• Legacy and Inspiration for Young People

  • Wohl hopes audiences, especially young people, take away a renewed belief in the power of collective action:

    “That regular people can change the world and that gathering in community is meaningful and powerful.” – Bess Wohl (53:41)

  • Moore echoes this, emphasizing that feminism isn’t “just an opinion,” but a living conversation (54:10).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Theater as Consciousness Raising (05:09)

  “The experience of going to the theater is hopefully an experience of consciousness raising... that was the intention of consciousness raising groups. There’s this sort of meta thing happening where the theater itself becomes a group.” – Bess Wohl

• On Humor’s Importance in Activism (26:28)

  “A sense of fun and chemistry, like deep fun, can actually power activism… if it’s not fun, you stop showing up and then nothing gets done.” – Bess Wohl

• On Risk and Structure (18:12)

  “Doing a play with seven women in it… All of those things felt complicated and risky.” – Bess Wohl

• On the Mother-Daughter Conversation (20:54)

  “What you think that your mother wanted might not be what she wanted… So to me, the root of that fantasy is—what if you could ask your mom, did she regret these choices? Would she have done it differently?” – Bess Wohl

• On Intersectionality and Collaboration (51:10)

  “Our artistic team was a consciousness raising group. Our actors were a consciousness raising group. We all spoke up and we all contributed, and everyone’s voice was really important.” – Bess Wohl

• On Hope for the Future (53:41)

  “That regular people can change the world and that gathering in community is meaningful and powerful.” – Bess Wohl

Timestamps of Important Segments

• 00:00–03:33 — Introduction by Max Rudin; Guests introduced
• 05:09 — Creating a consciousness raising group through theater
• 06:38 — Personal origin: Bess Wohl’s mother at Ms. Magazine
• 10:26 — The challenge of writing the narrator/finding character voice
• 14:09 — The “naked scene” and representations of women’s bodies
• 18:12 — Risks in playwriting and experimental structure
• 20:54 — Mother-daughter scene: legacy, regret, and understanding
• 26:28 — Humor as engine for activism and performance
• 28:57 — Theater’s political impact and personal awakenings in audiences
• 31:49 — The disruptive male character and commentary on gendered spaces
• 37:14 — The work/parenting split for women, both historically and now
• 43:55 — Balancing comedy, emotion, and historical faithfulness
• 48:38 — Writing Black feminist characters and collaborative storytelling
• 53:41 — Takeaway for young people: collective action and hope

Conclusion

This episode is a fascinating exploration of how theater can serve as both an archive and an engine of feminist history—inviting laughter, tears, and intergenerational dialogue. Wohl and Moore’s conversation delves into personal and collective struggles, persistent questions of autonomy and legacy, and the enduring need for community and activism. Liberation is portrayed not only as a critically acclaimed play, but as a crucial bridge connecting stories of the past with the feminist futures still being written.