Podcast Summary

Podcast: New Books Network

Episode: LiLi Johnson, "Technologies of Kinship: Asian American Racialization and the Making of Family" (NYU Press, 2025)

Host: Eileen Zhou

Guest: LiLi Johnson

Date: January 28, 2026

Overview of the Episode

In this episode, Eileen Zhou interviews Professor LiLi Johnson about her new book, Technologies of Kinship: Asian American Racialization and the Making of Family. Johnson's book contends that race and family are not static or exclusively biological, but instead are actively produced through technological and bureaucratic systems. Through a focus on Asian American histories, she explores how systems like immigration policy, paperwork, photography, online platforms, and genetic testing have shaped families and modes of belonging over time. The conversation covers the book’s interdisciplinary method, archival research, conceptual framework, and detailed case studies. The discussion also addresses broader implications for kinship and racial formation, both within and beyond Asian American communities.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Author Introduction and Project Origins

• LiLi Johnson’s Background (02:39): Assistant Professor at Dalhousie University; previous appointments and education at UW Madison and Yale.
• Project Motivation (03:20): Began as a dissertation; rooted in intersections of Asian American studies, science and technology studies (STS), and feminist STS.
• Interdisciplinary Approach (05:25): Values the freedom and challenge in drawing on multiple disciplines and methodologies to address complex questions about family, technology, and racialization.

2. Navigating Interdisciplinarity

• Johnson describes the “messy but exciting” process of weaving together historical, ethnographic, textual, and media analysis (05:25–07:09).
  • "One thing I really like about interdisciplinary work is that you get to ask your questions first, and then you can figure out how to answer them." (05:37)

3. Using Archives in Research

• Johnson emphasizes the embodied, affective aspect of archival research, connecting with the tactile experience of handling historical documents (09:55).
  • "Going to an archive is an experience in itself...I was thinking from a new materialist perspective...what is our encounter with the things that we encounter while doing research?" (10:38)

4. Book Cover Selection

• Johnson personally contributed the evocative, abstract cover art, seeking to avoid literal family imagery and instead prompt interpretation (13:13–15:08).
  • "I really liked that sort of more abstract, vibes-based cover image...It's more of an invitation." (14:07)

5. Core Concepts: Asianness, Family, Technology

• Techno-Orientalism (15:43): Johnson explores the paradox of Asianness as both “technological” and “natural/biological” and critiques stereotypes tied to technology.
  • "Techno-Orientalism is very relevant...it captures this association of Asianness...with technology, futurism, the robot, the cyborg." (16:25)
• Model Minority Myth: Re-framed as another technological construct, not a natural outcome.

6. Technologies of Kinship – Key Framework

• Expands technology beyond reproductive tech to include paperwork, digital media, photography, etc. (20:02).
• Draws from Foucault’s “technologies of power” to show how kinship is a locus of power, not inherently private/apolitical.
  • "A big part of the project is highlighting the nuances of power as it acts on families." (23:23)
• The framework isn’t universalizing: other scholars can apply “technologies of kinship” to diverse contexts (27:06).

Deep Dive: Key Chapters & Case Studies

Chapter 1: Paper Families

Key Segment: 29:14–33:50

• Focuses on the Chinese Exclusion era (1882–mid-20th century) when “paper families”—false documentation of familial ties—were used to circumvent restrictive laws.
  • "If we temperature this impulse to say, what's real and what's false, what we start to see is all these families are on paper...they're validated and created through these documents." (31:58)
• Paper, bureaucracy, and the production of kinship: challenges notions of “real family” vs. “false family.”
• Emphasizes the transnational circuits and affective labor involved (34:31–36:16).
• Notable quote:
  • "Trying to interpret the intimacy or affective connections that are coming through...offers us a different way to think about how power and resistance function." (36:34)

Chapter 2: The Model Minority and Post-1965 Immigration Policy

Key Segment: 38:00–43:22

• Examines how family reunification policies and Cold War geopolitics facilitated the image of the upwardly mobile, heteronormative Asian American family.
• Shows immigration policies are the “technology” underlying the emergence of the model minority myth.
  • "The model minority...comes to define Asianness...immigration policy was prioritizing families coming, prioritizing the heteronormative, biologically reproductive family." (39:44)
• Addresses intra-Asian divisions and how policy creates monolithic images despite diverse realities.

Chapter 3: Transnational Adoption and Referral Photography

Key Segment: 43:50–50:04

• Focuses on transnational adoption—especially Korean and Chinese children—and the pivotal role of photography (e.g., referral photos).
• Explores how photography racializes and commodifies children, makes them “available” for adoption, and produces new family formations.
  • "Photography is a part of that process, of making them available, making them seen as a child that's available for adoption and then becoming individuated..." (48:24)
• Gendered dynamics evident in Korean/Chinese adoption patterns.

Chapter 4: Online Profiles and Digital Platforms

Key Segment: 50:04–55:05

• Examines dating platforms and egg/sperm donation sites as digital technologies of kinship.
• Critiques how these platforms use “menu-driven identities” (Lisa Nakamura) to reify neoliberal racial ordering while also affording new agency.
  • "The online interface itself [is] the technology of kinship...outlining a particular kind of racial logic." (51:31)
• Balances critique with nuance about individual agency.
  • "Are we ever free to choose?...We're all functioning under neoliberalism, making do in the society that we live in." (54:12)

Chapter 5: Genetic Testing and ‘Genetic Intimacy’

Key Segment: 55:05–61:47

• Explores direct-to-consumer genetic testing (23andMe, etc.) and the popular pursuit of ancestry.
• Johnson argues that these tests are often used as neutral or depoliticized answers to fraught questions of race and family—yet ultimately reinforce racial thinking and biological essentialism.
  • "People are really scared to talk about race...having the percentage breakdown feels like a safe way to answer those questions." (56:59)
• Introduces concept of “genetic intimacy”—acknowledges the real affective bonds created through new relations discovered via genetic testing, while maintaining a critical stance.
  • "I want to critique the structures...but I don't want to discount people's positive or meaningful experiences with these technologies either." (60:52)

Additional Highlights

Applying the Framework Beyond Asian American Studies (24:03–29:14; 27:06)

• Johnson hopes “technologies of kinship” can prompt critical investigation into power, race, and kin formation in other communities—not only Asians or Asian Americans.

Advice for Early-Career, Interdisciplinary Scholars (62:36–65:39)

• "Be open to everything, but only take what you need...You can't please everyone." (62:41, 64:34)
• Advice to embrace what is useful across disciplines, release perfectionism, and prioritize one’s own research vision.

Future Directions (67:18)

• Johnson is conducting new research on transracial adoption, particularly engaging with Canadian contexts, Indigeneity, and settler colonialism.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Interdisciplinarity:
  • "Some of my best ideas and my best, most exciting kind of moments in the process were discovered sort of by accident or from unexpected places." (63:04)
• On Archival Research:
  • "I really was thinking about [archival visits] as a kind of encounter...what are people experiencing, as they are experiencing the ideas or structures that you’re writing about." (10:38)
• On the Limitations and Possibility of Agency:
  • "Are we ever free, you know, to choose? Is an ongoing question...I don’t know that we can ever really be free from it." (54:09)
• On Letting Go of Perfection:
  • "Done is better than perfect...You just got to do each stage, and sometimes you have to write a bad draft before you get a good draft later." (66:13)
• On Book as Kin:
  • "A lot of academics would say your project, your book is like your baby, but that's also like a trope of kinship making..." (65:39)
• On the Book Cover:
  • "I just think I agree with you. It’s such a beautiful image, but then also pulls on all these different threads that feel connected to the project without saying this is what it is..." (14:19)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:31 – LiLi Johnson’s introduction and academic journey
• 09:17 – Discussing the affective/material aspects of archival research
• 15:43 – Introducing the concept of techno-Orientalism and links among Asianness, technology, and family
• 20:02 – Defining “technologies of kinship” and the influence of Foucault
• 29:14 – Explaining “paper families” during Chinese Exclusion era
• 38:00 – Immigration policy and the rise of the model minority
• 43:50 – On transnational adoption and referral photography
• 50:04 – Online platforms as technologies of kinship
• 55:05 – Genetic testing, personal agency, and genetic intimacy
• 62:36 – Advice to interdisciplinary graduate students or early-career scholars
• 67:18 – Johnson’s current and future research directions

Conclusion

This rich and thought-provoking interview foregrounds how Asian American “family” and “race” have always been produced and altered by institutional, technological, and cultural forces—from paperwork to digital platforms. Johnson urges listeners and scholars alike to remain attuned to the nuanced, lived experiences behind systems of power, while also reimagining the boundaries of kinship and belonging.

This summary was created to provide a comprehensive and engaging overview of the episode, capturing discussion highlights, major insights, and the voices of those involved. Readers can use the provided timestamps to locate specific content of interest in the episode’s audio.