Podcast Summary:

New Books Network – Interview with Lisa Björkman, Author of Drama of Democracy: Political Representation in Mumbai
Host: Raghavi Vishwanath
Guest: Lisa Björkman (Associate Professor, University of Louisville)
Date: February 17, 2026

Episode Overview

In this episode, Lisa Björkman discusses her new book Drama of Democracy: Political Representation in Mumbai with host Raghavi Vishwanath. Drawing on over a decade of fieldwork, Björkman explores the material, performative, and affective dimensions of democratic politics in Mumbai. The conversation traverses topics such as the role of crowds, the semiotics of political action, money as a performative device, the theatricality of violence, the politics of protest, and the sensory registers of political representation, emphasizing how Mumbai offers globally relevant concepts for rethinking democracy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Politics of Form: The Crowd as Political Actor

• Timestamp: 01:03–09:29
• Lisa describes her initial realization that Mumbai’s “crowd politics” is not a sign of ‘broken’ democracy but an integral, internal feature of political representation.
• She challenges Euro-American political theory’s division between rational, discursive democracy and the “irrational” crowd or spectacle.
• Quote [05:37]:
  “...in Mumbai, political actors across the spectrum, from leftist parties to right-wing authoritarian Hindu nationalists, everyone is communicating in a kind of theatrical, performance, affective way... speaking in this kind of performance register.” – Lisa Björkman
• The crowd in Mumbai is seen as participating in shows (naṭak), serving as legitimation to institutions and not antagonistic to them.
• Quote [07:01]:
  “If everyone is in agreement that the crowd gathering is a variety of shows, then rather than say, oh, why is liberalism broken? We have to ask, well, what is being shown and to whom?” – Lisa Björkman

2. The Western Theory of Representation and Alternate Genealogies

• Timestamp: 09:29–15:31
• The “absence” model of political representation is traced to Western transitions from monarchic to popular sovereignty.
• Björkman highlights historian Lisa Mitchell’s work showing “embodiment” as a long-standing idiom in South Asian political communication.
• Quote [13:08]:
  “We need not think about...a genealogy of political representation and communication that doesn't start with 18th century France...that in fact...helps us...take quite seriously what's going on as a modality of representation in its own right.” – Lisa Björkman

3. Money, Materiality, and the Performance of Political Authority

• Timestamp: 15:31–29:48
• The book’s ethnography of local elections uncovers how cash-giving is less about purchasing votes and more about performing capacity, building relations, and displaying authority.
• Cash circulates within networks, demonstrating a politician’s ability to mobilize resources—sometimes even without tangible cash, as during demonetization.
• Quote [19:22]:
  “So how does one produce a spectacle of cash without the cash? ...the point isn’t the cash. The point is the spectacle...what is being shown.” – Lisa Björkman
• Money serves both as a relational gift and as spectacle, morally evaluated by involved publics.

4. The Theater of Political Violence and Legitimation

• Timestamp: 29:48–40:48
• The book and interview interrogate violence as another register of political performance, especially during moments like the 1992-93 Mumbai riots.
• Violence is often staged to demonstrate impunity and “command of the apparatus of the state,” but its legitimacy and reception evolve over time.
• Quote [33:34]:
  “...not that they were fake, but that they were a performance and an enactment of political authority and of the ability to commit acts of violence with impunity.” – Lisa Björkman
• In contrast, more recent decades in Mumbai show a diminished legitimacy for violence as performative narrative.

5. Cinema, Publics, and the Image

• Timestamp: 40:48–49:47
• The circulation of political violence in film points to the co-constitution of cinematic and real-world political imagery.
• The term “public” (derived from English) is used for both theater audiences and political crowds, collapsing the divide between rational public sphere and embodied crowd.
• Quote [43:24]:
  “The size of the public will be the size of the image.” – Mumbai resident, cited by Björkman
• Images and imaginaries (cinematic and lived) recursively produce each other, shaping expectations, performances, and legitimacy.

6. The CAA Protests: New Registers of Democratic Contestation

• Timestamp: 49:47–58:51
• The protests against the Citizenship Amendment Act (CAA) in Mumbai displayed new strategies of assembly and image-making, privileging uniqueness and individuality over rote mass mobilization.
• Protesters foregrounded unique, hand-made placards, intentionally distinguishing themselves from traditional, party-led rallies.
• The material of protest (paper, cāgas) became a site of political contestation, especially given the law’s reliance on documentary citizenship.
• Quote [56:25]:
  “The images that were circulating were not of the crowd itself, but were of the individual handcrafted placards...reflecting on the media, the material substance of representation was a really kind of rich way of unpacking this.” – Lisa Björkman

7. The Material Life and Semantic Power of Kagas (Paper)

• Timestamp: 58:51–65:46
• The poem “Hum Kagaz Nahi Dikhayenge” became an anthem during the CAA protests, positioning paper not only as a site of bureaucratic exclusion but also a medium of hope and resistance.
• Paper (kagas) has an ambivalent material life: it can exclude but also facilitate political claims, depending on context and usage.

8. The Sonic Register: Awaz and the Sensory Politics of Protest

• Timestamp: 65:46–75:41
• The role of “Awaz” (voice/sound) is explored in protest. Sonic and visual registers become means of representing individuality within collective acts.
• Organizers encouraged placard-making over chanting to avoid co-optation or misrepresentation; hand-written signs visually fixed a personal “voice.”
• Quote [67:43]:
  “Our Awaz is sharper than your batons…But the image…was one girl…her lips were closed. She actually wasn’t speaking in the sound. She was…articulating her personal perspective in some other way.” – Lisa Björkman
• Awaz encompasses both sonic and visual communication, challenging Western separations of voice and sound, rationality and noise.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:37] – “...everyone is communicating in a kind of theatrical, performance, affective way...” – Lisa Björkman
• [07:01] – “If everyone is in agreement that the crowd gathering is a variety of shows, then rather than say, oh, why is liberalism broken? We have to ask, well, what is being shown and to whom?” – Lisa Björkman
• [19:22] – “The point isn’t the cash. The point is the spectacle...what is being shown.” – Lisa Björkman
• [33:34] – “Not that they were fake, but that they were a performance and an enactment of political authority and of the ability to commit acts of violence with impunity.” – Lisa Björkman
• [43:24] – “The size of the public will be the size of the image.” – Mumbai resident (cited by Björkman)
• [56:25] – “Reflecting on the media, the material substance of representation was a really kind of rich way of unpacking this.” – Lisa Björkman
• [67:43] – “She wasn’t speaking in the sound. She was articulating her personal perspective in some other way.” – Lisa Björkman

Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 01:03 — Origins of the book’s interest in crowds and political form
• 09:29 — History and Western genealogy of representation
• 15:31 — Money, contractors, and performances of network/power
• 29:48 — Dramatic performance vs. deception and violence as staged power
• 40:48 — Bollywood, film, and the “image” as public
• 49:47 — CAA protests, uniqueness of placards, and performance (in both form and content)
• 58:51 — Kagaz (paper) as material and symbol in citizenship contestation
• 65:46 — Awaz (voice), sensory politics, and individuality within collective action
• 75:41 — Reflections on the book’s style and invitation to rethink political analysis

Podcast Flow and Tone

The discussion is nuanced, reflective, and richly ethnographic. Lisa Björkman and Raghavi Vishwanath speak with clarity, curiosity, and critical engagement, balancing theoretical depth with grounded anecdotes. The episode retains a scholarly yet accessible tone, making complex ideas about democratic performance, materiality, and representation approachable for listeners inside and outside academia.

Takeaways

• Mumbai’s political life invites a rethinking of what “democracy” looks like, theorizing political performance beyond Western canons.
• Material, sonic, performative, and affective registers—not just legal and institutional frameworks—are central to democratic action and legitimacy.
• The forms (shows, money, violence, kagas, awaaz) are not incidental but constitutive of Indian democracy’s drama, offering conceptual vocabularies for understanding politics worldwide.