Episode Overview

Podcast: New Books Network
Host: New Books (Robert Boynton introducing archival content)
Episode: Lukas Foss: A "New American Music Series" Gallatin Lecture, April 15, 1982
Date: January 15, 2026

This episode presents an archival lecture by the eminent American composer and conductor Lukas Foss, as part of NYU’s New American Music series. Foss explores the evolution of contemporary American music, with reflections on musical minimalism, serialism, aleatory, improvisation, and his own compositional journey. The talk offers an insider’s lens on avant-garde music-making, the philosophical challenges of modern composition, and candid, often humorous, insights into the composer’s own development and creative ethos.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Rise and Appeal of Minimalism

• Fashion and Functionality in Minimalism
  • Foss notes the coincidental relevance of Steve Reich and Philip Glass as upcoming speakers, referencing them as the “fountain fathers of the minimal trend” (02:52).
  • Minimalism’s broad appeal is attributed to its meditative repetition, hypnotic beat, and connection to popular music, such as disco:

    "The beat, the repetition, suggests meditation, hypnosis, and even a certain closeness to disco... what we have here is a kind of flirtation with popular music, which was definitely not in 15 years ago." (02:59)

  • He speculates that composers’ embrace of minimalism may stem from a desire to escape the “ivory tower” of academic music, seeking broader connection (03:25).

2. Serialism, Chance Music, and Their Intersection

• Origins and Impact of Serialism
  • Foss recounts how the twelve-tone method, initiated by Schoenberg, offered a way to limit overwhelming compositional choice—a search for unity and order.
  • He observes how serialism and chance (aleatory) music both utilize pre-compositional ‘setups’ that enable the composer to work with surprises and unfamiliar musical material.

    “They also set up something that yields surprises... So it's not surprising then that chance music and serial music actually sound very often very much alike.” (06:18)

• Critique of Routine and Texture
  • Music built solely on texture or random processes can become monotonous:

    "We heard piece after piece that was nothing but textures. I think that soon we understood that there was more to music than texture and that we wanted meaning." (08:07)

3. Foss’s Own Musical Journey

• Early Training and Influences
  • Began composing at age seven; studied with Hindemith at 17; struggled with the tension of learning from Hindemith while absorbing Stravinsky.
  • “I was a pretty bad boy in class and he threw me out three times. Always took me back. I don't know why.” (10:21)
• Improvisation and ‘Instant Composition’
  • Inspired by envy of jazz, Foss initiated improvisation workshops focused on non-jazz improvisation—created extensive rules, then abandoned them for a freer ‘instant composition’ method.

    “Something very different, which could be called instant composition... I would make some kind of a blueprint and then we would start to improvise.” (13:45)

  • The process included group improvisation followed by editing, refining, and ultimately letting go of pieces that had ‘found their shape.’

4. Navigating Schools of Thought—Freedom over Dogma

• Foss describes himself as perpetually outside of any “school,” rejecting strict adherence to serialism, aleatoricism, or minimalism in favor of eclecticism and freedom:

  “Nothing I wrote ever fit into any school. I just never belonged. ... I think the reason for that is that it was too limiting.” (17:41)

• He notes, however, that many composers thrive creatively by “making themselves at home in one small area and making the most of it,” acknowledging the value of “more with less” for some (22:26).

5. The Role of Meaning, Surprise, and “Happiness” in Music

• Foss distinguishes between feeling good and true happiness in musical experience:

  "What makes you feel good is a little bit like a drug. ... But there is perhaps something wrong, namely, after it wears off, you're left exactly where you were before. That's what I don't like about feeling good. When you create happiness, you build something, and you are not left where you were before." (26:20)

• He is skeptical of art that doesn’t impart lasting insight or build meaning, stressing that the real value of music is in creating transformative understanding.
• He places great importance on the “element of surprise”—not just for novelty, but as a key to meaningful, inevitable musical moments:

  "The only interesting surprise, valid surprise, is this kind of surprise, which once it has happened, you say to yourself, but of course, now how are you going to find that? That's what we usually call an inspiration." (31:23)

6. Commentary on Sound, Technology, and Amplification

• Foss draws attention to music’s interplay with technology (especially amplification), warning that while music itself cannot cause harm, technology can (e.g., hearing loss from loud music).

  “Music itself cannot do harm. Technology can, and I think we ought to be very much aware of that fact.” (34:55)

• He discusses the modern desire to be “enveloped” by sound, noting its powerful effects and new challenges.

7. Works and Anecdotes

• Shares compositional process behind Round, a Common Center—commissioned for the Olympic Games, evolving through multiple versions to accommodate different instruments and performers, including narration by Orson Welles and performance by Yehudi Menuhin (35:44).

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Minimalism’s Limits and Value:

  “I see limitations when you do decide that you're just going to repeat over and over again. But I'm sure the next speakers will enlighten you better than I can on that subject.” (23:27)

• On the Compositional Process:

  "I surrounded myself with millions of notes that were all obtained serially... and then I began to clear the jungle for inhabitants. And that was composing to me." (19:21)

• On Improvisation’s Shortcomings:

  “You literally play what you know. You don't play what you don't know. It's almost impossible to play what you don't know, right? So therefore you fall into cliche and you become a real performer. It's literally composition become performance.” (16:42)

• On Educational Value in Music:

  “I'm terribly afraid of any discipline that doesn't teach you a real insight. ... I really believe in education. I think that's why we study Shakespeare, Mozart, Beethoven.” (27:55)

• On Musical Meaning:

  “But when we hear a great piece of music, new or old, we come out with that thing that I was speaking about before. Building happiness could also say building meaning. We suddenly understand something that we didn't understand before.” (30:22)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 02:52 – Lukas Foss begins: on minimalism, its appeal, and popular music influences.
• 06:18 – On serialism and chance music, their similarities, and the nature of musical surprises.
• 10:21 – Foss narrates his studies with Hindemith and Stravinsky’s influence.
• 13:45 – Discussion of improvisation, instant composition, and the creative editing process.
• 17:41 – On rejecting musical schools and crafting his own path.
• 22:26 – The value and challenge of focusing creativity in a single musical area.
• 26:20 – Feeling good vs. creating happiness and transformational insights in music.
• 31:23 – The role and type of surprise as central to great musical art.
• 34:55 – On amplification, the impact of technology, and sensory experiences in music.
• 35:44 – Anecdotes about composing “Round, a Common Center.”
• 36:52 – Foss’s recommendations for listening: Beethoven, Mozart, Ives, Stravinsky; reluctance to name living composers; ends with a spontaneous Mozart minuet.
• 39:34 – Performance of the Mozart minuet.

Listening Recommendations

Q (36:52): "I'm curious whom you would suggest listening to."

• A (Lukas Foss):

  "If I were on a desert island and I had to...just one piece of music, maybe I would choose [Beethoven's] Grosse Fugue. ... How well do you know Mozart opera? ... He's our Shakespeare, right? ... Ives. Listen to...above all, don't get discouraged because some of it seems obscure."
  "When it comes to the alive people, I refuse to say, because I'll be leaving out more than I would put into my list." (36:57)

Concluding Moments

Foss closes by playing a minuet by Mozart, illustrating how profound surprises and complexity can co-exist in even the lightest musical forms, before the lecture audio fades out. (39:34-40:03)

Summary prepared for listeners seeking an insightful, spirited overview of Lukas Foss’s creative philosophy and the broader evolution of American contemporary music as experienced in this historic lecture.