Podcast Summary: Pathology of Plenty: Natural Resources in International Law
Podcast: New Books Network
Host: Raghavi Vishwanath
Guest: Lys Kulamadayil
Date: February 13, 2026
Main Theme and Episode Overview
This episode features a deep dive into Lys Kulamadayil’s book Pathology of Plenty: Natural Resources in International Law, published by Bloomsbury in 2025. The book critically examines the role of international law in resource-rich postcolonial countries, scrutinizing its part in both perpetuating and potentially remedying the “resource curse”—the phenomenon in which countries with abundant natural resources experience adverse outcomes such as conflict, corruption, and inequality. Through personal fieldwork, doctrinal analysis, and affective engagement, Kulamadayil interrogates the constitutive, preventive, remedial, and punitive functions of international law, challenging standard narratives and advocating for more interconnected and empathetic approaches to scholarship and advocacy.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Personal Motivation and Foundational Themes
[01:14–03:51]
- Kulamadayil traces her entry into the subject to interests in ecological and social justice, experiences during the Iraq invasion, and a realization that international law perspectives were missing from resource curse discussions.
- She highlights the need for a critical international law approach—moving from seeing law as a solution, to recognizing its complicity in perpetuating harm.
Notable Quote:
“I came to this topic with naivete, if I may say so about myself, of a fairly young student who was just really eager to understand why some things were going wrong in the world… I had at that point already realized that international law can often be part of the problem.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [02:07]
2. Methodology: Grounded, Affective, and Outside-In
[04:57–08:48]
- The book opens with a vignette rooted in Kulamadayil’s fieldwork in the Democratic Republic of Congo (Katanga), emphasizing the lived consequences of colonial continuities.
- The methodological decision to start with continuity was deliberate, rejecting explanations that individualize blame and anchoring inequalities in colonial creation, not contemporary failure.
Notable Quote:
“Not starting with that would have permitted for explanations that blame the people right now for the conditions they’re facing. And that is not the case. So... the conditions today are the result of colonially created patterns of inequality and power.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [11:02]
3. Emotions and Affect in Legal Scholarship
[13:02–15:52]
- Kulamadayil foregrounds affect (emotion) as integral to understanding and conveying the human cost of legal and economic phenomena, challenging the technicization of legal writing.
- There is an intentional use of affective language—chapter titles like "Hope of Plenty" and "Pain of Plenty" underscore the emotional landscape.
Notable Quote:
“Affect is an underrated part of legal thinking… The choice of affective language to some extent was my hope of having this relation and the solidarity shimmer through.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [13:29]
4. The “Crisis” Discourse in International Law
[15:52–21:01]
- The episode critiques the recurrent framing of international law as being in crisis, separating the discipline's anxieties from the real, ongoing crises experienced by communities and the planet.
- Kulamadayil questions the self-centeredness of this discourse and emphasizes the need for empathy, not self-pity, among legal scholars.
Notable Quotes:
“International law is not in crisis. Really, it’s not. However, most parts of the world are in crisis, and the planet is in crisis. These are two different things.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [19:45]
“I don’t think that we, as international lawyers or scholars, are entitled to be devastated… That’s just part of our profession’s responsibilities to have to deal with that and to have to make sense of that.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [17:15]
5. Interventions, Occupation, and Legal Domains
[21:01–27:26]
- Discussion moves to legal distinctions between intervention by force and occupation, especially regarding resource extraction in conflict zones (e.g., Israeli occupation of the Sinai, West Bank).
- The humanitarian intent behind principles like usufruct is contrasted with their co-option for economic exploitation, often cementing patterns of inequality far beyond the end of a conflict.
Notable Quotes:
“So there is a humanitarian intention for that principle. At the same time, it of course lends itself to co-optation… What is the public good has less protection while at the same time being the currency that the population under occupation will have eventually to rebuild their countries.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [24:36]
6. Self-Determination and Resource Sovereignty
[27:26–33:50]
- The principle of permanent sovereignty over natural resources and self-determination is unpacked, revealing its co-optation by postcolonial states and its complicated effects.
- While originally envisioned as empowering peoples, self-determination has often been instrumentalized by states themselves, sometimes distancing it from actual community benefit.
Notable Quote:
“From the very beginning it was clear that this right of peoples was co-opted by the state… which through that right also had a claim to governing the resources under its control… somewhat putting the idea of that principle on its head.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [30:13]
7. Shifting Notions of Sovereignty: Financial, Regulatory, Diffused Governance
[33:50–39:13]
- The guest’s favorite chapter analyzes how international money laundering and anti-corruption laws employ banks and civil society as enforcement actors, effectively deputizing financial institutions regardless of their incentives or complicity.
- This creates “infrastructures of grand theft” where resource plundering depends on global finance, not just local corruption.
Notable Quote:
“Grand theft… the ability to steal significant wealth from public coffers is only possible because the international financial system permits for this to happen. One couldn’t steal billions… if there was no infrastructure to do so.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [36:17]
8. Regional Alliances and Market Narratives
[39:13–42:14]
- Producer alliances (e.g., OPEC) and regional counterweights are often problematized only when challenging Global North interests, highlighting double standards in market regulation and intervention.
- There is a reluctance to critique interventions (like the US in Venezuela) as market disruptions, demonstrating underlying biases.
9. Carcerality and Punishment in Resource Extraction
[42:14–48:16]
- The discussion unpacks the limits of punitive responses: whistleblowers often face harsher punishment than perpetrators of grand theft, and criminal convictions channel blame toward individuals, masking systemic complicity.
- Carcerality (punitive logic) is shown to serve capitalism by scapegoating and allowing collective amnesia.
Notable Quote:
“Criminal law is actually very beneficial to capitalism because it does permit for the creation of scapegoats.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [47:37]
10. Human Rights and Its Ambiguous Promise
[48:16–51:37]
- The “Pain of Plenty” chapter explores human rights law’s dual role: offering language and legitimacy to marginalized communities but often resulting in only symbolic or limited victories and reinforcing individualization.
- Kulamadayil is skeptical that the environmentalization of human rights will address the deeper causes of “planned misery.”
Notable Quote:
“I remain very skeptical of the, let’s say, over-emphasizing of the victories won with the environmentalization of human rights… I’m not necessarily sure that this will provide an answer to some of the structural reasons of planned misery.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [50:42]
11. Silos, Fragmentation, and the Need for Intersectoral Dialogue
[51:37–56:32]
- Legal regimes (financial oversight, human rights, criminal law, etc.) generally operate in silos, each addressing only a fragment of the larger resource curse puzzle.
- Kulamadayil advocates for thinking and acting “against disciplinary boundaries and epistemic boundaries”—an argument for “intersectorality.”
12. Future Directions and Radical Traditions
[56:32–59:06]
- The book’s conclusion and Kulamadayil’s ongoing work promote alternative frameworks like Earth law and post-human feminism, inspired by scholars committed to challenging the siloed structure of international law.
- Future research will focus on structural racism in food and ecosystems, and amplifying voices from the Global South, particularly through new collaborative projects.
Notable Quote:
“As someone based in the West and at a Western institution, I certainly have the privilege of creating venues for those ideas to be seen and to be heard… The idea of this volume is really to give a platform for research, you know, inspired by some of the patterns that we’ve identified inflicting post colonial governments.”
—Lys Kulamadayil [60:07]
Memorable Moments & Quotes with Timestamps
- Opening motivation: “I came to this topic with naivete… eager to understand why some things were going wrong in the world.” [02:07]
- On colonial continuities: “It is not on the people living today. But the conditions today are the result of colonially created patterns of inequality and power.” [11:02]
- On affect: “The choice of affective language to some extent was my hope of having this relation and the solidarity shimmer through.” [13:29]
- On the crisis frame: “International law is not in crisis. Really, it’s not. However, most parts of the world are in crisis and the planet is in crisis.” [19:45]
- On self-determination: “From the very beginning it was clear that this right of peoples was co-opted by the state… putting the idea of that principle on its head.” [30:13]
- On financial complicity: “Grand theft… is only possible because the international financial system permits for this to happen.” [36:17]
- On criminality and capitalism: “Criminal law is actually very beneficial to capitalism because it does permit for the creation of scapegoats.” [47:37]
- On human rights limits: “I remain very skeptical of the… victories won with the environmentalization of human rights… Not necessarily sure that this will provide an answer to some of the structural reasons of planned misery.” [50:42]
- On the future of scholarship: “That’s where the future lies, right?… helping us get away from our siloed ways of thinking.” [57:25]
Timestamps for Important Segments
- [01:14] – Personal motivations and early impressions
- [04:57] – Methodological choices and fieldwork in Congo
- [13:02] – Discussion of affect in legal scholarship
- [15:52] – Resource-driven interventions & the logic of “civilization”
- [19:45] – Debunking the “international law in crisis” narrative
- [21:01] – Legal domains: force, occupation, and resource extraction
- [30:13] – Self-determination’s complex legacy
- [33:50] – Financial institutions and the facilitation of corruption
- [39:13] – Regional alliances, OPEC, and market biases
- [43:45] – Carcerality and scapegoating in punitive regimes
- [49:00] – Limits and uses of human rights language
- [53:29] – Persistent legal silos and the need for intersectorality
- [56:32] – New directions: earth law, post-humanism, and intersectoral thinking
- [59:06] – Future projects: racism, food, and platforming Southern scholarship
Flow & Tone
The conversation is intellectually rich yet accessible, blending rigorous critique with personal narrative and emotional resonance. Kulamadayil maintains humility about the limits of her position and emphasizes empathy, solidarity, and the importance of dialogue across boundaries—whether disciplinary, epistemic, or geopolitical.
Conclusion
The episode not only elucidates the arguments of Pathology of Plenty but also offers an inspiring example of scholarship that refuses to be satisfied with legalism or technocratic fixes when confronting systemic harm. It calls listeners to see international law’s role in resource-rich countries as multifaceted—at times complicit, at times remedial, but always requiring critical, empathetic scrutiny. It also points to the continuing need to break disciplinary silos, foreground affect, and center the experiences and insights of those most impacted by legal and economic regimes.